UK Emission zones - discrepancies in operation.

[nicholsong]

In an effort to reduce pollution the UK government permitted local authorities to introduce Emissions Zones.

The government did not specify the rules or charges.

Consequently there are now six(?) cities where a mish-mash of rules and charges for entering these zones, which vary in the extreme.

Most of them allow entry for non-compliant vehicles, but these charges vary from hundreds of ££££s for London to tens of ££££ for some other cities.

Inner Oxford totally bans ICE vehicles, so only electric allowed.

None of them exempt non-compliant vehicles that were pre-owned by residents before the zones were introduced, although the proposed Manchester zone(currently delayed) does allow a discount.

Nearly all the schemes had an implementation period, which presumably was to allow non-compliant vehicles to be exchanged for compliant ones. This was fine for those vehicles >3.5t, such as delivery vehicles which would probably normally be changed within the time-scale.

None of the schemes seem to allow for minimal use vehicles and ones which would not normally be changed within the implementation period, for example Motorhomes.

Furthermore in some cities even the criteria for compliance have been tightened and vehicles which were compliant are now showing as non-compliant.

A lot of this has been retrospective legislation for many who already lived within the zones, especially MH owners. The application of legislation retrospectively is generally considered to be unjust.

For those who travel the country it is very difficult to keep track of the rules, times and geographical limits applicable to each city/town and also to know when another town is enforcing a new emissions zone.

There are also a lot of examples where the administrators of these zones have classified vehicle incorrectly. There is government website which allows one to check one's vehicle for 5 cities, but not LEZ.

I checked my recently re-registered MH as a Polish 'Veteran' vehicle (don't ask) and the answer came back that it is a motorcycle and is therefore exempt in all 5 cities - Yippee!

I think that the government made a big mistake in allowing each LA to plough it own furrow and we now have a jumble of regulations.

Geoff

 

[pagey]

yes the lunatics have taken over the asylum

 

[Wigankaren]

I am looking to buy a 66 plate ducato swift 622 MH. I think it is euro 5 (looking at ducatos of that age). I cant find any euro classification on the MH or documentation. The government website says it is euro 6 compliant (due to its registration date). Would it be euro 6 compliant in Europe? Is it safe to assume it will always be euro 6 compliant (i.e. the government is not likely to reinstate the base vehicle emissions for MH).

 

[PaulyP]

Non of the so called clean air zones are needed, Greater Manchester is continually showing 1 or 2 on the clean air scale, 1-3 is considered low, our local councils and mayor decided on a near 500 square mile zone and it was their choice to charge for it, charging does not clean the air it just makes money for the councils. They know by the uproar they have created that they have made a big mistake and are now blaming everybody they can think of to take away the heat from themselves, we will not be happy till it is scrapped completely.
The way they have tried to sneak it in under the recent lockdowns etc has been atrocious but now they have been found out they are running scared, wouldn’t surprise me if it ended in a court case where their lies and non factual statements will be exposed, also the lack of consultation with the public that they are supposed to represent, they work for us not the other way round.
Virtually all the councils are labour run, the Labour Party is nearly bankrupt, they have overspent in their areas and wasted money on unwanted schemes and are now trying to claw it back from the public.

 

[Coolcats]

I am looking to buy a 66 plate ducato swift 622 MH. I think it is euro 5 (looking at ducatos of that age). I cant find any euro classification on the MH or documentation. The government website says it is euro 6 compliant (due to its registration date). Would it be euro 6 compliant in Europe? Is it safe to assume it will always be euro 6 compliant (i.e. the government is not likely to reinstate the base vehicle emissions for MH).

I think you are correct as it’s a 2016-2017 Vehicle the ducato has red writing on the offside front I will take a picture and post tomorrow. I don’t think the ducato was eu 6 until 2017/18.

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[peterc10]

If there are no emission figures on your V5c it will depend upon the date it was registered. My 2015 model year Fiat based Hymer was built in late 2014. I bought it as the first registered owner off the dealer's forecourt in November 2015. Because it was registered on or after 1 September 2015 and had no emission figures put on the V5c it is classed as Euro 6.

I get free access to all UK clean air zones. I also have a yellow sticker for France and a green one for Germany.

AFAIK they can't change my Euro 6 rating. But they can in the future change the rules as to what Euro rating vehicles are allowed in to any zone.

 

[Jamesh]

If there are no emission figures on your V5c it will depend upon the date it was registered. My 2015 model year Fiat based Hymer was built in late 2014. I bought it as the first registered owner off the dealer's forecourt in November 2015. Because it was registered on or after 1 September 2015 and had no emission figures put on the V5c it is classed as Euro 6.

I get free access to all UK clean air zones. I also have a yellow sticker for France and a green one for Germany.

AFAIK they can't change my Euro 6 rating. But they can in the future change the rules as to what Euro rating vehicles are allowed in to any zone.

Never heard of retrospective changes to tax / emissions classes.

I could be wrong.

 

[jongood]

IMO All these schemes are ridiculous and only serve to fund the ambitions of our local politicians while making our country less competitive in the world markets.

If they really wanted to tackle Nox pollution why don't they give grants to companies to develop retrofit filters? this would be easier to achieve and has to be better than the environmental impact of manufacturing a new Motorhome, Truck, Bus whatever.

When you look at the destruction and subsequent pollution being caused now in Ukraine just underlines the dishonesty of these schemes

 

[pagey]

Mine left the sunlight factory in Jan 2017 and has the red sign on the drivers side wing and is euro6

 

[PaulyP]

If there are no emission figures on your V5c it will depend upon the date it was registered. My 2015 model year Fiat based Hymer was built in late 2014. I bought it as the first registered owner off the dealer's forecourt in November 2015. Because it was registered on or after 1 September 2015 and had no emission figures put on the V5c it is classed as Euro 6.

I get free access to all UK clean air zones. I also have a yellow sticker for France and a green one for Germany.

AFAIK they can't change my Euro 6 rating. But they can in the future change the rules as to what Euro rating vehicles are allowed in to any zone.

The rules will change in the future once they get their way, first it will include cars, even electric ones, then it will involve all vehicles regardless of what they are, and then it will be all vehicles charged per mile.

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[peterc10]

Never heard of retrospective changes to tax / emissions classes.

I could be wrong.

That is what I said

 

[AXO66]

Hopefully my legs won’t get taxed as they are old, and don’t meet required performance outputs.

 

[emjaiuk]

Non of the so called clean air zones are needed,..............................

Really?

 

[Riverbankannie]

If there are no emission figures on your V5c it will depend upon the date it was registered. My 2015 model year Fiat based Hymer was built in late 2014. I bought it as the first registered owner off the dealer's forecourt in November 2015. Because it was registered on or after 1 September 2015 and had no emission figures put on the V5c it is classed as Euro 6.

I get free access to all UK clean air zones. I also have a yellow sticker for France and a green one for Germany.

AFAIK they can't change my Euro 6 rating. But they can in the future change the rules as to what Euro rating vehicles are allowed in to any zone.

Interesting, my van converted March 2015, first registered 11/11/2015. I had always assumed Euro5.
However it does have emissions figures on the V5.
Edit: just checked for Bristol, it says the charge applicable so must be taking emissions not date registered.

 

[PaulyP]

Really?

Look, we all want clean air, we actually already have it, probably the best in Europe, what we don’t want is having to pay for it, charging people to use their vehicles doesn’t clean the air.

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[Coolcats]

Look, we all want clean air, we actually already have it, probably the best in Europe,

Maybe, maybe not , it s probably not bad but like many school reports 'could do better'

 

[emjaiuk]

Look, we all want clean air, we actually already have it,………

I’m sure people living adjacent to the North and South Circular roads in London, and the parents of the little girl whose death was attributed to pollution will be reassured by your statement. Assuming just for the sake of argument unlikely as it may seem your statement may not be 100% correct, how would you go about reducing traffic pollution?

 

[LesW]

how would you go about reducing traffic pollution?

By improving public transport for a start, assuming of course there is some where you live.

 

[emjaiuk]

.......... assuming of course there is some where you live.

That will always be a problem. There should be a lot more thought and effort into not only increasing the provision of park 'n rides, but the way they operate. For example, all to often parking charges at stations make it cheaper to complete the journey by car. Congestion and LEZ charges can go somewhere towards making public transport fares seem more economical since the government doesn't seem willing to use fares as anti pollution tool. If people can leave aside ideological paranoia for a moment, I used to drive in London daily when Ken Livingstone introduced the Fares Fair policy, and the instant difference it made to traffic levels was amazing.

 

[PaulyP]

I’m sure people living adjacent to the North and South Circular roads in London, and the parents of the little girl whose death was attributed to pollution will be reassured by your statement. Assuming just for the sake of argument unlikely as it may seem your statement may not be 100% correct, how would you go about reducing traffic pollution?

First of all there is very little pollution from current traffic, if it was deemed to be that bad then ban it, deaths have been attributed to pollution, yet nobody can ever produce proof to show that, no death certificate which gives pollution as the cause of death.
Secondly air pollution is improving all the time via natural selection as vehicles improve and as older vehicles are taken off the road. If you want to see improvement in the worlds pollution figures then chase up Russia, China and a few others who have much much higher pollution figures than we have, but we’re always the soft target, it’s basically all one big scam, go back 50 years and we still had smog, things improve naturally over the years, but it’s the flavour of the month at the moment so everybody jumps on the bandwagon.

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[Brains]

no death certificate which gives pollution as the cause of death.

Ella Kissi Deborah may disagree
Air pollution: Coroner

 

[pagey]

The rules will change in the future once they get their way, first it will include cars, even electric ones, then it will involve all vehicles regardless of what they are, and then it will be all vehicles charged per mile.

totally agree this has nothing to do with air quality its just a tax

 

[pagey]

you can go into any zone and kill as many as you like but you have to pay first so we can spend the money on other things more important like wages etc clean air my ar@e

 

[PaulyP]

Ella Kissi Deborah may disagree
Air pollution: Coroner

I think the child in question had a very bad case of asthma which was the main contribution to her death, I’m not trying to dumb down the report as it was tragic and pollution did play a part in this case but to put it in context it’s one death whereas there are thousands of other children living in a similar situation who don’t suffer from pollution problems.

 

[Coolcats]

First of all there is very little pollution from current traffic, if it was deemed to be that bad then ban it, deaths have been attributed to pollution, yet nobody can ever produce proof to show that, no death certificate which gives pollution as the cause of death.
Secondly air pollution is improving all the time via natural selection as vehicles improve and as older vehicles are taken off the road. If you want to see improvement in the worlds pollution figures then chase up Russia, China and a few others who have much much higher pollution figures than we have, but we’re always the soft target, it’s basically all one big scam, go back 50 years and we still had smog, things improve naturally over the years, but it’s the flavour of the month at the moment so everybody jumps on the bandwagon.

You may want to follow the research



Polution does not stay in a country it was created in.....sands blown from Africa and deposit on your car are a visible indication of how particles can travel. What about the Airline solution all forms of contaminants should be reduced where they can

Why are thing not banned...well there are large lobbying bodies that dissuade governments from acting along with other financial and social interests

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[Coolcats]

etc clean air my ar@e

You can get a Carbon filter for that

 

[Fdhadi]

Our Motorhome was registered 24/03/2016
It’s a 2.3 130hp Mulitijet Fiat Ducato Euro 5+
When new it was 3.5t CAZ charges applied. See below
Uprated to 3.7t and NO CAZ charges. See below

 

[PaulyP]

you can go into any zone and kill as many as you like but you have to pay first so we can spend the money on other things more important like wages etc clean air my ar@e

I think you will find that many labour run councils have, as usual, wasted loads of money on hair brained schemes and now find themselves in financial problems therefore are looking at ways to claw money back from the public.

 

[PaulyP]

You may want to follow the research



Polution does not stay in a country it was created in.....sands blown from Africa and deposit on your car are a visible indication of how particles can travel. What about the Airline solution all forms of contaminants should be reduced where they can

Why are thing not banned...well there are large lobbying bodies that dissuade governments from acting along with other financial and social interests

As it states pollution does not stay in the country it was created in, exactly my argument when I point out that we contribute approx 1% to the worlds pollution, if you want to solve the problem it’s not this country that want to get a grip !

 

[Coolcats]

I think you will find that many labour run councils have, as usual, wasted loads of money on hair brained schemes and now find themselves in financial problems therefore are looking at ways to claw money back from the public.

For Political balance, here is a conservative one, to be honest I think the councils are trying to do the right thing but until we have EV's its always going to be an issue. Don't forget central government have reduced the money given to councils (of all persuasions).

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