Victron DC-DC 50a charger (1 Viewer)

[Roger S]

In our van we have our 230a Fogstar battery, the van uses a Lippert WA121525 charger and although I changed the settings to Lithium I have read on here from Lenny and others that these chargers are not great for Lithium, so I am thinking about changing the charger to the new 50a Victron unit. Would it be a simple swap ? the cables going into the fitted charger are 4mm diameter including the insulation so I assume this is 6mm2 there is no indication on the cables.

Thanks Roger

 

[barsteward]

In our van we have our 230a Fogstar battery, the van uses a Lippert WA121525 charger and although I changed the settings to Lithium I have read on here from Lenny and others that these chargers are not great for Lithium, so I am thinking about changing the charger to the new 50a Victron unit. Would it be a simple swap ? the cables going into the fitted charger are 4mm diameter including the insulation so I assume this is 6mm2 there is no indication on the cables.

Thanks Roger

I am not knowledgable but in a similar situation myself. You can glean some very usefull information from https://offgridpower.solutions/ they recommend for their installations 25mm but say 16mm would be perfectly adiquate under normal run lengths. I think

Oh and you also get a 10% Funster discount. bargin

 

[Lenny HB]

In our van we have our 230a Fogstar battery, the van uses a Lippert WA121525 charger and although I changed the settings to Lithium I have read on here from Lenny and others that these chargers are not great for Lithium, so I am thinking about changing the charger to the new 50a Victron unit. Would it be a simple swap ? the cables going into the fitted charger are 4mm diameter including the insulation so I assume this is 6mm2 there is no indication on the cables.

Thanks Roger

Cables sound far too small cable size is dependant on length of cable.
16mm² is just about acceptable for up to 2m.

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[Roger S]

Cables sound far too small cable size is dependant on length of cable.
16mm² is just about acceptable for up to 2m.

The current charger is in the garage so it would be quite a run to the front. The leisure battery is behind the passengers seat so I suppose I could fit the new charger next to the leisure battery where there is also a live cable from the engine battery that was connected to the solar charger before I changed it to a Vitron MPPT ?

 

[RogerIvy]

Victron recommend 16mm up to 5m, 25mm over 5m
The XS takes a max of 25mm cable (without ferrules which don’t fit - must be bare cable)

 

[Two on Tour]

Cables sound far too small cable size is dependant on length of cable.
16mm² is just about acceptable for up to 2m.

16mm2 at 14 volts over a 5 meter length at 50 amp give a voltage drop of 3% (13.58v) which in my view is acceptable.

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[Roger S]

Is there any reason why I cannot fit the new charger near to the leisure batteries, ie might the existing unit connect to something else on the way ?

 

[Lenny HB]

Is there any reason why I cannot fit the new charger near to the leisure batteries, ie might the existing unit connect to something else on the way ?

Much better position that is where I would fit it.

 

[Lenny HB]

Victron recommend 16mm up to 5m, 25mm over 5m
The XS takes a max of 25mm cable (without ferrules which don’t fit - must be bare cable)

Why? Surely ferrules will give a much better connections, I always try to avoid cable into terminal blocks.

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[Roger S]

Much better position that is where I would fit.

Thats great thank you

 

[Two on Tour]

Why? Surely ferrules will give a much better connections, I always try to avoid are cabl. Es into terminal blocks.

I agree with using ferrules were you can, which I do, but the Victron XS 50a B2B data sheet states "Maximum cable cross-section 4AWG (21.2mm2)", but 25mm2 will go into the terminals, just, but 25mm2 with a bootlace ferrule will not.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Why? Surely ferrules will give a much better connections, I always try to avoid are cabl. Es into terminal blocks.

"are cabl. Es"

Well its 12 o'clock somewhere !

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[Lenny HB]

"are cabl. Es"

Well its 12 o'clock somewhere !

It's my stupid tablet, often throws wobblies when typing.

 

[autorouter]

16mm2 at 14 volts over a 5 meter length at 50 amp give a voltage drop of 3% (13.58v) which in my view is acceptable.

Is that the one-way voltage drop, or the 2-way (flow and return)? I get 4.5% for the flow and return 5m length. But that doesn't allow for return flow along the chassis, which is a bit hard to calculate but would be quite low anyway. For a one-way length of 5m it's 2.25%.

 

[Two on Tour]

Is that the one-way voltage drop, or the 2-way (flow and return)? I get 4.5% for the flow and return 5m length. But that doesn't allow for return flow along the chassis, which is a bit hard to calculate but would be quite low anyway. For a one-way length of 5m it's 2.25%.

I use this wire sizing calculator as guide for cable runs in the past.

Wire Sizing Calculator

Wire Buying Guide

explorist.life

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[autorouter]

I use this wire sizing calculator as guide for cable runs in the past.

I'd recommend the voltage drop calculator on the 12VoltPlanet website. I have my own spreadsheet that calculates these values from first principles and this calculator agrees well with it, having tried it for several values.

The one in your link doesn't seem to agree with this, unless I have missed some setting somewhere. It gives a drop from 14V to 13.58 (3%) for 10AWG wire, which is 5.26 mm².

The 12VoltPlanet calculator gives a voltage drop from 14V to 13.22V (5.61%) for 6mm² wire, which is slightly thicker than 10AWG

 

[Two on Tour]

I'd recommend the voltage drop calculator on the 12VoltPlanet website. I have my own spreadsheet that calculates these values from first principles and this calculator agrees well with it, having tried it for several values.

The one in your link doesn't seem to agree with this, unless I have missed some setting somewhere. It gives a drop from 14V to 13.58 (3%) for 10AWG wire, which is 5.26 mm².

The 12VoltPlanet calculator gives a voltage drop from 14V to 13.22V (5.61%) for 6mm² wire, which is slightly thicker than 10AWG

The figures I inputted for using the Victron XS B2B with a little under 5 metres (the calculator is American so the length is in feet) returned 6 AWG (16mm2)

 

[autorouter]

the calculator is American so the length is in feet)

That's what I missed - it doesn't say the units.

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[Two on Tour]

That's what I missed - it doesn't say the units.

I hovered over the little " i " in the blue dot above the length box.

I'm always wary of the Yank's oddball units.

 

[RogerIvy]

Why? Surely ferrules will give a much better connections, I always try to avoid cable into terminal blocks.

I think the question has already been answered, but just to be clear we’d prefer using ferrules. But that 25mm cable is a very snug fit without a ferrule.

 

[AdrianChen]

I think the question has already been answered, but just to be clear we’d prefer using ferrules. But that 25mm cable is a very snug fit without a ferrule.

Having finally got round to installing the XS, I found that using OceanFlex cable both the 25mm and 16mm were very secure and the rounded end to the grub screw seems to "mould" the filaments without tearing them (re-tightened after 10mins). All my current ferules seemed to block the cable grip cover/device.

Need to get some from you guys!

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[tinkertaylor]

You don't have to run the whole lot in 25mm, you can run say 5m in it then into a terminal and out of that in say 16mm for a very short length, say 100mm.

Just make sure the voltage drop is calculated for both runs and then combined and it doesn't exceed the percentage your aiming for.

 

[autorouter]

All my current ferules seemed to block the cable grip cover/device.

Is it the plastic insulated bit that blocks the cable grip? You can get uninsulated ferrules, or just cut the plastic bit off the insulated ones.

 

[AdrianChen]

Is it the plastic insulated bit that blocks the cable grip? You can get uninsulated ferrules, or just cut the plastic bit off the insulated ones.

Thanks, Just tried it at home - gentle tap and the plastic slid off! Will get the pin type for 25mm I guess.

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[RogerIvy]

Is it the plastic insulated bit that blocks the cable grip? You can get uninsulated ferrules, or just cut the plastic bit off the insulated ones.

For 16mm and 25mm ferrules we don’t use the plastic ones. Just a pure metal sleeve.

 

[Lenny HB]

Would these type be OK.

 

[RogerIvy]

Would these type be OK.

View attachment 880253

Pins do work. You have to tighten them pretty hard because they’re quite rigid, and if you move the cable about a bit after fastening you can shift them (make them slightly loose). They’re not like a regular ferrules or bare cable that is a bit “soft” so it all beds in really well. With these pins once everything is done it’s a good idea to do one final check.

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[AdrianChen]

Pins do work. You have to tighten them pretty hard because they’re quite rigid, and if you move the cable about a bit after fastening you can shift them (make them slightly loose). They’re not like a regular ferrules or bare cable that is a bit “soft” so it all beds in really well. With these pins once everything is done it’s a good idea to do one final check.

Interesting - I would prefer the bootlace type, but my tool only goes up to 16mm, and at 25mm with good flexy cable it all seems OK and secure. Victron spec is for 0.4mm, mine was 0.3mm

I seem to have a load of assorted tools crimps/terminals/rivnuts/washer assortments etc bought to do a job, now festering in the garage, so loath to get any more!

 

[Two on Tour]

Interesting - I would prefer the bootlace type, but my tool only goes up to 16mm, and at 25mm with good flexy cable it all seems OK and secure. Victron spec is for 0.4mm, mine was 0.3mm

I seem to have a load of assorted tools crimps/terminals/rivnuts/washer assortments etc bought to do a job, now festering in the garage, so loath to get any more!

I have bought some of these copper tube pin terminals the experiment with in the round Victron XS cable entry terminals.
I liked that they have a bigger cross section than the flat type pin terminals but I'm wondering how much actual contact area they will actually have with the XS cable terminals when screw down.

DBG Heavy Duty Copper Tube Pin Terminal 16mm² Cable Pack of 10 | eBay

Cable Size 16mm². Brass/copper construction with tinned finish. Plating Bright electro Tin. Body Material Copper. Range Dun-Bri Approved. Manufacturer’s Part Number 551. Approvals UL; CE; CCC; RoHS.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Lenny HB]

I have bought some of these copper tube pin terminals the experiment with in the round Victron XS cable entry terminals.
I liked that they have a bigger cross section than the flat type pin terminals but I'm wondering how much actual contact area they will actually have with the XS cable terminals when screw down.

DBG Heavy Duty Copper Tube Pin Terminal 16mm² Cable Pack of 10 | eBay

Cable Size 16mm². Brass/copper construction with tinned finish. Plating Bright electro Tin. Body Material Copper. Range Dun-Bri Approved. Manufacturer’s Part Number 551. Approvals UL; CE; CCC; RoHS.

www.ebay.co.uk

I've looked at them but thought you would get a better contact area with the screw with the other type.

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