Tyres? Yes, sorry, yet another post about tyre choice ;-)

[Dean14]

Ok, Ok - I know this topic has been posted about on numerous occasions so do apologise but I am seeking advise regarding improving the ride (to make it less crashy and harsh) in our McLouis 373. After much reading I have almost certainly narrowed my choice and specifically ask can anyone that may have changed from Michelin Agilis Campers (run at Michelin's crazy recommended pressures) to Continental VanContact Campers (run at Continental's much lower recommended pressures) post their opinion? Has it improved the ride or made little or no difference?
The MH is only 3 old and tyres have done under 2k miles but I'm prepared to pay for newer tyres if they do actually make a difference, hence my post. I have already had VB semi-air fitted to rear axle and uprated coils on the front. I have read hundreds of posts about the matter and appreciate that switching to C (instead of CP) tyres would probably give a better ride but if I ever need to explain my tyre choice to my insurance company (or the police) then personally I'd prefer to be able to point them to the actual tyre manufacturers' recommendations - and in correspondence with Continental they have recommended camper tyres for MHs. I also appreciate that full air would probably be better - but that's out of budget.
Thanks for any input.

 

[Lenny HB]

Changing to C tyres or fitting full air gives about the same level of comfort improvement.
I did both on my last van. I fitted Toyo Observe Van a winter tyre but worked well in summer and a lot cheaper than Conties. Lots of Funsters run Faulken all season tyres with good results.

 

[funflair]

Why not drop the pressures on the Michelins for a little run out and see what difference that makes, then if you like the result but not happy running below recommended pressure you could then switch to C tyre from somebody more sensible than Michelin.

 

[Garry - June]

Are you seriously suggesting that by fitting Commercial C tyres you will somehow run in to difficulties with the Police or Insurance..

 

[funflair]

Are you seriously suggesting that by fitting Commercial C tyres you will somehow run in to difficulties with the Police or Insurance..

Not sure who that question is aimed at

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[Garry - June]

Not sure who that question is aimed at

It was a statement made in the original post..

 

[funflair]

It was a statement made in the original post..

Ah I see thanks.

 

[gus-lopez]

tyres would probably give a better ride but if I ever need to explain my tyre choice to my insurance company (

As long as they are legal,can carry the weight & are inflated to a reasonable pressure for the ride. neither of the aforementioned have an opìnion .

 

[Gellyneck]

Changing to C tyres or fitting full air gives about the same level of comfort improvement.
I did both on my last van.

That's why he's always snoozing with his feet up on the dashboard when driving!

 

[PaulW2]

That does raise an interesting question. All tyres are comfortable at very low pressures and none are at very high pressures. So how much is due to the tyre and how much due to the pressure?

I would guess it's probably mostly pressure that makes the difference (with some also due to the rigidity of camper tyre sidewalls) and that different tyres will then differ most decisively on performance - wet and dry braking, handling, aquaplaning resistance and so on.

The tyre's maximum pressure is, I think, usually reserved for running at its maximum load rating. At lower weights one can run at lower pressure.

I have 116 load rating tyres and could in theory have a 5 ton van on them. But mine is 3.5t and the maximum rear axle weight is 2,000.

So I could run softer. In practice, calculators such as Tyresafe still insist on 80 psi at the rear. I run at 65 in front and 75 at the back and this seems to be ok. I think it's mainly the front pressure that affects my comfort while driving. It's fine as I have it. Not a limousine but also not a truck.

For the rest I'm mainly interested in the 'other' stuff as measured by those who do the comparisons - braking, handling, even tyre durability, fuel consumption, noise - rather than absolute subjective comfort while driving.

(Edit: Some vehicles - for example my previous Iveco-based coachbuilt - are underbraked to the point where it's not tyre adhesion that is the limiting factor in braking performance. Or so top-heavy that it's not measured tyre handling performance that is the limiting factor there. Or used for such low mileages that measured tyre durability, and even fuel consumption, is almost irrelevant. My current van, and my use of it, isn't like that and so all these metrics do matter to me.

Edit 2: A related point is that trucks - actual, proper lorries - have pretty good brakes. Some motorhomes, on van underpinnings, don't. It would be quite interesting to understand the relative performance of different motorhomes on such vehicle safety metrics - braking, handling etc.)

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[dunnah01]

I know someone who runs their Michelin Agilis CP tyres at around 60psi on the rear weighed 2.2t axle. 30K miles and 3 years later they're still here to tell the tale. Much improved ride over the 80psi required on the ALKO chassis so probably the same on the Fiat chassis.

 

[Speve]

So I could run softer. In practice, calculators such as Tyresafe still insist on 80 psi at the rear. I run at 65 in front and 75 at the back and this seems to be ok. I think it's mainly the front pressure that affects my comfort while driving. It's fine as I have it. Not a limousine but also not a truck.

We have had mich Agilis camping on our last van and also the existing one until last year when I changed for mich Agilis crossclimate van.
I would have to say that we always tow a car trailer and when fully loaded a tyre pressure on CP tyres rear of 80psi was acceptable as with the weight of the trailer they gave a smoother ride however the front end used to be a very hard ride so front end were kept a 65psi which made that more comfortable.
With the New Cross climates I still keep around the same pressures but they make a much improved ride all together.
We do have Goldschmidt full air which helps as well

 

[headlight]

Ok, Ok - I know this topic has been posted about on numerous occasions so do apologise but I am seeking advise regarding improving the ride (to make it less crashy and harsh) in our McLouis 373. After much reading I have almost certainly narrowed my choice and specifically ask can anyone that may have changed from Michelin Agilis Campers (run at Michelin's crazy recommended pressures) to Continental VanContact Campers (run at Continental's much lower recommended pressures) post their opinion? Has it improved the ride or made little or no difference?
The MH is only 3 old and tyres have done under 2k miles but I'm prepared to pay for newer tyres if they do actually make a difference, hence my post. I have already had VB semi-air fitted to rear axle and uprated coils on the front. I have read hundreds of posts about the matter and appreciate that switching to C (instead of CP) tyres would probably give a better ride but if I ever need to explain my tyre choice to my insurance company (or the police) then personally I'd prefer to be able to point them to the actual tyre manufacturers' recommendations - and in correspondence with Continental they have recommended camper tyres for MHs. I also appreciate that full air would probably be better - but that's out of budget.
Thanks for any input.

So have either your insurers or the Police told you that you will have insurance problems or legal problems running van tyres ?
I've just fitted Kumho 4 season van tyres all round about 6 weeks ago.
2 trips so far on them and the difference is like night and day.
Smoother ride, better grip and quieter.
I got off very wet grass first trip with them easily, I definitely would have struggled with the old tyres.
I'm running 50psi front and 60psi rear which are the recommended pressures for my axle weights on a 6m, 3,400kg coach built.

 

[Verteuil Man]

Continental Camper. Weigh your motorhome as you would normally load it and get the weight of the front, rear axles and the gross weight overall. Call Continental Tech on 01788 566240 give them the axle weights and they will tell you the best pressure. My pressures are 48 psi on all 3 axles which is a lot less than Hymer and Alko suggest.

 

[Fdhadi]

About this time last year I went with LennyHB’s suggestion and fitted Toyo Observe Van tyres.
Very happy with them and excellent price

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[Mleabon]

My C rated winter tyres give a slightly better ride than my CP rated summer tyres. Both Michelin Agilis.

 

[rb62]

Not heard any complaints from anyone who's gone with Maxxis AS/AL 2 all seasons three peaks marked,yet

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/search/711926/?q=Maxxis+AS%2FAL2&o=relevance

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

We went with Falken commercial tyres over Michelin CP tyres with no regrets - related thread…

Read quite a few posts about people seriously considering these. If anyone could give me some feedback on what they think of them I'd be most grateful. I'm reluctant to go down the Michelin route having read more negative views than positive, I guess other option might be the Continental Van Contact 4Season.

 

[Dean14]

We went with Falken commercial tyres over Michelin CP tyres with

Thanks all for your various comments. In reply to one or 2 queries regarding my hesitation to use C rated tyres - no I haven't had my insurance company (or the police) state that C rated tyres are not acceptable - but neither have I been able to gain confirmation that they will be either. In all the many many posts I have read I have also not seen any one offer anything other than a personal opinion on the matter. Does anyone actually have anything 'official' to confirm their opinion? My concern is that the MH was supplied with CP tyres and it might be considered that it should therefore be fitted with CP tyres when replaced. My own insurance company have replied in a cop-out style that the tyres must be suitable for the vehicle, its weight and length. Hence my concern.
Verteuil Man - can I ask how do you find the Continental Campers? Is it an improved ride?
The Faulken tyres look a good option if I can convince myself to come away from CP rated - which I am erring towards purely on the weight of opinion, it seems MOST people on here are running C rated tyres on their MHs. Be interesting to get some kind of statistic.

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

As far as I know, there is no police enforcement of C vs CP tyres relative to Motorhome model which could have been provided with either type when sold new. Unless explicitly prohibited, I don’t think there can be a legal issue as long as the tyres have the correct load/speed rating for the vehicle and are of roadworthy condition. In some countries, there may also be the consideration of season specific tyres when used. But I make no claim to be an expert.

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[headlight]

Thanks all for your various comments. In reply to one or 2 queries regarding my hesitation to use C rated tyres - no I haven't had my insurance company (or the police) state that C rated tyres are not acceptable - but neither have I been able to gain confirmation that they will be either. In all the many many posts I have read I have also not seen any one offer anything other than a personal opinion on the matter. Does anyone actually have anything 'official' to confirm their opinion? My concern is that the MH was supplied with CP tyres and it might be considered that it should therefore be fitted with CP tyres when replaced. My own insurance company have replied in a cop-out style that the tyres must be suitable for the vehicle, its weight and length. Hence my concern.
Verteuil Man - can I ask how do you find the Continental Campers? Is it an improved ride?
The Faulken tyres look a good option if I can convince myself to come away from CP rated - which I am erring towards purely on the weight of opinion, it seems MOST people on here are running C rated tyres on their MHs. Be interesting to get some kind of statistic.

I must admit that in line with what you have said yourself above, you are the only person that thinks there could be insurance or police issues if you fit van tyres.
As long as the tyres are suitably rated for your vehicle there is no issue.
Plenty of vans come with van tyres not camper tyres from new.
Not one reply has stated that they have switched from camper to van tyres and regretted it, I think you have your answer.

 

[pandas]

Yes try the lower pressure but be aware of heat gain and wear. We wanted to keep with a CP tyre as several manufacturers has said they are designed specifically for motorhomes, stronger side walls m. We swapped our Mich Agilis all season to the Mich all season camper (CP) NOT Agilis, and the difference is quite significant. Not many here differentiate between the Agilis All season and the non Agilis for some reason? My own view keep with a CP tyre.

 

[headlight]

Yes try the lower pressure but be aware of heat gain and wear. We wanted to keep with a CP tyre as several manufacturers has said they are designed specifically for motorhomes, stronger side walls m. We swapped our Mich Agilis all season to the Mich all season camper (CP) NOT Agilis, and the difference is quite significant. Not many here differentiate between the Agilis All season and the non Agilis for some reason? My own view keep with a CP tyre.

Off course they say that, they're selling them.
And be very careful running tyres under inflated for the reasons you have stated.
The only advantage of CP tyres and their harder side walls is if the motorhome is parked up for months on end, which admittedly some motorhomes are, as they are less prone to deforming due to the stronger side walls.
However if you don't park your van up for months on end there is no issue.
But you have the disadvantage of a terrible ride due to the harder side walls as the OP has found.
My sister is just about to swap her 1 year old CP tyres for van tyres as she can't stand the harsh ride any longer and was amazed at the difference between the ride of my van tyre shod motorhome and her CP shod motorhome.
She will take her motorhome for a drive once a month over winter so the softer side walls will not be an issue for her.

 

[Jerrywh]

... but if I ever need to explain my tyre choice to my insurance company (or the police) then personally I'd prefer to be able to point them to the actual tyre manufacturers' recommendations ...

If what you fitted is legal, it is no business whatsoever of either of those organisations.

 

[bigtwin]

My concern is that the MH was supplied with CP tyres and it might be considered that it should therefore be fitted with CP tyres when replaced.

Others are supplied with C tyres which should provide you with some reassurance that CP tyres are not mandatory.

relative to Motorhome model which could have been provided with either type when sold new.

Indeed.

Plenty of vans come with van tyres not camper tyres from new.

Indeed.

Ian

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[pandas]

Off course they say that, they're selling them.
And be very careful running tyres under inflated for the reasons you have stated.
The only advantage of CP tyres and their harder side walls is if the motorhome is parked up for months on end, which admittedly some motorhomes are, as they are less prone to deforming due to the stronger side walls.
However if you don't park your van up for months on end there is no issue.
But you have the disadvantage of a terrible ride due to the harder side walls as the OP has found.
My sister is just about to swap her 1 year old CP tyres for van tyres as she can't stand the harsh ride any longer and was amazed at the difference between the ride of my van tyre shod motorhome and her CP shod motorhome.
She will take her motorhome for a drive once a month over winter so the softer side walls will not be an issue for her.

The OP has an issue as they have the Agilis. My point, where I seem to be pushing water up hill with a fork, is the the Mich Non Agilis is a very different tyre and in my experience has the advantages of being a much better ride whilst still being a CP rated tyre - important for us as it can be 4 months without use.

 

[Mleabon]

Thanks all for your various comments. In reply to one or 2 queries regarding my hesitation to use C rated tyres - no I haven't had my insurance company (or the police) state that C rated tyres are not acceptable - but neither have I been able to gain confirmation that they will be either. In all the many many posts I have read I have also not seen any one offer anything other than a personal opinion on the matter. Does anyone actually have anything 'official' to confirm their opinion? My concern is that the MH was supplied with CP tyres and it might be considered that it should therefore be fitted with CP tyres when replaced. My own insurance company have replied in a cop-out style that the tyres must be suitable for the vehicle, its weight and length. Hence my concern.
Verteuil Man - can I ask how do you find the Continental Campers? Is it an improved ride?
The Faulken tyres look a good option if I can convince myself to come away from CP rated - which I am erring towards purely on the weight of opinion, it seems MOST people on here are running C rated tyres on their MHs. Be interesting to get some kind of statistic.

If you went to Austria in the winter you would have to have winter tyres. I don't know of any CP winter tyres. They are all C rated. So you would need them to be legal. I'm sure the insurance company would insist on being legal.

 

[treblid]

We swapped our Mich Agilis all season to the Mich all season camper (CP) NOT Agilis, and the difference is quite significant.

I presume you mean you went from Michelin Agilis CrossClimates (C) to Michelin CrossClimate Camper (CP) tyres?

Could you please elaborate on the "significant" difference?

 

[Verteuil Man]

A factor may also be what is the view of your insurance provider. They normally like to have to tiniest of excuses not to pay out. If you have "none camper tyres" fitted would the object?

 

[CAB96]

A factor may also be what is the view of your insurance provider. They normally like to have to tiniest of excuses not to pay out. If you have "none camper tyres" fitted would the object?

How?

Road legal, weight and speed legal, correct size, correctly inflated, what could be the objection?