Upgrading 12V system - equipment choices and compromises

[fred_jb]

I have just completed a major upgrade of our van's 12V system. The van was new in August 23 and is an Etrusco CV540 DB, with Etrusco being part of the Hymer group and as such the electrical spec was fairly basic, with a Schaudt Electroblock EBL 31 managing the power distribution, though due to the Euro 6 alternator the system did include a Schaudt B2B, but no solar. We have done several 3-4 week trips so far this year and have started to notice that without a hookup the batteries get depleted fairly quickly and didn't seem to charge very quickly while driving. We use a Starlink quite a lot in the evenings and have a compressor fridge, plus an electric travel kettle which we find convenient. I had fitted a 1000W Renogy inverter so that we could use the kettle off grid. I also fitted a couple of solar panels early in our ownership, giving a total of 280W with a 20A Renogy MPPT controller.

Following the latest trip I decided to overhaul the system with a 300Ah Lithium battery from Fogstar and a matching Fogstar mains charger. I went with Fogstar for this due to their good reputation on the forum and competitive pricing and choose the Fogstar Drift for the built in Bluetooth and heater. I decided to also replace the Schaudt B2B and Renogy solar controller with a combined B2B/MPPT unit from Renogy as I have been happy with the Renogy kit and find it is competitively priced. I wanted a B2B which could be managed by an app, a facility which the Schaudt unit lacks. I also added a Renogy shunt as although the battery does have Bluetooth connectivity I wanted to get as much info as possible in one app and this lets me see battery charge and power use in the same app used to manage the B2B/MPPT controller. I upgraded the inverter to the 3000W model as we have found taking a small air fryer with us has been a bit of a game changer and wanted to be able to run it off grid which the 1000W unit was not powerful enough for. I am also intending to fit the Renogy Core One display panel which was another reason for sticking with one make. This can display all the same info as the Renogy app, with the addition of a van levelling sensor display, which can also be replicated in the phone app, and could be very useful.

So that is the reasoning behind my choices. It has been a big job, not least due to ripping out some of the converter's inadequate and badly routed cabling, but I finally got everything up and running this afternoon. I then spent some time tidying up the remaining converter's rats nest of wiring and putting right some collateral damage where my delving into the innards had dislodged a couple of wires which had stopped the step and a couple of lights from working! The battery, as someone helpfully reported on here fits snugly under the drivers seat in place of the two AGM batteries, leaving space for the shunt and 300A fuse feeding the inverter. The inverter, B2B/MPPT and mains charger have been fitted inside the dinette seat joined to the battery via a metre or so of hefty 375A cable. The inverter terminals act as connection busbars for the other equipment, including the Starlink DC POE based power system. I've included a few pictures below.

So far I am mostly happy with the system apart from the excessively noisy fan in the Fogstar mains charger. I suppose the main compromise has been to stay mainly with one manufacturer for the sake of integated reporting, rather than selecting best of breed from several manufacturers. Though Renogy may not be regarded as top tier, their prices are reasonable and I have had no complaints with performance. I have been particularly impressed with the Renogy shunt. After telling it the capacity of the battery and the current SoC as reported by the Fogstar app I told it to sync, and it has since reported virtually identical figures to the Fogstar battery app. This is just as well as I find the Fogstar app annoying to use as every time I open the app it seems to take an age to locate the battery and often fails to do so and starts a Bluetooth search listing a plethora of irrelevant devices before eventually finding the battery. Thankfully I won't need to use it much in future as I can get most of the same info from the shunt.

 

[LithiumConvert]

Your 300A fuse may not sit well with the 250A maximum continuous power draw from the Fogstar battery.

Personally, I would have put a low value fuse in the thin red positive supply wire to the shunt - alkthough if anything serious does go wrong with the shunt that wire will make a good fuse.

I find the 20A charger built into the EBL is very quiet and quite adequate because if we are on EHU it will invariably be overnight - 15 hours or more.

 

[fred_jb]

Your 300A fuse may not sit well with the 250A maximum continuous power draw from the Fogstar battery.

Personally, I would have put a low value fuse in the thin red positive supply wire to the shunt - alkthough if anything serious does go wrong with the shunt that wire will make a good fuse.

I find the 20A charger built into the EBL is very quiet and quite adequate because if we are on EHU it will invariably be overnight - 15 hours or more.

I have been considering changing the fuse to closer match the battery. Renogy suggest a 400A fuse for the 3k inverter! However I don't want a fuse that will immediately blow if I ever draw what is an allowable current of 250A, i.e. the maximum output from the battery, so it is difficult to determine what value to choose. If 250A is the max sustained output from the battery then that implies that an overload will momentarily go higher than 250A before being limited by the BMS, and that is when I would want a fuse to blow which is why I chose 300A. What value would you suggest, maybe 275A?

Renogy do not suggest fusing the battery voltage sense wire and I presume this is a high impedance input which is extremely unlikely to develop the sort of fault which would draw a lot of current, so I am fairly relaxed about that, and as you say it is a thin wire which would not survive a large current anyway.

I agree that the EBL charger is entirely unobtrusive, but it does not have a lithium profile and I thought that continuing to use it might affect the warranty of my expensive battery! The Fogstar 50A charger is not so expensive so I may risk it's warranty by replacing the fan at some point!

 

[Kannon Fodda]

The fuse needs to match the rating of the cable. Calculators online will show you the max current allowable for the cable cross section and length (double to allow pos and neg wires).

But 3000W at 12V is 250A so just on limit of your lithium battery output rating. Your 300A fuse allows a tad overhead on the startup short term load, if the cable can cope with that.

 

[TrudeandDall]

I have upgraded our van to similar to yours, only our battery is a 280 from Off Grid, the solar controller and B2B are Votronic and the inverter is a 1200 watt from Sunshine Solar.
I agree with LithiumConvert, that the existing mains charger would have been okay. I retained our Dometic charger which does not have a LifePO4 setting, as an emergency back up. We travel off-grid whenever possible and are currently 6 weeks into a tour, having never used a hook up, nor had any battery worries at all - even when staying for 5 days in the shade and charging 2 ebikes a couple of times. Our Gaslow system if still almost full as the 230v travel kettle and toaster have made the gas rings almost redundant . A real game changer for off grid traveling.
The B2B is the king of the chargers, as it quickly and efficiently refills our battery. Ous is 50 amps and I retained the original Schaut 25 amp one, which I can (and have) used them together when our planned day journey has been short. The alternator is 220amp, so well on top of the job for the normal 50 amps and occasional 75 amps draw of the B2B.
The Votronic solar charger also keeps the engine battery healthy when we are stationary and does so passively right through the British winter when the van is resting at home. This is something that other controllers do not do and in my mind is something that is often missed when specifying system equipment. Sorry Victron, but you only look after the leisure battery.......
You have done a great job so far, so forget about your noisy fan and enjoy the efficient fruits of your labour,!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[fred_jb]

The fuse needs to match the rating of the cable. Calculators online will show you the max current allowable for the cable cross section and length (double to allow pos and neg wires).

But 3000W at 12V is 250A so just on limit of your lithium battery output rating. Your 300A fuse allows a tad overhead on the startup short term load, if the cable can cope with that.

Thanks, that is useful input. The cable is 50 square mm stuff with a rating of 375 Amps if the writing on it is to be believed!

 

[fred_jb]

I have upgraded our van to similar to yours, only our battery is a 280 from Off Grid, the solar controller and B2B are Votronic and the inverter is a 1200 watt from Sunshine Solar.
I agree with LithiumConvert, that the existing mains charger would have been okay. I retained our Dometic charger which does not have a LifePO4 setting, as an emergency back up. We travel off-grid whenever possible and are currently 6 weeks into a tour, having never used a hook up, nor had any battery worries at all - even when staying for 5 days in the shade and charging 2 ebikes a couple of times. Our Gaslow system if still almost full as the 230v travel kettle and toaster have made the gas rings almost redundant . A real game changer for off grid traveling.
The B2B is the king of the chargers, as it quickly and efficiently refills our battery. Ous is 50 amps and I retained the original Schaut 25 amp one, which I can (and have) used them together when our planned day journey has been short. The alternator is 220amp, so well on top of the job for the normal 50 amps and occasional 75 amps draw of the B2B.
The Votronic solar charger also keeps the engine battery healthy when we are stationary and does so passively right through the British winter when the van is resting at home. This is something that other controllers do not do and in my mind is something that is often missed when specifying system equipment. Sorry Victron, but you only look after the leisure battery.......
You have done a great job so far, so forget about your noisy fan and enjoy the efficient fruits of your labour,!

Thanks for that, looks like we have come up with similar setups!

Good point about the emergency charger backup. I am keeping the EBL connected to the mains to trickle charge the starter battery and also have an Ablemail unit which can send charge from leisure battery to starter battery if conditions allow. I have just taken out the 20A fuse that allows the EBL charger to also charge the leisure battery, but could always reinstate it and change the setting to gel if needed.

I have already identified a replacement fan for the Fogstar charger. This has a similar flow rate, but a sound level of 19dB compared to the original which, having looked up the part number, has a rating of 31 dB - no wonder it is noisy!

 

[headlight]

Thanks for that, looks like we have come up with similar setups!

Good point about the emergency charger backup. I am keeping the EBL connected to the mains to trickle charge the starter battery and also have an Ablemail unit which can send charge from leisure battery to starter battery if conditions allow. I have just taken out the 20A fuse that allows the EBL charger to also charge the leisure battery, but could always reinstate it and change the setting to gel if needed.

I have already identified a replacement fan for the Fogstar charger. This has a similar flow rate, but a sound level of 19dB compared to the original which, having looked up the part number, has a rating of 31 dB - no wonder it is noisy!

I said they were noisy and I think yours is the newer quieter version.
Imagine how noisy the older version is lol.

 

[LithiumConvert]

I agree with LithiumConvert, that the existing mains charger would have been okay.

Thanks for that.

What [fuse] value would you suggest?

I would consider changing, adding to, the battery capacity rather than changing the fuse?

I also think there are advantages to spreading the load across more than one battery.

I use Sterling Power LiFePO4 batteries and I have been using mixed value capacity batteries for a number of years now and have seen no problems. - Even with (fused-each-end) inter-battery connectors of odd lengths.

 

[LithiumConvert]

I have already identified a replacement fan for the Fogstar charger.

Why do people equip these things with noisy fans? - ha'porth of tar springs to mind.

I have a 300 Watt pure sine wave inverter which is now silent after I replaced the oiginal noisy, noisy fan.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[growly_bear]

I have just completed a major upgrade of our van's 12V system. The van was new in August 23 and is an Etrusco CV540 DB, with Etrusco being part of the Hymer group and as such the electrical spec was fairly basic, with a Schaudt Electroblock EBL 31 managing the power distribution, though due to the Euro 6 alternator the system did include a Schaudt B2B, but no solar. We have done several 3-4 week trips so far this year and have started to notice that without a hookup the batteries get depleted fairly quickly and didn't seem to charge very quickly while driving. We use a Starlink quite a lot in the evenings and have a compressor fridge, plus an electric travel kettle which we find convenient. I had fitted a 1000W Renogy inverter so that we could use the kettle off grid. I also fitted a couple of solar panels early in our ownership, giving a total of 280W with a 20A Renogy MPPT controller.

Following the latest trip I decided to overhaul the system with a 300Ah Lithium battery from Fogstar and a matching Fogstar mains charger. I went with Fogstar for this due to their good reputation on the forum and competitive pricing and choose the Fogstar Drift for the built in Bluetooth and heater. I decided to also replace the Schaudt B2B and Renogy solar controller with a combined B2B/MPPT unit from Renogy as I have been happy with the Renogy kit and find it is competitively priced. I wanted a B2B which could be managed by an app, a facility which the Schaudt unit lacks. I also added a Renogy shunt as although the battery does have Bluetooth connectivity I wanted to get as much info as possible in one app and this lets me see battery charge and power use in the same app used to manage the B2B/MPPT controller. I upgraded the inverter to the 3000W model as we have found taking a small air fryer with us has been a bit of a game changer and wanted to be able to run it off grid which the 1000W unit was not powerful enough for. I am also intending to fit the Renogy Core One display panel which was another reason for sticking with one make. This can display all the same info as the Renogy app, with the addition of a van levelling sensor display, which can also be replicated in the phone app, and could be very useful.

So that is the reasoning behind my choices. It has been a big job, not least due to ripping out some of the converter's inadequate and badly routed cabling, but I finally got everything up and running this afternoon. I then spent some time tidying up the remaining converter's rats nest of wiring and putting right some collateral damage where my delving into the innards had dislodged a couple of wires which had stopped the step and a couple of lights from working! The battery, as someone helpfully reported on here fits snugly under the drivers seat in place of the two AGM batteries, leaving space for the shunt and 300A fuse feeding the inverter. The inverter, B2B/MPPT and mains charger have been fitted inside the dinette seat joined to the battery via a metre or so of hefty 375A cable. The inverter terminals act as connection busbars for the other equipment, including the Starlink DC POE based power system. I've included a few pictures below.

So far I am mostly happy with the system apart from the excessively noisy fan in the Fogstar mains charger. I suppose the main compromise has been to stay mainly with one manufacturer for the sake of integated reporting, rather than selecting best of breed from several manufacturers. Though Renogy may not be regarded as top tier, their prices are reasonable and I have had no complaints with performance. I have been particularly impressed with the Renogy shunt. After telling it the capacity of the battery and the current SoC as reported by the Fogstar app I told it to sync, and it has since reported virtually identical figures to the Fogstar battery app. This is just as well as I find the Fogstar app annoying to use as every time I open the app it seems to take an age to locate the battery and often fails to do so and starts a Bluetooth search listing a plethora of irrelevant devices before eventually finding the battery. Thankfully I won't need to use it much in future as I can get most of the same info from the shunt.


View attachment 965253View attachment 965254View attachment 965255View attachment 965256

Can I ask what the 2 temperature sensors are wired to? Thanks

 

[fred_jb]

Can I ask what the 2 temperature sensors are wired to? Thanks

Yes no problem. The bigger one on the left connects to the combined Renogy B2B/MPPT controller, and the other one goes to the Renogy shunt.

 

[growly_bear]

Yes no problem. The bigger one on the left connects to the combined Renogy B2B/MPPT controller, and the other one goes to the Renogy shunt.

Thank you. I'm currently fitting the same Renogy DCDCS, shunt and a 2000w inverter, so interested in your conversion!

My instructions say not to fit the DCDCS temp sensor when used with lithium. Does your instructions state differently?

Regarding fuses, have you made any progress regarding size selection? I didn't know until doing research, that the rating of the fuse is it's continuous rating. I'll dig out my research and and reply in a while.

 

[Raul]

Thanks, that is useful input. The cable is 50 square mm stuff with a rating of 375 Amps if the writing on it is to be believed!

That's max wire ampacity, you need to de rate in line with the method of installation.
For a 3000w load, a cable of 70mm2 its more appropriate near combustible material (wood) , with a 300a fuse. Also will help with voltage drop and dc voltage ripple, inverters do not like any ripple higher than 5%.

As it is the 50mm2 could also do with a 250a fuse. If you blow that, then its the wrong fuse caracteristics. A mega fusible fuse will hold 1.6x the rating before blowing, and will happily work for years bang on its rating value. Buy reputable name fuses like little fuse, bussman, blue sea, etc. and pull the data sheet for the chosen fuse. You will see the nominal values, blow characteristics, and one most important capability to prevent fires: short circuit current capability.
Nice work and thank you for sharing.

 

[fred_jb]

Thank you. I'm currently fitting the same Renogy DCDCS, shunt and a 2000w inverter, so interested in your conversion!

My instructions say not to fit the DCDCS temp sensor when used with lithium. Does your instructions state differently?

Regarding fuses, have you made any progress regarding size selection? I didn't know until doing research, that the rating of the fuse is it's continuous rating. I'll dig out my research and and reply in a while.

Yes, the temp sensor info rings a bell. I think I read it early on but forgot once I got started, so thanks for the reminder. I actually reused the sensor from the previous MPPT controller as it was already routed between the two locations, but will disconnect it now. It would interesting to know why it shouldn't be used.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[fred_jb]

That's max wire ampacity, you need to de rate in line with the method of installation.
For a 3000w load, a cable of 70mm2 its more appropriate near combustible material (wood) , with a 300a fuse. Also will help with voltage drop and dc voltage ripple, inverters do not like any ripple higher than 5%.

As it is the 50mm2 could also do with a 250a fuse. If you blow that, then its the wrong fuse caracteristics. A mega fusible fuse will hold 1.6x the rating before blowing, and will happily work for years bang on its rating value. Buy reputable name fuses like little fuse, bussman, blue sea, etc. and pull the data sheet for the chosen fuse. You will see the nominal values, blow characteristics, and one most important capability to prevent fires: short circuit current capability.
Nice work and thank you for sharing.

Thanks for that, I will take your advice and change the fuse to a 250A one. As Renogy supply a 60A ANL type fuse for the B2B output, that is the type I chose for the battery connection. I will see if something in the same form factor is available from a reputable manufacturer, to avoid changing the fuseholder, though I suspect most suppliers just rebadge stuff from China.

 

[fred_jb]

This one looks reassuringly expensive compared to those on Amazon!

BEP ANL Fuse 250 Amp - Marine Electricals

BEP ANL Fuse – 250 Amp

emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com

 

[growly_bear]

Yes, the temp sensor info rings a bell. I think I read it early on but forgot once I got started, so thanks for the reminder. I actually reused the sensor from the previous MPPT controller as it was already routed between the two locations, but will disconnect it now. It would interesting to know why it shouldn't be used.

I'm glad I asked. Thank you.

I've gone for a Blue sea busbar with those block type fuses https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/blue...ount-3-way-fuse-block-common-power-input.html.

The fuse types and characteristics make good reading... I've attached the Renogy ANL and the Blue Sea (Busmann) ones

 

[Raul]

This one looks reassuringly expensive compared to those on Amazon!

BEP ANL Fuse 250 Amp - Marine Electricals

BEP ANL Fuse – 250 Amp

emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com

Bep is a good make, and ANL its actually better than mega, reflects in the price.

 

[Hoovie]

Bep is a good make, and ANL its actually better than mega, reflects in the price.

In my experience ANL FUSES are ok, but ANL Fuseholders can be very problematic. I have tried numerous ones and they have all distorted at high temperature. (When you put a high current through a fuse holder, it inevitably gets hot regardless of how well you tighten the connections).
When I have replaced the ANL Fuseholder with a MEGA Fuse Holder I have never had the same problem. Same cables, same terminals, different fuse and holder.
I took these photos a few years ago to show what happens with the heat (and note this is just one Holder. Seen same problems on different designs, but all ANL)

I think the ANL holders all seem to be made from Plastics that cannot handle heat but the MEGA fuse holders are made from a much more resiliant product.
I've got a bunch of ANL Fuses and a couple of ANL Holders and stuck with them all as I don't want to use them myself and can't with a clear conscience sell them on or even give them away!

I am currently trying out the Victron MEGA Fuses and Holders as you would expect them to be of a high quality. not 100% convinced yet. The cover looks like the same plastics as the ANL holders and the Fuse itself did not drop in very nicely - off by 1-2mm due to bolt placement, which may not seem a lot but enough to be annoying.

EXTRA: just one other comment ... When the ANL holders overheated and distorted, the fuses didn't blow ever. The issue was noticed due to the smell of burning (i.e. Melting Plastic) rather than a circuit no longer working).

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Raul]

I would not trust victron mega to blow on its rating, someone on the tube tested them at double the rating to blow.
In regards to ANL holders, you have to get the good quality ones, as a ANL its a fast blow characteristic, right on the rating with minimal delay, the holder should not heat up if all connections are sound.
I have seen crimps that appear to be fine, under load with the fingers on it you can feel the heat, move along the cable and its cold.
An ANL, midi or mega holder provides mechanical integrity to the fuse ends. The electrical connection is done via stud, and good lug to fuse matting surface. If the ends of the holder heat up, its the stud and its components bolted within to blame for heat.
But I know what you mean by flimsy holders. I try to avoid them if I can by design, and opt for a Lynx distribution type of connection.

Edit: anl and mega holders have different dimensions from centre stud to centre stud. I never succeeded to mix them.

 

[Outdoors Dad]

Hi mate this is a good thread. I fitted a Renogy 30a dc-dc last year with help from people on this site. It's performing as it should. I also early this year fitted a 1000w Renogy inverter although I wish and thought I bought the 2000w but never mind that's copious amounts of wine and online shopping for ya Anyway today I've been tidying up some electrical stuff to do with lithium install and I've removed the Renogy temp probe. However why is it not needed with a lithium battery???

 

[Hoovie]

I would not trust victron mega to blow on its rating, someone on the tube tested them at double the rating to blow.
In regards to ANL holders, you have to get the good quality ones, as a ANL its a fast blow characteristic, right on the rating with minimal delay, the holder should not heat up if all connections are sound.
I have seen crimps that appear to be fine, under load with the fingers on it you can feel the heat, move along the cable and its cold.
An ANL, midi or mega holder provides mechanical integrity to the fuse ends. The electrical connection is done via stud, and good lug to fuse matting surface. If the ends of the holder heat up, its the stud and its components bolted within to blame for heat.

THIS is why I was clear to make the point that by moving everything from one type of holder to another, there was no further issue - so the only thing that was changed was the holder (and fuse itself).

But I know what you mean by flimsy holders. I try to avoid them if I can by design, and opt for a Lynx distribution type of connection.

But these were NOT flimsy or cheap holders - they were - or certainly appeared - pretty substantial.

Edit: anl and mega holders have different dimensions from centre stud to centre stud. I never succeeded to mix them.

Indeed so. Which is annoying as it means I am stuck with a box of ANL fuses!

as an FYI for anyone reading, MINI-ANL Fuses have the same dimensions as MIDI Fuses and are interchangable (and the metal strip fuses also are the same size).

 

[fred_jb]

Hi mate this is a good thread. I fitted a Renogy 30a dc-dc last year with help from people on this site. It's performing as it should. I also early this year fitted a 1000w Renogy inverter although I wish and thought I bought the 2000w but never mind that's copious amounts of wine and online shopping for ya Anyway today I've been tidying up some electrical stuff to do with lithium install and I've removed the Renogy temp probe. However why is it not needed with a lithium battery???

I don't know either why the temp probe mustn't be used with lithium batteries which have a BMS, but have disconnected mine today. It then gives a default reading of 25 C according to the manual, and confirmed in the app.

 

[Outdoors Dad]

To be fair I rarely check the Renogy app for charging stats as I mostly use the Fogstar app which states battery temp etc. I think maybe the temp probe could interfere with batt BMS. fyi the Renogy app sign in seems to expire if you don't use it for a while....means resetting of password if you can't remember it!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[AdrianChen]

I don't know either why the temp probe mustn't be used with lithium batteries which have a BMS, but have disconnected mine today. It then gives a default reading of 25 C according to the manual, and confirmed in the app.

Just a guess but I suspect the charger might automatically use temp compensation if it gets temp data. Good for LA batteries, but not needed or helpful for Lithium.

On our system (non Renogy) the temp probe is just used to stop the chargers (EHU/Solar/B2B) from charging below 5c°, with temp compensation switched off in the settings.

 

[fred_jb]

To be fair I rarely check the Renogy app for charging stats as I mostly use the Fogstar app which states battery temp etc. I think maybe the temp probe could interfere with batt BMS. fyi the Renogy app sign in seems to expire if you don't use it for a while....means resetting of password if you can't remember it!

Yes, I have had to sign in a couple of times, but no problem as I let the Chrome browser manage passwords for non critical websites, so it just inserts the username and password for me. I installed the Renogy Core One display yesterday and had a lot of trouble getting it and the other components to talk to both the display and the app on my phone. I had to uninstall everything a couple of times which involved logging in again when I reinstalled the app.

I seemed to be able to get 2 out of 3 to work together but not all three. Eventually remembered the shunt has a reset button. After pressing that everything worked. The end result is quite useful with all the info available on both the display, which I have mounted on the wall of the overcab shelf near the Truma controller panel, and on the phone app. The display panel has a nice big number showing the available battery percentage which will make it easy to keep an eye on that. It also has a levelling function which shows side to side and front to back tilt which will be useful when parking up.

 

[fred_jb]

This is what the Renogy Core One display looks like in case anyone is interested in fitting one.

 

[Outdoors Dad]

That looks very posh and sleek. What information does it give that the app doesn't mate.

 

[fred_jb]

That looks very posh and sleek. What information does it give that the app doesn't mate.

The only extra information is the tilt stuff. The display has a sensor for that. You can display tilt on the phone, but not without the display, as the app needs the info from the display sensor.

So far I have only got it display tilt on the phone app if the display and phone are both on the same wifi network. It doesn't seem to work over Bluetooth.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}