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DBK
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That's excellent news, thank you. The website for the museum is no help as its "under construction" too.
Two Potter Around Northern France
- Thread starter DBK
- Start date
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DBK
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A frustrating "bird" moment on my first walk this morning. I thought it was a Lesser spotted woodpecker at first but then realised it was too big but it looked small and lightly built. It flitted between the top branches of several tall trees but the light was useless to see more than an outline. It might have been a middle spotted woodpecker as location and habitat was about right but it can only be recorded as a "possible".
But back to the historical stuff.
I suppose we finished the most interesting part of our journey following in the footsteps of Henry V's army today.
As a reminder, the last few days have been spent following the south bank of the Somme.
We started at Saint Valery sur Somme, on the left of the map above, at the mouth of the Somme. We then headed east towards Abbeville, taking a side excursion and out of all order chronologically to follow in Edward III's footsteps to Crecy.
When Henry V skirted round the south of Amiens he played a blinder which threw off the French who had been tracking his progress. East of Amiens the Somme loops north up to Péronne then south again to near Nesle. Henry's masterstroke was to ignore this loop and strike directly east towards Nesle. This route took them over the Santerre Plateau, although it isn't much of an obvious plateau from our experience of driving over it today. The fields are just bigger and flatter "up" here than most we have seen.
When they reached Nesle, Henry sent a message to the townfolk which had worked on previous occasions : "Give us food and wine or we'll burn your houses down and kill you all". But here it didn't work and the town defied him.
Then events turned in Henry's favour. Two unguarded potential crossing points of the Somme had been found close by. There is speculation this information was leaked to Henry by the people of Nesle so he would go away. There is no proof of this but it makes a lot of sense.
The two crossing were used after some repair work, one for the waggons and horses and the other for those on foot. A few French scouts spotted them but they were chased away and an arc of archers was established on the far bank to provide cover as the army crossed.
The best contempory estimates of the location of these crossing points is somewhere around Béthencourt sur Somme, which you can see north east of Nesle on the D15 on the map below. We missed the turn off and took the D930C instead. The D15 approach is better.
The crossings have been replaced by a bridge.
And the river has been replaced by a canal with big barges!
We had lunch at the bridge and this might be a good wilding spot.
Except there is a free France Passion place close by, Les Canards de la Germaine, CC5402. There is a sign to this place beside the canal and it points down the track to the right of the green bin. The CC coords are off the road a couple of kilometres away and this is probably the best way to it although the canalside track looked interesting.
If you look at the map above again, after crossing the "river" we drove through Villecourt and then through Y. Yes, it really is a village with a one letter name, and I thought they were being mean with their letters in the town called "Eu". I'm now kicking myself for not getting a photograph of the sign as we entered the village.
A little beyond Y we pulled over to assess our route. I had hoped to reach Agincourt today but it was still over two hours away on the route I'd hoped to take. So instead we've swerved off to the south of Cambrai and the free aire at Banteux CC11934. We are supposed to be pottering.
For a place with free water and free electricity I was surprised to find it empty when we arrived.
But there are four of us now. Sadly, although sold as a canalside aire you can't see the water as it is behind a thick hedge.
So here are a few shots of lilies instead from our late afternoon walk by the canal. Tomorrow we should reach Agincourt.
The lilies are the yellow water lily or brandy-bottle, Nuphar lutea. They are native but I don't think Monet painted them.
But back to the historical stuff.
I suppose we finished the most interesting part of our journey following in the footsteps of Henry V's army today.
As a reminder, the last few days have been spent following the south bank of the Somme.
We started at Saint Valery sur Somme, on the left of the map above, at the mouth of the Somme. We then headed east towards Abbeville, taking a side excursion and out of all order chronologically to follow in Edward III's footsteps to Crecy.
When Henry V skirted round the south of Amiens he played a blinder which threw off the French who had been tracking his progress. East of Amiens the Somme loops north up to Péronne then south again to near Nesle. Henry's masterstroke was to ignore this loop and strike directly east towards Nesle. This route took them over the Santerre Plateau, although it isn't much of an obvious plateau from our experience of driving over it today. The fields are just bigger and flatter "up" here than most we have seen.
When they reached Nesle, Henry sent a message to the townfolk which had worked on previous occasions : "Give us food and wine or we'll burn your houses down and kill you all". But here it didn't work and the town defied him.
Then events turned in Henry's favour. Two unguarded potential crossing points of the Somme had been found close by. There is speculation this information was leaked to Henry by the people of Nesle so he would go away. There is no proof of this but it makes a lot of sense.
The two crossing were used after some repair work, one for the waggons and horses and the other for those on foot. A few French scouts spotted them but they were chased away and an arc of archers was established on the far bank to provide cover as the army crossed.
The best contempory estimates of the location of these crossing points is somewhere around Béthencourt sur Somme, which you can see north east of Nesle on the D15 on the map below. We missed the turn off and took the D930C instead. The D15 approach is better.
The crossings have been replaced by a bridge.
And the river has been replaced by a canal with big barges!
We had lunch at the bridge and this might be a good wilding spot.
Except there is a free France Passion place close by, Les Canards de la Germaine, CC5402. There is a sign to this place beside the canal and it points down the track to the right of the green bin. The CC coords are off the road a couple of kilometres away and this is probably the best way to it although the canalside track looked interesting.
If you look at the map above again, after crossing the "river" we drove through Villecourt and then through Y. Yes, it really is a village with a one letter name, and I thought they were being mean with their letters in the town called "Eu". I'm now kicking myself for not getting a photograph of the sign as we entered the village.
A little beyond Y we pulled over to assess our route. I had hoped to reach Agincourt today but it was still over two hours away on the route I'd hoped to take. So instead we've swerved off to the south of Cambrai and the free aire at Banteux CC11934. We are supposed to be pottering.
For a place with free water and free electricity I was surprised to find it empty when we arrived.
But there are four of us now. Sadly, although sold as a canalside aire you can't see the water as it is behind a thick hedge.
So here are a few shots of lilies instead from our late afternoon walk by the canal.
Tomorrow we should reach Agincourt. The lilies are the yellow water lily or brandy-bottle, Nuphar lutea. They are native but I don't think Monet painted them.
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DBK
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Quick edit, the aire here isn't free, a lady came around just now and collected €5 from everybody - but that's not too much.
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DBK
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Part 1
I forget to post the close-up map of where we were last night.
The reason for showing it now is because of where we went first after leaving the aire. If you follow the A2 south west from Cambrai you will see, just after it crosses the A26 the little village of Flesquirères.
Near here in 1998 a Mk IV tank was discovered buried in the ground. The discovery was down to Philippe Gorcynski who had heard rumours of a buried tank for years. But it wasn't until he met an elderly local lady who remembered as a teenager seeing a tank pushed into a hole by prisoners under orders from the Germans that he knew the stories were real. The tank was subsequently discovered and recently moved to a purpose made building beside the Flesquirères Hill war graves cemetery.
The floor of the display hall is 5m below the ground, but you will have to take that on trust because...
It is only open in the afternoon!
Cambrai was where massed tanks were used for the first time. This particular tank, called Deborah, was knocked out and five of her eight crew killed. They are buried in the cemetery next door. The tank had been displayed in a barn before it moved to its present quarters which were opened on 26 November 2017, the centenary of the Battle of Cambrai.
The tank was commanded by 2/Lt Frank Heap who survived and was awarded an MC for leading the other two surviving crew members to safety. The names of the five who died can be found online and no doubt are listed in the museum. We didn't search out their graves. They are not geocaches to be ticked off. All the men in that little walled plot of land are equal now. And a varied bunch they are, New Zealanders, several Able Seamen and a lot only "Known unto God". Mrs DBK spotted something about the latter we havn't noticed before, graves with the cap badge of the regiment but without a name for the soldier. I assume they were found amongst comrades who could be identified and it was taken they were from the same unit.
The cemetery is as always immaculately kept.
We left in sombre mood and moved on from a war a century ago back onto the trail of one six centuries in the past.
After crossing the Somme, Henry V headed north west towards Calais. In a quirk of fate the first part of his route took him along what was to become the Western Front in WW1. There are a lot of war graves if you drive this way.
As they approached the halfway point to Calais Henry's had another river to cross at Blangy sur Ternoise, and here that river is!
Rejoice! A river they haven't turned into a canal so it may look something like it did in 1415!
Part 2 to follow.
I forget to post the close-up map of where we were last night.
The reason for showing it now is because of where we went first after leaving the aire. If you follow the A2 south west from Cambrai you will see, just after it crosses the A26 the little village of Flesquirères.
Near here in 1998 a Mk IV tank was discovered buried in the ground. The discovery was down to Philippe Gorcynski who had heard rumours of a buried tank for years. But it wasn't until he met an elderly local lady who remembered as a teenager seeing a tank pushed into a hole by prisoners under orders from the Germans that he knew the stories were real. The tank was subsequently discovered and recently moved to a purpose made building beside the Flesquirères Hill war graves cemetery.
The floor of the display hall is 5m below the ground, but you will have to take that on trust because...
It is only open in the afternoon!
Cambrai was where massed tanks were used for the first time. This particular tank, called Deborah, was knocked out and five of her eight crew killed. They are buried in the cemetery next door. The tank had been displayed in a barn before it moved to its present quarters which were opened on 26 November 2017, the centenary of the Battle of Cambrai.
The tank was commanded by 2/Lt Frank Heap who survived and was awarded an MC for leading the other two surviving crew members to safety. The names of the five who died can be found online and no doubt are listed in the museum. We didn't search out their graves. They are not geocaches to be ticked off. All the men in that little walled plot of land are equal now. And a varied bunch they are, New Zealanders, several Able Seamen and a lot only "Known unto God". Mrs DBK spotted something about the latter we havn't noticed before, graves with the cap badge of the regiment but without a name for the soldier. I assume they were found amongst comrades who could be identified and it was taken they were from the same unit.
The cemetery is as always immaculately kept.
We left in sombre mood and moved on from a war a century ago back onto the trail of one six centuries in the past.
After crossing the Somme, Henry V headed north west towards Calais. In a quirk of fate the first part of his route took him along what was to become the Western Front in WW1. There are a lot of war graves if you drive this way.
As they approached the halfway point to Calais Henry's had another river to cross at Blangy sur Ternoise, and here that river is!
Rejoice! A river they haven't turned into a canal so it may look something like it did in 1415!
Part 2 to follow.
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OP
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DBK
LIFE MEMBER
Part 2
As Henry's army advanced north after crossing the Ternoise River, on a bridge so they at least had dry feet, they learned the main French army was ahead blocking their path. Much chivalrous stuff then went on between the two sides, with heralds acting like modern mobile phones, passing information between the two armies.
And it was decided there would be a battle.
I could write at length about the battle but it is all available on line. The French, in a re-run of Crecy attacked uphill in a disorganised fashion. The English archers inflicted terrible damage. It wasn't an easy victory, the French almost broke through at one point. Later, fearing a counter-attack, Henry V ordered all the prisoners captured to be killed. It was ruthless but it freed up men guarding prisoners so they could fight. Horrific to our sensibilities now, the contemporary writers didn't think it anything out of the ordinary. Brutal times.
We headed first for the new museum.
It opens next Tuesday.
Story of the day so far.
We then drove to a new observation platform.
From where you can see some fields.
And there's the problem. Folk have spent days and weeks waving metal detectors over these fields and still not a single arrowhead has been found. Tens of thousands were fired and the analysis from UK battlefields where arrows were fired is if you are in the right spot you will find arrowheads.
The battle happened around here but from my reading not exactly here. This is because the accounts of the battle say the French attacked over soft ground but also uphill. There are no hills on the site of the battle as described by the notice boards around Agincourt. .
The new ideas put the battle a kilometre or so from here but I'm no expert so will wait until, and if, the academics come to a conclusion.
Leaving Agincourt and its closed museum we encountered a chap walking by the side of the road who gestured us to stop.
Whether his car, van or truck had broken down we didn't discover. But we did get a great French lesson in the fifteen minutes it took us to drive him to St Pol, the nearest town. He spoke non-stop in rapid French the whole time. From this we worked he liked cross-country, his parents were Italian and came from Sardinia and David Bedford, the runner, was a great bloke. The rest, 99%, went over our heads.
We have stopped tonight in a curious aire in Grenay, CC54837, east of Lens and deep in coal mining territory.
Curious because it only has 3 official spaces but there are five of us here already tonight and room for a couple more at least! Free including electric but €2.75 for a water jeton if you need it from the boulangerie across the road. Their tartiflette tatins are very nice.
As Henry's army advanced north after crossing the Ternoise River, on a bridge so they at least had dry feet, they learned the main French army was ahead blocking their path. Much chivalrous stuff then went on between the two sides, with heralds acting like modern mobile phones, passing information between the two armies.
And it was decided there would be a battle.
I could write at length about the battle but it is all available on line. The French, in a re-run of Crecy attacked uphill in a disorganised fashion. The English archers inflicted terrible damage. It wasn't an easy victory, the French almost broke through at one point. Later, fearing a counter-attack, Henry V ordered all the prisoners captured to be killed. It was ruthless but it freed up men guarding prisoners so they could fight. Horrific to our sensibilities now, the contemporary writers didn't think it anything out of the ordinary. Brutal times.
We headed first for the new museum.
It opens next Tuesday.
Story of the day so far.
We then drove to a new observation platform.
From where you can see some fields.
And there's the problem. Folk have spent days and weeks waving metal detectors over these fields and still not a single arrowhead has been found. Tens of thousands were fired and the analysis from UK battlefields where arrows were fired is if you are in the right spot you will find arrowheads.
The battle happened around here but from my reading not exactly here. This is because the accounts of the battle say the French attacked over soft ground but also uphill. There are no hills on the site of the battle as described by the notice boards around Agincourt. .
The new ideas put the battle a kilometre or so from here but I'm no expert so will wait until, and if, the academics come to a conclusion.
Leaving Agincourt and its closed museum we encountered a chap walking by the side of the road who gestured us to stop.
Whether his car, van or truck had broken down we didn't discover. But we did get a great French lesson in the fifteen minutes it took us to drive him to St Pol, the nearest town. He spoke non-stop in rapid French the whole time. From this we worked he liked cross-country, his parents were Italian and came from Sardinia and David Bedford, the runner, was a great bloke. The rest, 99%, went over our heads.
We have stopped tonight in a curious aire in Grenay, CC54837, east of Lens and deep in coal mining territory.
Curious because it only has 3 official spaces but there are five of us here already tonight and room for a couple more at least! Free including electric but €2.75 for a water jeton if you need it from the boulangerie across the road. Their tartiflette tatins are very nice.
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Lenny HB
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Stayed there on my solo trip in May, the jetons are actually free from the boulangerie. Shame there is nothing in the town worth visiting apart from the Aldi the other side of the railway.Curious because it only has 3 official spaces but there are five of us here already tonight and room for a couple more at least! Free including electric but €2.75 for a water jeton if you need it from the boulangerie across the road. Their tartiflette tatins are very nice.
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DBK
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It's an odd place, a little patch of greenery surrounded by buildings. There's a tap which doesn't need a jeton and even an outdoor and presumably cold shower just beyond the service point for the FLTs.Stayed there on my solo trip in May, the jetons are actually free from the boulangerie. Shame there is nothing in the town worth visiting apart from the Aldi the otherside of the railway.
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DBK
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This is a "message in a bottle" post to show we are still here.
The surroundings were very built up and industrial after we left the the last place but eventually we moved into more open country. The satnav decided we we needed to visit Belgium so we did and at first I thought we had discovered the one region of Belgium without potholes. Wrong, we were soon clamping down on our fillings but it wasn't too bad, almost reminded us of home.
We've stopped at the edge of the Ardennes.
And that's about it really. It drizzled all day yesterday but today has been sunshine.
We are close to part of the Maginot line and plan to walk there tomorrow. Camping du Pavillon, CC56041. A delightful place
Charlie may have a few more more snippets in his blog later.
The surroundings were very built up and industrial after we left the the last place but eventually we moved into more open country. The satnav decided we we needed to visit Belgium so we did and at first I thought we had discovered the one region of Belgium without potholes. Wrong, we were soon clamping down on our fillings but it wasn't too bad, almost reminded us of home.
We've stopped at the edge of the Ardennes.
And that's about it really. It drizzled all day yesterday but today has been sunshine.
We are close to part of the Maginot line and plan to walk there tomorrow. Camping du Pavillon, CC56041. A delightful place
Charlie may have a few more more snippets in his blog later.
OP
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DBK
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On another warm sunny day and a complete contrast to the drizzle of Friday we went on our planned walk to see part of the Maginot line this morning.
The Maginot line was a series of defences built in the late 30s to prevent an attack by Germany into North East France. It wasn't, despite its name, a single line of defences and it was constructed with some depth in places. The strongest fortifications are East of here. The defences in the west are weaker because it was thought the hilly terrain of the Ardennes forest would thwart any attack.
The Germany attack, when it came on 10 May 1940, swept through Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands and also from Belgium, South through the Ardennes and over the relatively poor defences here. In five days they had reach Dunkirk.
The defences around the section around here are comprised of concrete block houses and anti-tank ditches. Presumably the forest was cleared around them when they were built but they are now well overgrown.
This one was interesting because it shows damage from enemy fire. It was around here the Germans broke through the Line.
Note the hole in the ground below a round pipe exit above it. It is for collecting rainwater from the roof. More on this in a moment. It's a Pults de récupération des Douilles.
Through the damaged opening I could glimpse metal things inside.
And if I want to depress myself I only need to remember the above out of focus shot might have been the last photograph I ever took because seconds later, moving to get a better view, I fell into the hole. Fortunately, I was holding some of the exposed reinforcing bars and only fell down to my thighs, one of which is a bit bruised. I dread to think what the worst case might have been, does it go down to some deep underground and water filled cistern?
Best not to dwell too long on that.
The fortifications, when they are not trying to kill you are interesting. Each of the block houses has an information board beside it. They were only armed with a 25mm or 47mm weapon which wouldn't have had much effect, and they didn't.
There were also anti tank ditches.
Now a bit overgrown.
The easiest fortification to photograph was beside the road at the official start of the walk - we had joined it elsewhere.
It was a pleasant walk and not too warm although Charlie struggled towards the end.
Yesterday I had a good view of a Lesser Spotted Woodpecker beside the campsite. I watched it through binoculars for a while. I couldn't see any red on its head so probably a female. Today we spotted another but only because we'd stopped to try and identify a mystery bird. It was either a Marsh or a Willow Tit but they are very hard to separate, especially at my level of knowledge. The voice is a good identification point but this one and the several more we saw a little later were silent. Habitat also helps identification and given we were close to a stream and a little lake where alder was growing it was probably a Willow Tit.
While I was squinting at the mystery bird Mrs DBK heard a gentle tapping sound above us. Re-aiming the binoculars revealed another Lesser Spotted Woodpecker. They are not unlike the Greater version, but only the size of a Sparrow and much less robust. This one was flitting through branches, probing in lichen and under loose bark for insects and grubs.
Tomorrow I hope to stop at nearby Rocroi and look at the Vauban fort then we'll spend a day or so exploring the Meuse River.
The Maginot line was a series of defences built in the late 30s to prevent an attack by Germany into North East France. It wasn't, despite its name, a single line of defences and it was constructed with some depth in places. The strongest fortifications are East of here. The defences in the west are weaker because it was thought the hilly terrain of the Ardennes forest would thwart any attack.
The Germany attack, when it came on 10 May 1940, swept through Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands and also from Belgium, South through the Ardennes and over the relatively poor defences here. In five days they had reach Dunkirk.
The defences around the section around here are comprised of concrete block houses and anti-tank ditches. Presumably the forest was cleared around them when they were built but they are now well overgrown.
This one was interesting because it shows damage from enemy fire. It was around here the Germans broke through the Line.
Note the hole in the ground below a round pipe exit above it. It is for collecting rainwater from the roof. More on this in a moment. It's a Pults de récupération des Douilles.
Through the damaged opening I could glimpse metal things inside.
And if I want to depress myself I only need to remember the above out of focus shot might have been the last photograph I ever took because seconds later, moving to get a better view, I fell into the hole. Fortunately, I was holding some of the exposed reinforcing bars and only fell down to my thighs, one of which is a bit bruised. I dread to think what the worst case might have been, does it go down to some deep underground and water filled cistern?
Best not to dwell too long on that.
The fortifications, when they are not trying to kill you are interesting. Each of the block houses has an information board beside it. They were only armed with a 25mm or 47mm weapon which wouldn't have had much effect, and they didn't.
There were also anti tank ditches.
Now a bit overgrown.
The easiest fortification to photograph was beside the road at the official start of the walk - we had joined it elsewhere.
It was a pleasant walk and not too warm although Charlie struggled towards the end.
Yesterday I had a good view of a Lesser Spotted Woodpecker beside the campsite. I watched it through binoculars for a while. I couldn't see any red on its head so probably a female. Today we spotted another but only because we'd stopped to try and identify a mystery bird. It was either a Marsh or a Willow Tit but they are very hard to separate, especially at my level of knowledge. The voice is a good identification point but this one and the several more we saw a little later were silent. Habitat also helps identification and given we were close to a stream and a little lake where alder was growing it was probably a Willow Tit.
While I was squinting at the mystery bird Mrs DBK heard a gentle tapping sound above us. Re-aiming the binoculars revealed another Lesser Spotted Woodpecker. They are not unlike the Greater version, but only the size of a Sparrow and much less robust. This one was flitting through branches, probing in lichen and under loose bark for insects and grubs.
Tomorrow I hope to stop at nearby Rocroi and look at the Vauban fort then we'll spend a day or so exploring the Meuse River.
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Great pics and information as usual.
However,you’re bird identification needs honing. You should always claim that any bird sighted is the rarer of the two options......in this way you will impress your friends,relatives,neighbours,and many in the twitching community who claim they have seen a lesser spotted,black throated crested,cross billed shrike,when it’s actually just a sparrow.
And I would go for Willow Tit,coz it reminds me of the Flanders and Swan (I think) song.................
All together now..........
Used to make me chuckle when I was about 10 years old......sadly,it still does.
However,you’re bird identification needs honing.
You should always claim that any bird sighted is the rarer of the two options......in this way you will impress your friends,relatives,neighbours,and many in the twitching community who claim they have seen a lesser spotted,black throated crested,cross billed shrike,when it’s actually just a sparrow.And I would go for Willow Tit,coz it reminds me of the Flanders and Swan (I think) song.................
All together now..........
Used to make me chuckle when I was about 10 years old......sadly,it still does.
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scousebird
LIFE MEMBER
We stayed at Rocroi a couple of years ago. Nice aire but the town was a bit disappointing
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DBK
LIFE MEMBER
Before I forget a Tweet I read recently had a woodpecker angle.
Hummingbird: "I dance between the flowers sipping nectar in a silent ballet."
Woodpecker: "I'M GOING TO GET THIS GRUB OUT OF THE WOOD WITH MY KNIFE FACE!"
Hummingbird: "I dance between the flowers sipping nectar in a silent ballet."
Woodpecker: "I'M GOING TO GET THIS GRUB OUT OF THE WOOD WITH MY KNIFE FACE!"
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DBK
LIFE MEMBER
The name Rocroi had a familiar ring to it when I was posting last night. When we arrived there today I realised why - we have been there before and worryingly, it was only twelve months ago! The aire at Rocroi is a good one and worth trying if you are looking for somewhere to stop in the area. Sadly the town itself is a bit of a disappointment and despite being built inside a fort doesn't quite live up to expectations.
The fort was remodelled by Vauban and like most of his forts is almost impossible to photograph. In a sense this was deliberate because he designed them so you couldn't get a good view. If you could see the fort you could fire a cannon at it and this was the new threat these forts were designed to counter.
So unlike the earlier castles with their massive curtain walls these ones crouch low to the ground and hide behind earth banks and dry ditches.
I took this photo in 2018 when we first visited Rocroi.
We hadn't planned to stop at Rocroi but at Revin where the aire (CC48098) gets good reviews. Sadly, others had read the same reviews and it was full. It is a very short walk from a supermarket and a laundrette and I expect some folk stay here for long periods.
So we moved on further up river to Montheremé and CC5541.
Like the aire at Revin this is also beside the Meuse but costs €4.80 a night which might explain why it is busy but not full, the aire at Revin is free to stay with a charge only for water.
Though there are a few EHU posts here they were all taken but it was sunny for most of the day so our batteries are topped up.
This is where we are, still in the Ardennes.
And closer up.
We are on the inside of a big bend in the river.
Tomorrow we will go upstream a bit further, hopefully stopping at Sedan which has huge castle.
The aire at Rocroi is a good one and worth trying if you are looking for somewhere to stop in the area. Sadly the town itself is a bit of a disappointment and despite being built inside a fort doesn't quite live up to expectations.The fort was remodelled by Vauban and like most of his forts is almost impossible to photograph. In a sense this was deliberate because he designed them so you couldn't get a good view. If you could see the fort you could fire a cannon at it and this was the new threat these forts were designed to counter.
So unlike the earlier castles with their massive curtain walls these ones crouch low to the ground and hide behind earth banks and dry ditches.
I took this photo in 2018 when we first visited Rocroi.
We hadn't planned to stop at Rocroi but at Revin where the aire (CC48098) gets good reviews. Sadly, others had read the same reviews and it was full. It is a very short walk from a supermarket and a laundrette and I expect some folk stay here for long periods.
So we moved on further up river to Montheremé and CC5541.
Like the aire at Revin this is also beside the Meuse but costs €4.80 a night which might explain why it is busy but not full, the aire at Revin is free to stay with a charge only for water.
Though there are a few EHU posts here they were all taken but it was sunny for most of the day so our batteries are topped up.
This is where we are, still in the Ardennes.
And closer up.
We are on the inside of a big bend in the river.
Tomorrow we will go upstream a bit further, hopefully stopping at Sedan which has huge castle.
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OP
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DBK
LIFE MEMBER
There are no services at the aire we were on last night but there is a service point nearby, so after an obligatory pilgrimage there first thing this morning we drove for all of 45 minutes to Sedan and a fairly new CCP aire.
We are again next to the Meuse.
The river flows from bottom to top in the map above and drops a little in the loop. The waterway cutting the corner is a canal with a lock. Charlie and I had an interesting walk along it this afternoon which I'll come to soon.
The aire is a former municipal site.
A curious feature is CCP also operate the quay on the left where the boats moor. This aire also requires you to wave your CCP card over the EHU posts to get electric and at the services to get water. The notice board at the entrance also says to stay more than three nights you must reserve a pitch. I wonder if they are trying to encourage more people to register with their booking service, which costs more?
Of course they are!
The boat in the photo is the one just visible on the left of the image two above. It was crewed by two New Zealanders who were flying a renegade NZ ensign (flag) astern. About a year ago NZ held a vote on their national flag and the current one won. I prefer the renegade one which this piratical crew were flying. It consists of the silver fern and the four stars of the Southern Cross.
We chatted about "B" and how they found the French much friendlier once they realised they were not English.
But we had come here to see a castle, the Château Fort de Sedan, the largest fortress in Europe. And another very difficult to photograph. I couldn't get any decent shots from the outside as it is surrounded by trees and buildings so as you move away you lose sight of it. But we did wander inside.
It's seven stories high in places and has impressively high walls. You can get inside but tickets are €9.50 each and there isn't a lot of to see from what I'd read and Charlies were not admitted so we stayed in the courtyard.
What was vaguely interesting were several cars which must have been on trials for some manufacturer.
The top one is electric and was plugged in to a charging post on the far side. They had no identification as to who made them. They were German registered but I don't think they were being very secretative about what they were up to.
The plan of the castle had an interesting feature. Written in French of course but the second language used is Dutch not English.
This enscription near where we left the castle was somewhat sobering.
It records, amongst other things, the thousands of French and Belgian civilians condemned to hard/forced labour here for "acts of resistance". The last two lines say "Don't hate but don't forget".
Charlie and I went for a walk along the canal later where I saw the largest rat I've ever seen. I thought at first it was a mink or perhaps a coypu but as we got closer, a rat it was. A black one too, we will be checking ourselves for plague symptoms for the next few days.
We are again next to the Meuse.
The river flows from bottom to top in the map above and drops a little in the loop. The waterway cutting the corner is a canal with a lock. Charlie and I had an interesting walk along it this afternoon which I'll come to soon.
The aire is a former municipal site.
A curious feature is CCP also operate the quay on the left where the boats moor. This aire also requires you to wave your CCP card over the EHU posts to get electric and at the services to get water. The notice board at the entrance also says to stay more than three nights you must reserve a pitch. I wonder if they are trying to encourage more people to register with their booking service, which costs more?
Of course they are!
The boat in the photo is the one just visible on the left of the image two above. It was crewed by two New Zealanders who were flying a renegade NZ ensign (flag) astern. About a year ago NZ held a vote on their national flag and the current one won. I prefer the renegade one which this piratical crew were flying. It consists of the silver fern and the four stars of the Southern Cross.
We chatted about "B" and how they found the French much friendlier once they realised they were not English.
But we had come here to see a castle, the Château Fort de Sedan, the largest fortress in Europe. And another very difficult to photograph. I couldn't get any decent shots from the outside as it is surrounded by trees and buildings so as you move away you lose sight of it. But we did wander inside.
It's seven stories high in places and has impressively high walls. You can get inside but tickets are €9.50 each and there isn't a lot of to see from what I'd read and Charlies were not admitted so we stayed in the courtyard.
What was vaguely interesting were several cars which must have been on trials for some manufacturer.
The top one is electric and was plugged in to a charging post on the far side. They had no identification as to who made them. They were German registered but I don't think they were being very secretative about what they were up to.
The plan of the castle had an interesting feature. Written in French of course but the second language used is Dutch not English.
This enscription near where we left the castle was somewhat sobering.
It records, amongst other things, the thousands of French and Belgian civilians condemned to hard/forced labour here for "acts of resistance". The last two lines say "Don't hate but don't forget".
Charlie and I went for a walk along the canal later where I saw the largest rat I've ever seen. I thought at first it was a mink or perhaps a coypu but as we got closer, a rat it was. A black one too, we will be checking ourselves for plague symptoms for the next few days.
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OP
OP
DBK
LIFE MEMBER
Another short hop up the Meuse brought us to another waterside aire at Dun sur Meuse.
There's another well reviewed aire north of here at Senay which I did think of going to instead. It has a beer museum close by! But somewhere quieter sounded better, so here we are, and only just. There were only three spaces left when we arrived at 12:30 and it was soon full. A UK MH turned up mid-afternoon and went away disappointed.
This is where we are.
The second map is interesting. The redundant river loop is labeled the "Old Meuse" and this man made ox-bow lake is what is left after the river was turned into a canal.
Above the aire is a 14th century church.
And from up there this is the view.
The dark bar across the river/canal is the narrow bridge the photograph looking up was taken from. The white dots on the far right are MHs in the aire.
The hill with the church has ramparts and a walk going around them.
The area is being tidied up by volunteers I think.
It's not really visible in the photo above but half a dozen folk were cleaning up the weeds from around the walls and they weren't municipal folk but locals I think.
The church was impressive but how much of it is 14th century?
The clock tower was interesting. You could see it had once had a large clock on the face on the left looking towards the river but it had been removed. The repacement, on the side facing the camera was much smaller.and had a wooden face. It's mounted below the door shape between the two round holes.
Tomorrow we will head off to Verdun and the huge cemetery to the French WW1 dead.
There's another well reviewed aire north of here at Senay which I did think of going to instead. It has a beer museum close by! But somewhere quieter sounded better, so here we are, and only just. There were only three spaces left when we arrived at 12:30 and it was soon full. A UK MH turned up mid-afternoon and went away disappointed.
This is where we are.
The second map is interesting. The redundant river loop is labeled the "Old Meuse" and this man made ox-bow lake is what is left after the river was turned into a canal.
Above the aire is a 14th century church.
And from up there this is the view.
The dark bar across the river/canal is the narrow bridge the photograph looking up was taken from. The white dots on the far right are MHs in the aire.
The hill with the church has ramparts and a walk going around them.
The area is being tidied up by volunteers I think.
It's not really visible in the photo above but half a dozen folk were cleaning up the weeds from around the walls and they weren't municipal folk but locals I think.
The church was impressive but how much of it is 14th century?
The clock tower was interesting. You could see it had once had a large clock on the face on the left looking towards the river but it had been removed. The repacement, on the side facing the camera was much smaller.and had a wooden face. It's mounted below the door shape between the two round holes.
Tomorrow we will head off to Verdun and the huge cemetery to the French WW1 dead.
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Great thread as always.
UK M home should have asked the guy nearest to take his awning in!!
UK M home should have asked the guy nearest to take his awning in!!
OP
OP
DBK
LIFE MEMBER
Technically there was one space left but it was next to the bins. We wouldn't have used it but this aire now has marked bays so everyone fills their little plot.
The aires around here, or at least the good ones, are very popular, I wasn't expecting quite so many folk.
The aires around here, or at least the good ones, are very popular, I wasn't expecting quite so many folk.
OP
OP
DBK
LIFE MEMBER
We visited the vast French military cemetery near Verdun today. Verdun was the nearest town to a horrendous battle which lasted about a year, claiming around a million lives between 1916 - 1917 and is considered the most deadly battle of the Great War. But the battle wasn't confined to a single year,,there was fighting here from 1914 until 1918.
The cemetery is huge. It is divided into two halves. This is one.
The other half.
The structure in the background is the Ossuaire de Douaumont containing the bones of 130,000 dead.
The inside, where photography is prohibited, is lined with names of some of the fallen. The windows are glazed with an orange coloured glass which fills the space with a glowing light.
Unexpectedly to us there is a lot to see in the surrounding area. Nine villages were obliterated in the battle and what remains can now be visited. There was also a memorial built around the former trenches which we did visit.
After the war there was debate on what to with the site, in the end they decided to make it a forest.
There is a huge fort nearby you can explore with guided and audio tours plus Verdun itself is well worth a visit. It has a Rodin sculpture showing a winged Victory unable to take flight as she is encumbered by a dead soldier. Several museums to see as well.
In hindsight I hadn't read enough about this location to give it justice. I thought we were visiting a cemetery but there is much more here. It deserves a full day at least.
Tonight we have stopped "sur Meuse" again at the entirely free aire at Dieue sur Meuse, CC11676.
Which is here.
And closer up.
The last map shows we are beside the canal. The actual river, which really does look like a proper river here, is to the west.
The canal by the aire must be getting some maintenance as the level is down about a metre from what it should be, which you can see beyond the lock in this photo.
There are two marked walks around the village, which we did. But visit the tourist office first if you can and get their leaflet on the walks. We didn't but still managed them, but navigation was challenging at times.
The village was behind the front line and was used as an R&R centre for the troops and also had a hospital. Several thousand medical staff served here and in villages nearby. Those three hundred or so who did not live to see the end of the War remain in the small cemetery at the edge of the village.
The cemetery is huge. It is divided into two halves. This is one.
The other half.
The structure in the background is the Ossuaire de Douaumont containing the bones of 130,000 dead.
The inside, where photography is prohibited, is lined with names of some of the fallen. The windows are glazed with an orange coloured glass which fills the space with a glowing light.
Unexpectedly to us there is a lot to see in the surrounding area. Nine villages were obliterated in the battle and what remains can now be visited. There was also a memorial built around the former trenches which we did visit.
After the war there was debate on what to with the site, in the end they decided to make it a forest.
There is a huge fort nearby you can explore with guided and audio tours plus Verdun itself is well worth a visit. It has a Rodin sculpture showing a winged Victory unable to take flight as she is encumbered by a dead soldier. Several museums to see as well.
In hindsight I hadn't read enough about this location to give it justice. I thought we were visiting a cemetery but there is much more here. It deserves a full day at least.
Tonight we have stopped "sur Meuse" again at the entirely free aire at Dieue sur Meuse, CC11676.
Which is here.
And closer up.
The last map shows we are beside the canal. The actual river, which really does look like a proper river here, is to the west.
The canal by the aire must be getting some maintenance as the level is down about a metre from what it should be, which you can see beyond the lock in this photo.
There are two marked walks around the village, which we did. But visit the tourist office first if you can and get their leaflet on the walks. We didn't but still managed them, but navigation was challenging at times.
The village was behind the front line and was used as an R&R centre for the troops and also had a hospital. Several thousand medical staff served here and in villages nearby. Those three hundred or so who did not live to see the end of the War remain in the small cemetery at the edge of the village.
Lenny HB
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A lot of the places you have been to we did on our trip up the Meuse to the source from the Belgium border a couple of years ago. It was very interesting.
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Thanks DBK for that. In all my years of travelling over France I never realised how interesting Verdun was. It's gone to the top of my list for the future.
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DBK
LIFE MEMBER
It's an attractive river running through nice countryside but what seems to be missing are the pretty villages you find along the Lot and the Loire.
Lenny HB
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Very interesting thread, just read from start to finish.
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OP
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DBK
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We drove east today to Metz but given the weather forecast I think our next direction is going to be south. A final decision to be made tomorrow. But I'm fairly sure what direction we'll be going. Pottering around Southern France is more appealing than getting wet.
From which you can see we have now left the Meuse and have now latched on to the Moselle but I'm not sure how long we will be around this area because the former hurricane Humberto comes barrelling into Europe soon. More on this tomorrow I think, when we will have to make a decision.
Metz is at the confluence of the Moselle and Seille rivers although the former dominates the city, flowing through it in at least three major channels.
We are staying at Camping Municipal Metz which gets mixed reviews but for a large site a few minute's walk from the city centre it isn't a bad spot, just don't expect quiet here.
We made a quick sally into Metz this afternoon. We will spend longer tomorrow.
This is the Temple de Garnison, built in the 19th century it was damaged in WW1 then mostly destroyed in a fire in 1946. Only the spire/tower remains - but the clock stills works. It was indeed a quarter past three.
And nicely lit up at night I've just noticed. If I can remember I'll stagger out with a tripod tomorrow night.
There are twenty or so bridges across the rivers, it's a mini-Venice here.
This is the Place de la Comédie.
The Temple Neuf. Where the other 8 are remains a mystery.
The cathedral is very tall. We will visit it tomorrow minus Charlie. It's a high point of Gothic architecture apparently.
It is under a bit of maintenance.
The carvings above the doorway are amazing. Wrong light and wrong lens don't help in my photo.
Hard to see but in the bottom row folk are emerging from their coffins. This is Judgement Day. The figure in the middle of the second row is holding some scales, presumably St Peter. Those who fail judgment go to the right and are pushed naked into the mouth of a beast. Those passing the tests proceed left to heaven. I'll try for a better picture tomorrow. The carving is superb.
A more recent bit of carving was spotted by Mrs DBK. The effect of a tank or artillery round on the wall of the cathedral.
A final decision to be made tomorrow. But I'm fairly sure what direction we'll be going. Pottering around Southern France is more appealing than getting wet. From which you can see we have now left the Meuse and have now latched on to the Moselle but I'm not sure how long we will be around this area because the former hurricane Humberto comes barrelling into Europe soon. More on this tomorrow I think, when we will have to make a decision.
Metz is at the confluence of the Moselle and Seille rivers although the former dominates the city, flowing through it in at least three major channels.
We are staying at Camping Municipal Metz which gets mixed reviews but for a large site a few minute's walk from the city centre it isn't a bad spot, just don't expect quiet here.
We made a quick sally into Metz this afternoon. We will spend longer tomorrow.
This is the Temple de Garnison, built in the 19th century it was damaged in WW1 then mostly destroyed in a fire in 1946. Only the spire/tower remains - but the clock stills works. It was indeed a quarter past three.
And nicely lit up at night I've just noticed. If I can remember I'll stagger out with a tripod tomorrow night.
There are twenty or so bridges across the rivers, it's a mini-Venice here.
This is the Place de la Comédie.
The Temple Neuf. Where the other 8 are remains a mystery.
The cathedral is very tall. We will visit it tomorrow minus Charlie. It's a high point of Gothic architecture apparently.
It is under a bit of maintenance.
The carvings above the doorway are amazing. Wrong light and wrong lens don't help in my photo.
Hard to see but in the bottom row folk are emerging from their coffins. This is Judgement Day. The figure in the middle of the second row is holding some scales, presumably St Peter. Those who fail judgment go to the right and are pushed naked into the mouth of a beast. Those passing the tests proceed left to heaven. I'll try for a better picture tomorrow. The carving is superb.
A more recent bit of carving was spotted by Mrs DBK. The effect of a tank or artillery round on the wall of the cathedral.
OP
OP
DBK
LIFE MEMBER
We visited the cathedral this morning, it has a lot of stained glass windows, most fairly modern I think but overall it is a building more impressive on the outside than the inside. The inside is a bit gloomy and austere.
It is free to go in though.
But back outside I had another go at the carvings over the door.
Above you can see the dead coming back to life and on the row above what I assume is St Peter holding a pair scales.
The grey waste dribbles are then sorted out.
Mrs DBK, ever sharp-eyed spotted the signs of the Zodiac above our heads. Doesn't seem very Christian.
And the image is not upside down, if you looked up coming out of the Cathedral it would be the right way round.
We then visited the Porte des Allemands.
The River Sielle flows under it which is why these toilets were built over it.
Inside some folk had dressed up and had rapiers but they seem to be having a break during our visit from whatever they were supposed to be doing.
There is a 4 km walk around the remains of the ramparts. We did a bit of it and I recommend you give it a go if you come this way. It gets you away from the crowds.
We came across this bit of sculpture on the path. On the other side of the path was a similar slab but the mirror image so the speak. What protruded on this one was a depression on the other. I've also just noticed this must be the reverse side because the signature in the bottom left is mirrored.
The arches under the buildings you can see here are former mills.
Metz is big on contemporary art and at the Place de la Comédie some more art has been installed.
On reflection the first one might be just where a skip was tipped.
There was a market going on near the cathedral and the covered market nearby is worth visiting. Very good quality fish, meat, veg and cheese on sale and busy with folk buying stuff, not just rubber-necking tourists like us.
Laundry completed we are off south tomorrow, aiming for somewhere south of Dijon, then another drive the next day. From the forecast we need to get down to at least Lyon to escape the worst of the coming weather.
Metz is worth visiting but the site and aire here are not the nicest but they serve a purpose.
It is free to go in though.
But back outside I had another go at the carvings over the door.
Above you can see the dead coming back to life and on the row above what I assume is St Peter holding a pair scales.
The grey waste dribbles are then sorted out.
Mrs DBK, ever sharp-eyed spotted the signs of the Zodiac above our heads. Doesn't seem very Christian.
And the image is not upside down, if you looked up coming out of the Cathedral it would be the right way round.
We then visited the Porte des Allemands.
The River Sielle flows under it which is why these toilets were built over it.
Inside some folk had dressed up and had rapiers but they seem to be having a break during our visit from whatever they were supposed to be doing.
There is a 4 km walk around the remains of the ramparts. We did a bit of it and I recommend you give it a go if you come this way. It gets you away from the crowds.
We came across this bit of sculpture on the path. On the other side of the path was a similar slab but the mirror image so the speak. What protruded on this one was a depression on the other. I've also just noticed this must be the reverse side because the signature in the bottom left is mirrored.
The arches under the buildings you can see here are former mills.
Metz is big on contemporary art and at the Place de la Comédie some more art has been installed.
On reflection the first one might be just where a skip was tipped.
There was a market going on near the cathedral and the covered market nearby is worth visiting. Very good quality fish, meat, veg and cheese on sale and busy with folk buying stuff, not just rubber-necking tourists like us.
Laundry completed we are off south tomorrow, aiming for somewhere south of Dijon, then another drive the next day. From the forecast we need to get down to at least Lyon to escape the worst of the coming weather.
Metz is worth visiting but the site and aire here are not the nicest but they serve a purpose.
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OP
OP
DBK
LIFE MEMBER
We've abandoned pottering and shot south today to avoid the dampness in the north. A good three hours drive has brought us to the CCP aire at Seurre.
When I decided to come here the name didn't ring any bells but I recognised it when we arrived, we've stayed here before. I guess I only need to start worrying when I don't recognise a place after we arrive. It also suggests I need to find new places. There are other aires to stay around here but I knew this place had hard standing, most of the CCP do though not all. It is supposed to rain most of tonight so this is as good a place as any to stay.
There are now 9 MHs here tonight, so about half full. We watched four separate French MHs turn up during the afternoon and after much delay and staring at the card machine reversing back out. You would think by now the French MHs would know about CCP? A pair of Norwegian MHs got in, though it is probably very cheap for them.
There was an apple festival being held when we last visited and today it was a triathlon. We encountered the cycling part about 20kms out from Suerre and had to stop at several junctions as marshals guided the riders the right way. I assume the swimming part was held in the Saône river next door to us. The running part involves the road on our side of the river so we've had runners coming past the end of the aire most of the afternoon. The main centre of activity seems to around the campsite on the opposite bank. Many roads have been blocked off and finding the aire involved a bit of reversing and route finding.
We explored the town (again) this afternoon. There are several interesting old houses.
A serious photographer would have shifted the dustbins and had other clutter and cars removed.
The main street was very quiet, but it is Sunday.
And the obligatory church.
We are in Burgundy and on the route here today we've seen signs for Nuits St George, Beaune and other famous wine names. But we haven't yet seen a single vine!
We must correct that, and we will, starting tomorrow.
When I decided to come here the name didn't ring any bells but I recognised it when we arrived, we've stayed here before. I guess I only need to start worrying when I don't recognise a place after we arrive.
It also suggests I need to find new places. There are other aires to stay around here but I knew this place had hard standing, most of the CCP do though not all. It is supposed to rain most of tonight so this is as good a place as any to stay.There are now 9 MHs here tonight, so about half full. We watched four separate French MHs turn up during the afternoon and after much delay and staring at the card machine reversing back out. You would think by now the French MHs would know about CCP? A pair of Norwegian MHs got in, though it is probably very cheap for them.
There was an apple festival being held when we last visited and today it was a triathlon. We encountered the cycling part about 20kms out from Suerre and had to stop at several junctions as marshals guided the riders the right way. I assume the swimming part was held in the Saône river next door to us. The running part involves the road on our side of the river so we've had runners coming past the end of the aire most of the afternoon. The main centre of activity seems to around the campsite on the opposite bank. Many roads have been blocked off and finding the aire involved a bit of reversing and route finding.
We explored the town (again
) this afternoon. There are several interesting old houses.A serious photographer would have shifted the dustbins and had other clutter and cars removed.
The main street was very quiet, but it is Sunday.
And the obligatory church.
We are in Burgundy and on the route here today we've seen signs for Nuits St George, Beaune and other famous wine names. But we haven't yet seen a single vine!
We must correct that, and we will, starting tomorrow.
OP
OP
DBK
LIFE MEMBER
Just done on my tablet with the mobile version of Photoshop. I need a bit more practice.Photoshop
Although in one of the photos in the original post I used it quite effectively to remove some electricity wires. Subscribers do not see these advertisements
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