Vauxhall vivaro stalling and giving P0380 OBD2 code?

[Gromett]

No that’s correct.
I was told when I hade a Vivaro change the filter every year to check for fine metal in the filter due to pump issues.

If the filter was before and the pump let go it will contaminate the whole system.
So that would be injectors, fuel lines including return and your tank.

I know someone this happened to, cost thousands to sort out.

I have just gone out and checked...

I started the engine and felt how stiff the bulb/hand pump was. If it was pressurised it would be rock solid but it is just the same.
I am certain that the pump is after the filter with the filter protecting the pump.

I am not saying I am definitely right on this, I am no mechanic. But seems like it.

 

[Gromett]

I just looked in my Haynes manual and couldn't find a schematic and thought they must do one. So googled it.

Found this image from the service manual. This looks exactly like what I have in my van. the bends all look the same
so this suggests filter before pump.

I am grateful Silver-Fox however, as I wouldn't have thought to look for this diagram and have found a service manual

And I just went and paid £15 to a scam site for the full manual. didn't realise it was a scam until I paid. They are ripping off various manuals they have trawled off the internet. Not going to fight it, life is too short and I got the manual.

But this screen shot confirms the other end of the pipe that comes off the filter goes to the high pressure pump.

I do appreciate your help and advice on this, been an interesting learning experience.

 

[Landy Andy]

I don’t know these vans. But my thoughts would be tank to filter then to pump. Engines that have a low pressure pump in the tank don’t tend to have a manual pump, only ones without.
As said no experience of this engine and haven’t read all the posts.

 

[Gromett]

But my thoughts would be tank to filter then to pump.

I have just been out to van and confirmed diagrams are correct. Tank to filter to hp pump is correct

It also massively simplifies what I need to look for to find the leak.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I am grateful @Silver-Fox however, as I wouldn't have thought to look for this diagram and have found a service manual

Gromett glad your moving in the right direction

A virtual pint of cider will do me, maybe a Thatchers or similar

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[Landy Andy]

If you think a joint or junction is drawing in air you can smother it in grease or Vaseline to stop it as a temporary thing.

 

[chesterfield hooligan]

Fuel tank low pressure pump

 

[jockaneezer]

Those primer bulbs are a great culprit for drawing in air.

 

[TheBig1]

The problem is that this is not a big leak, just enough to slowly leak air in over 24/48 hours. Usual culprit is the filter housing or the priming pump

 

[Gromett]

ok. So I last went out in it on Thur at 2pm
I was just about to start it and I thought I would bleed it to see how much air had gotten in during that time. Thur 2pm to Sat 8am so 42 hours ish. which would be more than enough.
There was no air when I pumped the bulb. So as I was driving down I had a thought. They did the MOT at the end of January and it was too much longer after that that I started having problems.
At that MOT I had a service which included the fuel filter. I am wondering if they didn't tighten the bleed valve enough and it has slowly come loose?

Anyway, I went shopping with a slight spring in my step.

Came back out to the van and turned the key on. The dashboard lit up as normal for around ¼ of a second then everything went dead. No power to any system. courtesy lights, door locks nothing.
It was like a main fuse had blown or the battery was disconnected.

The local garage was only 400 or so yards away so went round to them. But they don't do out patient care even that close. The best he could offer me was a battery booster. I doubted it was that but it was a last gasp before having to call a mobile mechanic or recovery service.

I am not sure if messing with the battery terminals or the booster or it just needed a timeout but it came to life. I got it home. I turn the ignition off and on again and bunch of times and couldn't repeat it.

Anyway, to cut a long story short. I have lost all faith in the van and I am going to start making my plans to replace it.

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[Gromett]

Jim kindly lent me a spare 12v battery. Had it on charge overnight. Then at 6am this morning swapped the charger over to the van battery. I was gobsmacked. The charger didn't immediately go up the led bars. and now 3 hours later is still on the 4th bar.
That battery is either goosed or something is pulling it down. But seems I don't have yet another problem with the van only a battery problem. Wow, they keeping coming one after another though lol.

 

[Gromett]

Just dug the manual out. I misread the front panel. 4 is good it is the Absorption stage. Although it has since (last 15 minutes) gone through 5 and is now in stage 6 which is the reconditioning phase.

So not sure now. Grr.

 

[Gromett]

I had a few ideas so went to do glass recycling run. When I turn the ignition on the voltage starts at one level then quickly drops .5V. Although it does turnover faster now and starts a touch quicker.

There was a little hesitation occasionally when driving back. So before I switched the engine off I popped the bonnet and looked at the clear bit of pipe between the fuel filter and the HP pump. there were air bubbles going through and this was after a 2 mile run.
So... There is definitely air getting into the fuel supply line from somewhere.

I will replace the filter when it arrives and the seals (2 off them) which should come with the new filter and see if that sorts it. If not, may have to get a mechanic in to look at it for me as I really don't fancy stripping out the fuel lines myself

 

[Diabalo]

Gromett I would be looking at the suction side of things at the low pressure pump, the take up pipe may be split and drawing in air or split plastic on the LP pump. I would have thought if it was on the pressure side it would be a diesel leak not air.

 

[Gromett]

Gromett I would be looking at the suction side of things at the low pressure pump, the take up pipe may be split and drawing in air or split plastic on the LP pump. I would have thought if it was on the pressure side it would be a diesel leak not air.

It's not on the high pressure side. It is somewhere between the fuel tank and the high pressure pump.
I think due to there being air in the fuel filter this further narrows it down to the pipe between the tank and the filter including the filter housing which apparently is known for this.

I am not going to be dropping the tank myself as it is full of diesel, I don't really have the location to do it nor the tools really.

So, replacing the filter and the seals is about as far as I can take it. Then it will be off to a mechanic to sort unfortunately. But at least I am confident I know the cause now.

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[Gromett]

So I replaced the fuel filter which was a surprisingly easy job after watching 4 youtube videos. Each of the 4 videos missed something or a step. or didn't know a trick. Combined the 4 videos made the job a doddle.

I primed the filter using the hand pump then started the engine. Not a single bit of air in the pipe now. Hmmm.

So I looked at the seal. There was a groove in the seal that spiralled in and where it went over the inner edge there was grit and dirt.

It looks like the seal wasn't installed correctly perhaps and was allowing air in. The screw was also extremely tight a lot more than the 6Nm recommended on the lid.

I suspect the mechanic who did the last filter change didn't know the whole housing comes out by pressing a metal clip at the back of the housing. Makes the job dead easy.

Anyway. I am not counting my chickens just yet. But my hopes are very, very slightly raised.

The fact that even after driving 2 miles there was air bubbles in the clear bit of pipe and now there isn't even after just starting...

Well, will have to take it out for a test in a bit, but sometimes it goes ok for days then fails. I will probably have to park it up for 3 days and then see how it does.

 

[Gromett]

Forgot to report back. Took it out for two test drives.

Starting up the first time it turned over for a second before starting so I started to worry a bit. But it may have just been residual air in the filter etc working it way through.
The 2nd test, no such problem and I then left it for a few hours and then started the engine again and again no problems. Each test I did I looked for air in pipe before and after the drive and never saw a single bubble.

Also the hesitancy has stopped and it appears to have a bit more umph to it.

Tomorrow I will take it for a longer drive and get stocked up on food. Then will park it up for at least 3 days. That will be the ultimate test.

 

[Gromett]

Yesterdays test drives were in the local village 1 mile out and 1 mile back.

Today I drove to mablethorpe which is 4 miles there and 4 back, but it is all at 30mph. So I took a detour on the way back and risked it. Performance is markedly improved. I think this problem has been developing for quite some time so I checked when I did the fuel filter last and it wasn't January just gone it was the previous January so 18 months. This is about when I started to notice that the van wasn't quite as performant as it used to be up the Alford hill. I just presumed it was partly due to age/wear and partly due to increased load in the back. Apparently it may have been that badly fitted fuel filter seal????

Anyway, Checked for air bubbles before I drove off and when I got back and not a single one. I am now stocked up on food so will leave the van to sit for 3 days. Final test on Saturday if it is all ok and no bubbles I am going to call this solved.

The P0380 code was a red herring. Still needs sorting, but nothing to do with the cutting out. P0380 will make it harder to start in winter so I am going to get it sorted anyway next after the brakes are all done.

So thanks to everyone who offered recommendations and suggestions. They were much appreciated.

 

[Gromett]

I think this is as close to confirming I have cured it as I can get without building confidence over time.
I popped the bonnet and started the van, it started instantly and I got to the clear bit of pipe in under a second and no bubbles at all.
The van is much more responsive, noticeably so.
So. Instant start, No cut out and no bubbles. That is all 3 symptoms gone.

What was reported on the dash as an injector problem and in the OBD2 as a heater coil problem was in fact a badly installed fuel filter seal.

I will be doing basic maintenance myself in future. Not sure I can trust the local garage with things like brakes any more if they can't even change a fuel filter without cocking it up. This is on top of other warning signals and mistakes in the past.
I think may be their young lad who is cocking up. The senior guys all appear competent so I suspect it is luck of the draw.

Anyway, Thanks again to all those who offered advice. It was very much appreciated.

 

[Gromett]

ok. Big long drives yesterday, with multiple stops. Never skipped a beat. I think it is solved I am a happy chappy again

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[Gromett]

So 2 months on and most definitely confirmed fixed now. Also the other problem has not repeated itself either. Turns out it was the plate that has all the fuses on mounted to the positive terminal of the battery OR it was the negative terminal. Not quite sure which but I cleaned up and tightened both and not had that issue again.