Tyres? Yes, sorry, yet another post about tyre choice ;-)

[Dean14]

Ok, Ok - I know this topic has been posted about on numerous occasions so do apologise but I am seeking advise regarding improving the ride (to make it less crashy and harsh) in our McLouis 373. After much reading I have almost certainly narrowed my choice and specifically ask can anyone that may have changed from Michelin Agilis Campers (run at Michelin's crazy recommended pressures) to Continental VanContact Campers (run at Continental's much lower recommended pressures) post their opinion? Has it improved the ride or made little or no difference?
The MH is only 3 old and tyres have done under 2k miles but I'm prepared to pay for newer tyres if they do actually make a difference, hence my post. I have already had VB semi-air fitted to rear axle and uprated coils on the front. I have read hundreds of posts about the matter and appreciate that switching to C (instead of CP) tyres would probably give a better ride but if I ever need to explain my tyre choice to my insurance company (or the police) then personally I'd prefer to be able to point them to the actual tyre manufacturers' recommendations - and in correspondence with Continental they have recommended camper tyres for MHs. I also appreciate that full air would probably be better - but that's out of budget.
Thanks for any input.

 

[Apacheman]

Being a Yorkshire lad it would deeply trouble me to ditch perfectly good tyres. I have the Agilis CP and found running the front at 60 and the rear at 70 gives a very acceptable drive. You’re only ever a pot hole away from a knackered tyre!

 

[Garry - June]

How?

Road legal, weight and speed legal, correct size, correctly inflated, what could be the objection?

Who would have thought it..... fitting van tyres .... on a van.... well I never..

 

[pandas]

I presume you mean you went from Michelin Agilis CrossClimates (C) to Michelin CrossClimate Camper (CP) tyres?

Could you please elaborate on the "significant" difference?

No went from Michelin Cross Climate cross climate Agilis which was a CP tyre.
My Hymer was supplied new with the Agilis, as above, it was a very hard ride to the point I was thinking about semi air. Which I was familiar with as I had it installed on my previous Hymer. Found some research that said the make up of the non Agilis Cross Climate camper tyre was quite different plus saw a couple of videos that convinced me it was worth giving them a go even though I still had 5mm tread on each tyre of the original tyres. I immediately noticed the difference even when empty on the ride - handling and ride quality. Been out for a few weeks loaded up and again the ride was significantly different than the Agilis. Both on minor roads and motorways. Not really put it through its paces regarding grip yet but wet grass on a slight gradient there wasn’t an issue. As I mentioned earlier it is a CP tyre which was important as we have it laid up for 4 months at a time but I do move it every 2 or 3 weeks to overcome weight in one spot for a prolonged period. The recommend for the rear is 80 psi - I run it as 76. The front I run at 68. Again there seems to be a consensus of opinion that is based on the a Michelin Cross Climate as a Agilis specification not factoring in the non Agilis variant which is my issue particularly if you have a weight where CP maybe an advantage. I don’t want to compromise on any potential safety issues related to tyres. This is of course my own opinion. am not an expert, I am not a share holder in Michelin and can only put forward my own experience. I do not now need semi air which is a big bonus. So two different tyres Agilis Cross Climate CP and Cross Climate CP, both 3 peak - the latter is quite different.

 

[Krumpli]

Can anyone tell me what is "full air" and "semi-air"?
I am 80 years old and been motorhoming for a long time: I've never hear these expressions.

Ian

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[purple]

Ok, Ok - I know this topic has been posted about on numerous occasions so do apologise but I am seeking advise regarding improving the ride (to make it less crashy and harsh) in our McLouis 373. After much reading I have almost certainly narrowed my choice and specifically ask can anyone that may have changed from Michelin Agilis Campers (run at Michelin's crazy recommended pressures) to Continental VanContact Campers (run at Continental's much lower recommended pressures) post their opinion? Has it improved the ride or made little or no difference?
The MH is only 3 old and tyres have done under 2k miles but I'm prepared to pay for newer tyres if they do actually make a difference, hence my post. I have already had VB semi-air fitted to rear axle and uprated coils on the front. I have read hundreds of posts about the matter and appreciate that switching to C (instead of CP) tyres would probably give a better ride but if I ever need to explain my tyre choice to my insurance company (or the police) then personally I'd prefer to be able to point them to the actual tyre manufacturers' recommendations - and in correspondence with Continental they have recommended camper tyres for MHs. I also appreciate that full air would probably be better - but that's out of budget.
Thanks for any input.

I have continental motorhome tyre on mine running at 80psi hard ride, next time will change to Michelin next time

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

Can anyone tell me what is "full air" and "semi-air"?
I am 80 years old and been motorhoming for a long time: I've never hear these expressions.

Ian

At a guess, semi-air is air suspension on the rear axle(s) only, full air on both front and rear?

 

[pandas]

At a guess, semi-air is air suspension on the rear axle(s) only, full air on both front and rear?

And about £10k difference

 

[Krumpli]

At a guess, semi-air is air suspension on the rear axle(s) only, full air on both front and rear?

Thanks for that. I am not a doddering old fool. It's just that some subscribers use jargon known only to themselves.

 

[Verteuil Man]

How?

Road legal, weight and speed legal, correct size, correctly inflated, what could be the objection?

Possibly not designed for motorhomes?

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[A S R]

You need to check whatever tyre you get has the correct load rating or it will fail its next MOT.

 

[Just smiffy]

A factor may also be what is the view of your insurance provider. They normally like to have to tiniest of excuses not to pay out. If you have "none camper tyres" fitted would the object?

How do all those campervans manage that have “van with windows “ on they’re registration….

 

[Speve]

Thanks for that. I am not a doddering old fool. It's just that some subscribers use jargon known only to themselves.

I would say semi air is sometimes called air assist on back axle whereas full air is as it states fully automatic air suspension

 

[dunnah01]

Fit a Chinese TPMS and drop the pressures on whatever tyre you find has a hard ride. Keep an eye on the pressure and temp and you'll soon realise that all this is a non issue

 

[maison]

We went with Falken commercial tyres over Michelin CP tyres with no regrets - related thread…

Another vote for Falken All Season tyres. Much improved ride comfort.

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[stuartholmes]

Thanks for that. I am not a doddering old fool. It's just that some subscribers use jargon known only to themselves.

It is what RowleyBirkinQC said but also 'full air' means every wheel is totally connected to the corner above it through the air system & it can include automated levelling of the vehicle once parked whereas 'semi air' is just air assistance on the back with the ability to adjust for preferece depending on load & comfort but the main job of carrying weight remains with the metal springs.
I have the latter & it's very nice. I'd prefer the former but I have a lot of other uses for the £9-10k.

 

[enark]

I run Agileas CP at 75 rear and 67 front on a 4t van with Alko chassis and rear air and uprated front shocks.

Its pretty comfy on decent roads, rattles a bit on the M6 elevated through Birmingham, or any similar concrete road surface with expansion strips.

I probably will go for van tyres at the five year point, as CP reinforced sidewalls are for MHs that stand still for long periods? Mine dosent and when it does stand still its on the levelers.

 

[PeteandCher]

I've had my brand new 6m Malibu PVC for a few weeks now, and 2000 miles. The ride from the supplied Agilis CP tyres at 5.5 bar (80psi) as recommended by Fiat and Michelin is obviously very crashy and doesn't inspire much confidence handling wise. In addition we are quite light, weighbridge figures fully loaded for holiday were front 1740kg, rear 1460kg so less than that now as I am using the van quite a lot as a second car with obviously no holiday gear aboard. Looking into it i've found various pressure charts fom Tyresafe, Michelin and even downloaded one from Carthago that all suggest we should run them at 3.25 bar (47psi) front and 3.75 bar (54psi) rear based on our plated max of 1850 front and 2000 rear. They then add the proviso that if it is a motorhome rears should always be 5,5 bar, front can be as per the chart unless the converter specifies anything different. I think that Michelin are just covering themselves knowing that many large motorhomes will be overloaded especially at the rear so they don't want tyres failing and their reputation to suffer. Now as I am not an idiot and know what my van actually weighs I have been gradually reducing the pressure to see what happens, am down to about 4 bar all round and the ride has improved no end, and after a 50 mile trip on windy A roads I have checked tyre temperatures and they are hardly warm. I have read all the threads suggesting a change to C rather than CP tyres but am a bit reluctant to scrap £1000 worth of new tyres so I think I will persevere with running lower pressures for a while. However my TPMS system is going to have a hissy fit when I get it fixed, it packed up after a week and now just shows "TPMS unavailable". Is there a way on the latest Fiat to reset the pressures to what you want it to be or is it locked at 5.5 bar? One final question, bearing in mind our lightish weight would there be any benefit to fitting rear air bags in terms of ride comfort? All comments gratefully received!

 

[CAB96]

How do all those campervans manage that have “van with windows “ on they’re registration….

Just fine on Commercial Van Tyres thank you!

Michelin Agilis Cross Climates, if you want to know!

And even if you didn't

 

[treblid]

No went from Michelin Cross Climate cross climate Agilis which was a CP tyre.

You are confusing me if not anyone else! I cannot follow your explanation.
The Agilis CrossClimate is NOT a CP tyre. It is a Van commercial C tyre. (Which I prefer).
The CrossClimate Camping IS a CP tyre.

Please see the 2 data sheet screenshots below.

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[JollyMazza]

Well all very interesting, our Fiat Burstner handles much firmer than my VW Crafter work van.
The front Hifly? C tyres are close to the end, Rear Continental CPs fine(air assist 3.5bar), thinking I'll replace the fronts with Continental CPs but maybe Falkens, 4.8 & 5.3 bar, currently, I look at the wear on the tyres and adjust accordingly.
Tyres and pressures sure is nerdy!
But I'm looking forward to your collective advice to confuse me!

 

[PaulW2]

Crossclimate Camping (225/75 R16) looks cheaper in the 118 rating than the 116 rating. I wonder why that would be?

 

[pandas]

You are confusing me if not anyone else! I cannot follow your explanation.
The Agilis CrossClimate is NOT a CP tyre. It is a Van commercial C tyre. (Which I prefer).
The CrossClimate Camping IS a CP tyre.

Please see the 2 data sheet screenshots below.
View attachment 971128

View attachment 971129

Okay apologies to have confused you, and everyone else, - my original tyres were Michelin Agilis Camping CP - very hard drive. The Michelin cross climate camping CP is perfect.

 

[VXman]

At a guess, semi-air is air suspension on the rear axle(s) only, full air on both front and rear?

And about £10k difference

Rear air bags are pretty inexpensive and easy to fit whereas the front suspension is more complex hence the price difference.

 

[Dean14]

Okay apologies to have confused you, and everyone else, - my original tyres were Michelin Agilis Camping CP - very hard drive. The Michelin cross climate camping CP is perfect.

Pandas - "perfect"? So presumably a much better ride. Are you running the cross climate Campers at the same psi that you ran your Agilis Campers at? And is that the recommended 5.5bar on the rear and similar up front?

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[Swamp]

I've had my brand new 6m Malibu PVC for a few weeks now, and 2000 miles. The ride from the supplied Agilis CP tyres at 5.5 bar (80psi) as recommended by Fiat and Michelin is obviously very crashy and doesn't inspire much confidence handling wise. In addition we are quite light, weighbridge figures fully loaded for holiday were front 1740kg, rear 1460kg so less than that now as I am using the van quite a lot as a second car with obviously no holiday gear aboard. Looking into it i've found various pressure charts fom Tyresafe, Michelin and even downloaded one from Carthago that all suggest we should run them at 3.25 bar (47psi) front and 3.75 bar (54psi) rear based on our plated max of 1850 front and 2000 rear. They then add the proviso that if it is a motorhome rears should always be 5,5 bar, front can be as per the chart unless the converter specifies anything different. I think that Michelin are just covering themselves knowing that many large motorhomes will be overloaded especially at the rear so they don't want tyres failing and their reputation to suffer. Now as I am not an idiot and know what my van actually weighs I have been gradually reducing the pressure to see what happens, am down to about 4 bar all round and the ride has improved no end, and after a 50 mile trip on windy A roads I have checked tyre temperatures and they are hardly warm. I have read all the threads suggesting a change to C rather than CP tyres but am a bit reluctant to scrap £1000 worth of new tyres so I think I will persevere with running lower pressures for a while. However my TPMS system is going to have a hissy fit when I get it fixed, it packed up after a week and now just shows "TPMS unavailable". Is there a way on the latest Fiat to reset the pressures to what you want it to be or is it locked at 5.5 bar? One final question, bearing in mind our lightish weight would there be any benefit to fitting rear air bags in terms of ride comfort? All comments gratefully received!

I’ve also been wondering about the TPMS system on the 2024 Fiat Ducato and whether it can be reset to a lower target pressure than 80psi?

 

[Gunnster]

With regards to cp versus c rated tyres has anybody noticed ford based motorhomes seem to have c rated comercial tyres from new?

 

[funflair]

With regards to cp versus c rated tyres has anybody noticed ford based motorhomes seem to have c rated comercial tyres from new?

They are not the only ones, Morelo, Concorde, N+B fit C rated tyres on their 7500kg vans and have for years.

 

[CAB96]

Crossclimate Camping (225/75 R16) looks cheaper in the 118 rating than the 116 rating. I wonder why that would be?

It's often the case I have found, maybe it's just volumes manufactured?

 

[Bertilak]

As an off-topic anecdote, about 30 years ago I went to a tech evening from Michelin...
One item that caught my imagination was the fact that the tyre from a Renault 5 (c1 tonne all up, 120 mph if a turbo) was also used on a Mirage fighter, (with 6 tonnes on three wheels, and probably 200mph...) . Fine as it only does that speed for a few seconds... (on the ground, obviously)
The problems came when gung-ho pilots gave it some speed taxi-ing round the perimeter track...

-so whilst your tyres have to be rated for the maximum load and speed, what do you actually drive at?