Uprating front coils on Fiat Ducato

[MisterB]

Having finished my rear air assist, i have been informed i need to uprate the front coils in order to get to a max of 4000kg. As it stands with just the air assist, i can get approval for 3850kg, tyres and wheels are fine - wheels are 130mm stud distance, so are the heavier 'maxi' wheel apparently.

My dilemma is that im not sure that i think its worth paying close to £800 (supplied and fitted) for 150kg extra !!! of course if i need it to be legal then i would do it, if i couldnt reduce the weight of what we are carrying.

my first job in the morning is off to the weighbridge to see what actual weight we are ( i will make allowances/additions for water, passenger etc so as to have a more accurate estimation of actual weight)

can anyone point me in the direction of some suitable/well priced front coils please so i can try to bring the price down to something that is a bit more palatable IF the actual 'weigh in' requires it.......

thanks

 

[Happy Jack]

Check out Killen 12205 springs on Ebay, approx £150 a pair.Fitted them myself. Definitely uprated, increased my ride height by 50mm. Make sure you go to a double plate weigbridge that will be able to do individual axle weights.

 

[Googlebot]

You need to check on a weighbridge as Happy Jack suggests.

The extra 150KG will be useless if you can't shift the weight forward onto the front axle.

My van is an example of this. The gross weight is now 3850 KG, front axle limit is 1850 and the rear 2000. Previously it was maximum gross weight of 3500.

However the rear axle used to weigh about 1900 and the front 1600. By uprating it, effectively I only gained 100KG extra on the rear axle and 250KG on the front. I have to try very hard to move weight forwards and couldn't ever hope to move 250KG worth.

Added to that the garage is massive and the overhang means the more I add to the back, the more I unload the front due to the pendulum effect.

In short, I wouldn't bother as you probably won't use it, but would also double check on a weighbridge.

 

[MisterB]

Check out Killen 12205 springs on Ebay, approx £150 a pair.Fitted them myself. Definitely uprated, increased my ride height by 50mm. Make sure you go to a double plate weigbridge that will be able to do individual axle weights.



thanks, i did spot them and have left a question - i would have a go at fitting them myself but the weather isnt too good - local garage said 2.5 hours each side, which did surprise me as they have all the gear .......

SV have told me they can complete the uprate from 3850 to 4000 if i get the HD coils - so its very much a cost versus benefit issue at the moment !!!

 

[Googlebot]

local garage said 2.5 hours each side, which did surprise me as they have all the gear .......

I didn't think it was that long.

You do have to take part of the dashboard and auxillary fusebox out though to access the top mounts, it isn't as easy as some cars are unfortunately. My shocks were an advisory on the MOT so am preparing to change them when the weather warms up.

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[MisterB]

You do have to take part of the dashboard and auxillary fusebox out though to access the top mounts, it isn't as easy as some cars are unfortunately.

that seems to make more sense with regards to the labour price ...!

 

[Happy Jack]

Check out Killen 12205 springs on Ebay, approx £150 a pair.Fitted them myself. Definitely uprated, increased my ride height by 50mm. Make sure you go to a double plate weigbridge that will be able to do individual axle weights.



thanks, i did spot them and have left a question - i would have a go at fitting them myself but the weather isnt too good - local garage said 2.5 hours each side, which did surprise me as they have all the gear .......

SV have told me they can complete the uprate from 3850 to 4000 if i get the HD coils - so its very much a cost versus benefit issue at the moment !!!

It's quite an involved job, removing them needs a fair few components to be removed then coil spring compressors to get old springs off and new springs on the struts(shock absorbers).
What year is your van? It can be false economy to fit just springs. I also fitted KYB gas struts.
How much does your local garage charge per hour?
Night be worth getting a price off them if you do have to uptate.

 

[Happy Jack]

I didn't think it was that long.

You do have to take part of the dashboard and auxillary fusebox out though to access the top mounts, it isn't as easy as some cars are unfortunately. My shocks were an advisory on the MOT so am preparing to change them when the weather warms up.

Hi googlebot.
Always done my own maint on cars so didnt hesitate to do the job on my Ducato MWB. Had one almost disaster, left side drive shaft "popped" out and lost some oil.
Lucky it went straight back in.
Anyway, did one side each day, about 4-5 hours each day taking it steady.
Believe though that the garage quoted time is quite good.

 

[Googlebot]

Hi googlebot.
Always done my own maint on cars so didnt hesitate to do the job on my Ducato MWB. Had one almost disaster, left side drive shaft "popped" out and lost some oil.
Lucky it went straight back in.
Anyway, did one side each day, about 4-5 hours each day taking it steady.
Believe though that the garage quoted time is quite good.

Thanks for that, I will be doing it as well.

It’s done nearly 80,000 miles so to be fair, the gearbox is probably coming off as well and the clutch being changed. If it’s in the air with driveshafts dangling, most of the work is already done to get the box off.

 

[Landy Andy]

local garage said 2.5 hours each side, which did surprise me as they have all the gear

They will look up on their system as to the job time, and quote on that, unless they know the job.

It can be a bit of a pig of a job being party inside (they will be worried about interior), and outside. Including removing the fuse box, which has security bolts holding a frame over it.

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[Happy Jack]

Check out Killen 12205 springs on Ebay, approx £150 a pair.Fitted them myself. Definitely uprated, increased my ride height by 50mm. Make sure you go to a double plate weigbridge that will be able to do individual axle weights.



thanks, i did spot them and have left a question - i would have a go at fitting them myself but the weather isnt too good - local garage said 2.5 hours each side, which did surprise me as they have all the gear .......

SV have told me they can complete the uprate from 3850 to 4000 if i get the HD coils - so its very much a cost versus benefit issue at the moment !!!

If your van is already 3850 is it a LWB?

 

[Happy Jack]

They will look up on their system as to the job time, and quote on that, unless they know the job.

It can be a bit of a pig of a job being party inside (they will be worried about interior), and outside. Including removing the fuse box, which has security bolts holding a frame over it.

Yes Landy the bits inside arnt straightforward.
Glove box side dead easy, but fuse box one of the "rivet" type security bolts has to be drilled out.

 

[Landy Andy]

Yes Landy the bits inside arnt straightforward.
Glove box side dead easy, but fuse box one of the "rivet" type security bolts has to be drilled out.

It didn’t take me that long but it wasn’t a joyful job. Especially when drive shift fell out piddling all my gearbox oil out

 

[Googlebot]

It didn’t take me that long but it wasn’t a joyful job. Especially when drive shift fell out piddling all my gearbox oil out

This is what’s telling me to just do the clutch. So many people saying this happens. :-(

 

[MisterB]

It's quite an involved job, removing them needs a fair few components to be removed then coil spring compressors to get old springs off and new springs on the struts(shock absorbers).
What year is your van? It can be false economy to fit just springs. I also fitted KYB gas struts.
How much does your local garage charge per hour?
Night be worth getting a price off them if you do have to uptate.

2018 van, 20000 miles - im hoping the weighbridge will give me a clearer idea of which way to go ...

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[MisterB]

Yes Landy the bits inside arnt straightforward.
Glove box side dead easy, but fuse box one of the "rivet" type security bolts has to be drilled out.

i will get a definite quote if o go ahead, dont want to be adding to the bill if i go for it!

 

[Landy Andy]

This is what’s telling me to just do the clutch. So many people saying this happens. :-(

It’s easy to avoid, with a bit of care. It’s normally a bit of a pig to get a drive shaft out, but not on one of these. I wouldn’t have minded but oil was less than a year old. It’s probably easier to just except and do an oil change at the same time.

 

[MisterB]

If your van is already 3850 is it a LWB?

no, its currently a 3500kg BUT ive fitted rear air assist and SV are happy to issue paperwork to take it to 3850kg now.

 

[MisterB]

It didn’t take me that long but it wasn’t a joyful job. Especially when drive shift fell out piddling all my gearbox oil out

ouch, with ours being a comformatic box, i dont want any gearbox dramas !!!!

 

[dunnah01]

ouch, with ours being a comformatic box, i dont want any gearbox dramas !!!!

The gearbox bit is the same between manual and Comfortmatic. I'd really not bother uprating the front springs as it is virtually impossible to even reach the limit of the standard springs on most longer mohos

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[Happy Jack]

It didn’t take me that long but it wasn’t a joyful job. Especially when drive shift fell out piddling all my gearbox oil out

exactly same happened to me !!!.

 

[MisterB]

one step forward, two steps back. after going on the weighbridge i am ok JUST - but for me that is a tad uncomfortable - so am def looking to go to the max of 4000kg's.

sourcing HD coil springs for the front has been a bit of a pain, but ive finally found some at a decent price - Kilen 12181

Description

• Fitting Position:
  
  Front Axle
• reinforced version
• Spring Design:Coil Spring
• Suitable for vehicle type:Motor home
• Axle Load [kg] to:1999
• Item number:12181
• Manufacturer:KILEN
• EAN number:2224626048430
• Condition:New

Compatibility with passenger cars
FIAT

• FIAT Ducato III Minibus (250, 290) (Year of Construction 07.2006 - ...)
• FIAT Ducato III Platform / Chassis (250, 290) (Year of Construction 07.2006 - ...)

mine is a 2018 Fiat Ducato - so it looks as though they are suitable - SV have advised i need

4000 – wt kg ; Axle 1 = 1950 kg ; Axle 2 = 2240 kg (minimum load index 112)

so the coild appear to be suitable, has anyone used Kilen coils??

 

[Happy Jack]

one step forward, two steps back. after going on the weighbridge i am ok JUST - but for me that is a tad uncomfortable - so am def looking to go to the max of 4000kg's.

sourcing HD coil springs for the front has been a bit of a pain, but ive finally found some at a decent price - Kilen 12181

Description

• Fitting Position:
  
  Front Axle
• reinforced version
• Spring Design:Coil Spring
• Suitable for vehicle type:Motor home
• Axle Load [kg] to:1999
• Item number:12181
• Manufacturer:KILEN
• EAN number:2224626048430
• Condition:New

Compatibility with passenger cars
FIAT

• FIAT Ducato III Minibus (250, 290) (Year of Construction 07.2006 - ...)
• FIAT Ducato III Platform / Chassis (250, 290) (Year of Construction 07.2006 - ...)

mine is a 2018 Fiat Ducato - so it looks as though they are suitable - SV have advised i need

4000 – wt kg ; Axle 1 = 1950 kg ; Axle 2 = 2240 kg (minimum load index 112)

so the coild appear to be suitable, has anyone used Kilen coils??

Yes, as I said earlier I used Kilen12205, been on 2 years now; feel very good.
Where did you get the info on the axle weight for the 12181?
Would like to look up mine, although I'm still rated at 3500Kg but since it's actual weight is well under I don't need to uprate.

 

[MisterB]

Happy Jack

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kilen/7833591?utm_source=www.bestpartstore.co.uk&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=traffic_to_atd&utm_keyword=price_banner_products

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kilen/7833591?utm_source=www.bestpartstore.co.uk&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=traffic_to_atd&utm_keyword=price_banner_products

The 12205 state FROM 2000kg wheras the 12181 state up to 1999kgs - so the 12205 seem to have a higher load rating and for some reason appear to be cheaper?


The 12205 dont appear to be in stock though - i would prefer the 12205 now having read the rating on them! I can get the springs fitted locally on Monday - so am pushing for confirmation from SV

were yours on a fiat ducato 2018 onwards?

 

[Happy Jack]

Happy Jack

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kilen/7833591?utm_source=www.bestpartstore.co.uk&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=traffic_to_atd&utm_keyword=price_banner_products

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kilen/7833591?utm_source=www.bestpartstore.co.uk&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=traffic_to_atd&utm_keyword=price_banner_products

The 12205 state FROM 2000kg wheras the 12181 state up to 1999kgs - so the 12205 seem to have a higher load rating and for some reason appear to be cheaper?

The 12205 dont appear to be in stock though - i would prefer the 12205 now having read the rating on them! I can get the springs fitted locally on Monday - so am pushing for confirmation from SV

OK, thanks; never thought of autodoc.
Just checked e-bay, various suppliers seem to have them, typical price now is £260 A pair. Mechanic-choice are one and they have a 10% off code.

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[MisterB]

OK, thanks; never thought of autodoc.
Just checked e-bay, various suppliers seem to have them, typical price now is £260 A pair. Mechanic-choice are one and they have a 10% off code.

i didnt even know there was such a thing as autodoc !! thanks for your input, much appreciated - just wiating for SV to 'approve' then i can hunt for the best price, i will go for the 12205 if i can get them here for Monday !!

 

[Happy Jack]

Happy Jack

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kilen/7833591?utm_source=www.bestpartstore.co.uk&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=traffic_to_atd&utm_keyword=price_banner_products

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kilen/7833591?utm_source=www.bestpartstore.co.uk&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=traffic_to_atd&utm_keyword=price_banner_products

The 12205 state FROM 2000kg wheras the 12181 state up to 1999kgs - so the 12205 seem to have a higher load rating and for some reason appear to be cheaper?


The 12205 dont appear to be in stock though - i would prefer the 12205 now having read the rating on them! I can get the springs fitted locally on Monday - so am pushing for confirmation from SV

were yours on a fiat ducato 2018 onwards?

Just had a look on auto doc.
They both seen to be up to 1999Kgs !
But that is per spring, so the axle rating would be 3998kgs.
More than enough ?

 

[MisterB]

Just had a look on auto doc.
They both seen to be up to 1999Kgs !
But that is per spring, so the axle rating would be 3998kgs.
More than enough ?

the 12205 state FROM 2000kg's the 12181 state UP TO 1999kg's .....

or am i reading it wrong?

 

[Happy Jack]

the 12205 state FROM 2000kg's the 12181 state UP TO 1999kg's .....

or am i reading it wrong?

Sorry, I was reading it wrong. If they were in stock they appear to be much cheaper from auto doc.

 

[Happy Jack]

On E-bay, agr automotive have them for £154 a pair.

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