Trying to Work Out What The Panel Means

[Rollin]

I have a couple of little problems reading the control panel on my van (1995 Hymer B544), and am hoping someone here will know what's what.

The first one is the water tank reading. When I click the switch to test the fresh water or the grey water, nothing shows on the meter at all. This could be OK as there isn't a lot of water in either, however should the dial light up even when showing empty? (This dial does light up and read as expected when testing the cab battery)

There's no life shown on this dial when I press the switch to test the habitation battery - no light, nothing. This did work when I first got the van, but hasn't shown anything since I replaced the kaput leisure battery. (I've checked with a multimeter and the habitation battery is being charged and does have a healthy voltage on it as you'd expect from a new one, it's just the reading on the panel that doesn't work)

The last question is the third switch, 'Reserve' and 'Aus'. I know 'Aus' means Off, but what does this refer to? Is it for a reserve gas tank?

Thanks for anyone who can shine any light on this!

Cheers
Rich

 

[MillieMoocher]

Can't help I'm afraid, but there is a classic Hymer Facebook group where you will almost certainly get the answer (if nobody here knows - which is unlikely!).

Failing that there's also a Hymer Owners Group on Facebook where you might get a steer

 

[Rollin]

classic Hymer Facebook group

Good suggestion thanks! I happened upon this group yesterday by chance. I'll have a look for the other one you mentioned, cheers

 

[rosalan]

I have the same switches.
The Reserve and Aus is a spare switch , on mine anyway.
The water levels, mine shows two readings, waste and fresh water. There are only a few levels that will show, a quarter, half etc.
The two battery test switch should be leisure battery and van battery readings. When you changed your battery, did you replace a Gel battery for lead acid? If so did you switch the Electrobloc to the other type?
Let us know how you get on. Your panel is more or less the same as most in the Hymer group.

 

[Rollin]

The water levels, mine shows two readings, waste and fresh water. There are only a few levels that will show, a quarter, half etc.

I have both on the switch, but neither show any sign of life on the dial. Does your dial light up when you press the test switch? Even if empty?

The two battery test switch should be leisure battery and van battery readings. When you changed your battery, did you replace a Gel battery for lead acid? If so did you switch the Electrobloc to the other type?

I don't think my Electroblock has this switch - seems to be older than most people's, a 104-2 I think. I'm pretty sure the previous battery was a wet-acid (I fitted a wet-acid).

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[Rollin]

The Reserve and Aus is a spare switch , on mine anyway.

Yes, once I had the panel out, mine also turned out to be not connected to anything. Another thing fixed, hurrah!

 

[rosalan]

I have both on the switch, but neither show any sign of life on the dial. Does your dial light up when you press the test switch? Even if empty?

I don't think my Electroblock has this switch - seems to be older than most people's, a 104-2 I think. I'm pretty sure the previous battery was a wet-acid (I fitted a wet-acid).

Yes, the dials do light up when battery condition pressed either way.
If the Gel or wet battery are correct on your electrobloc, then I would, were I an electrician which I am not, begin testing every possible fuse. I have a diagram of fuses but my vehicle is an 09 Dethleffs although still part of the family. A Hymer handbook should contain more exact details. You could try Googling for one or ask the Hymer Club.

 

[rosalan]

I googled "Electrobloc for hymer B544" and got loads of information.

 

[Rollin]

begin testing every possible fuse.

I've tested all the external blade fuses, all good, and also cleaned the switch contacts when I had the panel off. Unfortunately still no life! I guess I can live without the water level readouts, but I'm a little worried that without an easy way to check the leisure battery charge level I might be unaware of a developing problem.

ask the Hymer Club

Who are they? Is it like Fight Club?

 

[airwave]

Errrrr , Rich , you have switched the 12v hab service's on , ent ya mate . I don't see a green light on above the on/off switch .

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[Rollin]

Errrrr , Rich , you have switched the 12v hab service's on , ent ya mate . I don't see a green light on above the on/off switch .

Yeah I have mate. Don't the water & battery meters give a reading even if the 12V is off though? The starter battery meter does.

 

[airwave]

I've got to be honest i've never tried it , i always shut the system fully down when i leave the motor , both at the panel and ebl . If you shut down at the elb that automatically shut's the 12v system down at the panel too , so when you repower the system , you need to power both panel's up , if you see what i mean . Ebl first then the panel , however once you have powered up at the panel , you have to then switch it off for a couple of second's , then switch it back on . It's some sort of reset , don't know what , maybe someone can throw some light on the subject , but having done that i test the battery's , then start the motor . On my panel if you don't do the reset only the cab battery voltage will show , hab won't . Don't know with the tank's , never tried them .



Edit , Sorry , Rich , i gotta go hit the sack , joy's of being a trucker eh . Let me know how ya get on , mate .

 

[Rollin]

Your EBL is a bit newer than mine I think - the switch on my EBL 104 only switches off the 230V hookup input, doesn't affect any other circuits at all. The hookup isn't even connected on mine as the Elektroblock's transformer seems to have toasted itself some time in the past, before I had it. Anyway, I'll try your trick with turning it off and then back on again. Suspect that's just a quirk of your unit, but worth a try!

Cheers mate, may your motorways always be downhill and your slow lane free of grannies!

 

[sedge]

If this granny is in the slow lane it's cos she wants to exit in half a mile-ish - but she'll also be cussing the same folk as you, esp the middle lane hogs!

 

[wizza]

Had same problem with my 544 1996 changed leisure battery and panel not working was one of the fuses under the bonnet had blown check fuses by engine battery

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[airwave]

esp the middle lane hogs!

Ah , the centre lane owner's club , lol . I deal with them everyday , Jen .

Anyway, I'll try your trick with turning it off and then back on again.

Another little un , Rich . When i first did it , it still didn't power up , so i made sure the 12v was on at the panel , and started the engine , it engage then . I read a post on here where someone else had a similar problem , and starting the motor cleared it . Maybe a stuck relay or something as i suspect the van had been laid up for a while before i brought it , either way , i've never had to do it again since .

 

[airwave]

one of the fuses under the bonnet had blown

This is another good point . If as you say you don't have a switch on the ebl , the main feed would still be live when you changed the battery . So if it earthed out , it would pop the fuse . The only question mark i would put on this , is if it's still charging from the solar panel . I would expect the solar fuse on the ebl to pop too , and you say you have already checked them . If i remember correctly , on your type of van there is a group of fuse's under the bonnet , i think , they are in the centre of the engine bay , under , i think , a black plastic cover , that is held on by a couple of nut's or screw's .

There is a lot of " think's" there , but i'm going off memory . You have a different motor to me , i've got an a class , your's is a c class cab over . The other thing is , the switching on and off . It's not a quirk of my unit , it's actually in the ebl instruction's of the handbook (or down load) , under powering up .

 

[Rollin]

Had same problem with my 544 1996 changed leisure battery and panel not working was one of the fuses under the bonnet had blown check fuses by engine battery

Good suggestion, checked all the fuses by the battery, then all the ones on the EBL. All were fine though.

Also tried your off-then-on-again idea @airwave - again no dice.

 

[airwave]

again no dice.

Right , jeeze this van really don't like you , Rich .

Trouble is i'm beginning to get to the limit of my new found knowledge with these electrical system's , and this is further compounded by the fact , your system is different to mine . I'm still of the opinion your 12v is not engaging , and i firmly believe that is why you can't check either the tank content's , or hab battery . I'm going to be collecting my van from storage tomorrow , so i'm gonna try and check the tank with the power off . Quite honestly , i'm not expecting it to work , further more i'm 80 percent certain , when you do check em the back light come's on , i know it does with the hab battery .

Now on your panel , far right above the 12v on/ off switch , there's a green light , when you power up does that illuminate , it should . It look's from the pic that it's not , which is why i first asked if you had turned the 12v on . Try your light's , do they work , how about the water pump , does that work .

Another question mainly for my benefit , when you changed the battery , were there any other wire's that fed or led from the positive battery clamp , probably very light upto say 10 amp , possibly red , but it is possible it could be any colour . Not the heavy cable that feed's your 12v , smaller extra wire's .

What i'm trying to ascertain is whether your solar panel feed's though the ebl as it should , or feed's the battery direct, and bypasses the ebl . What i'm beginning to suspect , not having a master switch on your ebl , is that when you changed the battery , the positive clamp earthed , and toke the main fuse out , what i can't explain is why the battery is still getting a charge , if the main fuse popped , so should the solar . So sorry mate , it's time to hunt the fuse , the problem is , this fuse could be anywhere . It's high amperage (50amp) , usually red , and although the same type (continental or blade fuse) , it's about twice the size of anything you will have seen up to now . It's more usually found close to the battery , as best as i can gather , i found mine by accident under the driver's seat alongside the battery , but i have read of it being under the bonnet too .

 

[Rollin]

@airwave Hi mate, sorry didn't reply before, had a minor drama with the suspension top mounting going pop. A local garage has quoted me £170 to fix it which seems pretty reasonable far as I can tell.

Re. the 12V, that is 100% definitely working. Lights, water etc all work fine, and the green LED lights up. Everything on the panel is fine except for those readings for the leisure battery and water. It's hard to tell from the EBL circuit diagram where the 12V reading should come from on the panel connector - best candidate is line 7, marked as 'F?hler B2'. It's bad enough trying to decipher a circuit diagram labelled in German without random letters being replaced with question marks! It's like some demented word quiz. So I think this is 'Fähler B2', which means 'B2 sensor'. My multimeter doesn't read any voltage on this line from the EBL, suggesting the problem with the leisure battery readout is not in the panel at all.

I just had a look at the battery connections - there are just two cables on each terminal, all four of them go to the 'Battery Eingang' on the EBL. I would interpret that as input from the battery, which I suppose makes sense if those cables come from the split charge relay under the bonnet, with the alternator and starter battery on the other side of the relay. My understanding of that may be completely wrong though!

edit: Forgot to mention, my solar panel goes into the EBL via a Schaudt solar regulator. Don't think there's any fuses gone, unless there are some hidden away somewhere that I've not found yet!

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[airwave]

A local garage has quoted me £170 to fix it which seems pretty reasonable far as I can tell.

Don't worry Mate , being fair , if i was getting someone else to do the job , that's pretty much what i'd expect to pay myself . It's not a difficult job , just awkward and i also take it that include's a new top mount as well , which will probably account for around a third of that figure , so yeah , it don't sound an unreasonable price to me , either . I had one go on a honda prelude year's ago , the part's added up to more than i paid for the car , so i stuck it in a lock up for a couple of year's to see if it's value would increase , it didn't so i scrapped it , trouble is they have now , at last count by nearly 8x .
I've got mine away this weekend , not far from base , just in case i had problem's , but everything's okay . Ehu working fine , got minus 18 in the freezer compartment of the fridge . At the minute , brother's dog is snoring on the sofa , i dragged mother away too , and she's crashed out in the chair . Only bad bit , is it keep's raining , thunderstorm last night , and shower's today . Found a few niggle's that need attention though , nowt serious . Thing's like no 12v socket's , no clock , nowhere to put your cuppa , when your in bed , that sort of thing , oh and i need a water hose .

Now then , i checked and i was wrong , i can check both , tank's , and battery's with the 12v off , and yes the back light does work's with each check too . If your 12v is powering up , it's certainly not the fuse , but from what your saying now , we are beginning to step into the realm's of electronic's , and officially that put's me outta my depth . Though i can read a circuit diagram and work on a 12v circuit , electronic's confuse me . My weapon of choice with electric's , is a test lamp , i can't use a multi metre in any more than it's simplest form , and that's only though recent teaching's . Now , on the face of what your saying , sorry my friend , but it sound's as though this could be again , down to your ebl , we already know it's sick , but i fail to understand why changing your battery could cause this to suddenly happen . Eingang directly translate's to entrance , but also has other meaning's , one of which is input , so i would agree with your understanding of the cable run . Now one other thought i've had . My ebl has a low voltage sensor , it's purpose is to prevent damage to the battery when it reaches a certain charge state , however it can be overridden for a short period . Your ebl doesn't have a switch , but there's a good chance , you have a voltage sensor . Now my theory is , that when you removed the clamp's , the sensor mistook this for a flat battery , and shut the system down . For some reason it has not seen the new battery voltage , but you have managed to activate the override function and having a new battery , your running in limbo , bit flakey i know , but it is possible in theory .

If you haven't done so already , try running your engine ! .

 

[JeanLuc]

I have both German and English versions of the manual and circuit diagram for my EBL99. From these I can deduce that your mystery ? is ü. Fühler is 'sensor' so your pin 7 'f?hler B2' stands for 'Sensor B2', B2 being 'Battery 2' or the Habitation/Leisure battery.

 

[Rollin]

Holy mother of dog! He's only gone and fixed it!

So I had another look at the circuit diagram, and noticed that there are 2 x 2 amp fuses and 1 x 30 amp fuse shown on the block going in the direction of the leisure battery, while I'd only seen 1 x 2 amp and 1 x 30 amp. Maybe there was another 2 amp hidden away somewhere, so I went out to the van to check. Nope, no extra 2 amp anywhere in sight .. but what's this? One of the wires coming from the 2 amp I knew about was just flopping about, not connected to anything. I connected it to the positive battery cable, and bingo, the leisure battery meter on the panel now works! So do both the water meters!

To be truthful, the wires in this area are a bit of a mess - a previous owner had hooked up two leisure batteries in parallel, and the one near these connections had been disconnected (it is completely dead). I was aware of this, and I was even aware of this 'floating' wire, I just hadn't previously looked where it was going, choosing just to ignore it on the assumption it was intentionally disconnected. When the meter was working previously (but only intermittently), it must've just been resting against the terminal, and when I fitted the new leisure battery, I think I moved it to make sure it wasn't contacting anything.

I am so chuffed! I feel like a proper little motor mechanic

brother's dog is snoring on the sofa , i dragged mother away too , and she's crashed out in the chair

This sounds a very pleasant relaxing scene! Sorry you're not having the best of weather - I got lucky when I was away a couple of weekends ago and got a nice sunny evening, made so much difference to be able to sit outside sharing a drink with my mates in their van.

So is this your first proper outing in the van then? Glad everything is running well, small niggles aside. How's your water? Got good pressure at the taps & shower? Mine was a bit weak so I got a new pump off Amazon & I've now got a pretty decent flow. What about heating - are you using the standard Calor returnable cylinders? I'm leaning towards getting LPG in mine - bit pricey but as I plan to be moving through Europe a lot soon, it'll be worthwhile I reckon.

 

[Rollin]

I have both German and English versions of the manual and circuit diagram for my EBL99. From these I can deduce that your mystery ? is ü. Fühler is 'sensor' so your pin 7 'f?hler B2' stands for 'Sensor B2', B2 being 'Battery 2' or the Habitation/Leisure battery.

Perfect, thanks for confirming that @JeanLuc

edit: just realised I put Fähler in my earlier reply about this, I don't think that's a word, Fühler is what I meant to put! (honest teach)

 

[airwave]

Holy mother of dog! He's only gone and fixed it!

Hah , top job me ole mucker , all round your's , for ebl's fixing then , eh . I have to be honest i would probably , have had to get help to find that one . As i said electronic's are not my strong suit . Well done . I know what you mean with wiring mess i've got the same issue with mine , it's the only problem with any pre owned vehicle , mine work's , but it's on , the to do list .

So is this your first proper outing in the van then?

Yep first one . Got good water pressure , so nice to just turn on the tap , and get hot water , no boiling the kettle first . Had a bit of a spurt , with air in the hot water system , but only the once , it seemed to clear itself after that . Heater's fine , no issue's . Yeah using propane , 6kg bottle's , got two on board . I would , i'm planning on doing the same , i priced up a 4.5 kg . 9 litres of gas , change the bottle , 22 quid to you mate , fill it at a petrol station , 4 an a half . I would say go for an underslung though , can be a bit touch and go for filling , with something like gaslow . Cost is an issue , but you will get the outlay back . Bottle's in europe look to be a pain , with having to carry different regulator's .
Wouldn't ya know it , sun's out now , weather was a concern , but only in so much as i had a 3 ton van sitting on grass , but a chat with one of the warden's , soon made that a non event , he had two tractor's . I gotta admit , i did miss my awning though , van ent got one , haha yet , gonna have to be changed , i feel a quick bit of research coming up .

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[Rollin]

Wouldn't ya know it , sun's out now

ha you know what they say, if you don't like the British weather, wait 15 minutes

I would say go for an underslung though , can be a bit touch and go for filling , with something like gaslow

The underslung would be better, if only because you then get an extra storage locker for more junk! The advantage I see with having bottles - as well as being cheaper to install - is that if I sell the van in a year or two, I can take the LPG bits out and put them on the next van - that would probably save me more money than leaving it on would add to the sale value. However, if you're sure you're going to keep the van for five years or more then maybe an underslung tank would make economic sense.

 

[airwave]

if you're sure you're going to keep the van for five years or more

I spent a hell of a lot of time researching the van interior that would suit me best . During that time , the one thing i learned was the expectation , that i had little chance of getting it right first time round , and would probably end up changing the van within a couple of year's , possibly more than once . Now i didn't want to waste time and money doing that , so i further considered , how it would fit in with what i was looking to get outta the van , adding weather and storage into the mix . Interestingly after coming across it by accident , the result was the 584 , i'm pleased to say it fulfilled it's roll perfectly . It proved to be comfortable even though it rained most of the weekend , with enough space to cope with , not only a dog (most likely) , but another person as well (least likely) , despite it's small size . It's not perfect , need a bit of time to arrange that , but i think it's safe to say i won't be changing it anytime soon . Course the big plus is i'm solo , so there's only me to please , but i do miss my awning , so that's first on the list , then next year , i'm gonna lump a gofo on the back , then probably deal with the gas and electric .
I gotta be honest , i dunno how much a bottle conversion will cost , compared to an underslung , but i do like the idea of emptying up the gas locker , so i can carry fuel , for my powered hangie and the gofo , and i need an external locker to carry fuel making the gas locker ideal . That said i can see what your driving at though .

 

[Rollin]

my powered hangie

Actually been meaning to ask what your avatar pic and forum handle are about! I've always wanted to try something like this - the feeling of freedom once you're up there must be amazing. I was kind of toying with the idea of learning how to fly those parachute/glider things (parawings i think they're called? No engine, just thermals) Put off by the amount of storage they'd consume, plus I promised myself a couple of years ago that I wouldn't break any more bones lol

 

[pyro]

One thing to be said for owning a French M/H, at least the manual and the controls are in English

I was speaking a few weeks back with a friend of mine who is a ground ATC at Bournemouth, and he told me they declined to accept a French light aircraft on the basis that the pilot couldn't speak enough English to make his intentions clearly known and redirected him to Southampton. Suspecting that the pilot did not have the required licence for flight outside of French airspace, given his inability to speak the legally required language, they notified Southampton where they checked and discovered he was on a restricted licence and his aircraft was impounded on arrival. They only released it after he agreed (through an interpreter) to pay the cost of being accompanied back into French airspace where he probably got a hero's welcome

When I fly in France, I find that half the small airfields can only speak French

 

[airwave]

I wouldn't break any more bones

Hmmmm , if at first you don't succeed , paragliding is not for you ! .

Right , well let's deal with the easy one first . Avatar is a still from a movie , of me moment's before i took off , about 2 year's ago . I've tried up loading it , but the file is too big , and that's as far as i've gone with it . Can't find the time to sort it out , just being too busy . I think i'm gonna need an app to upload movie's , but with this being a chrome book it ent quite so easy .
Now forum handle , well that's an accident . I needed an email name and the other's i tried had all been used . So i used airwave as a stop gap , ya know could change it later like . Trouble is , it fit's me quite well , I fly and sail , see the connection , but it don't stop there . I need wind to move the boat and wave is a glider weather formation , and just to top it off , my first glider was made by airwave . So the name has stuck , i use it , or variation's in several place's online .

I would recommend hang gliding if you don't wanna break any more bone's . I fly both powered and glider , and they are a lot of fun , but also very weather dependant .

I learned to fly in norfolk about 13 year's ago , and every august i travel back to the school where i learn't , to help my instructor , and his ex wife who have both became good friend's , train new pilot's . I tend to goof around a bit , so the student's can see just how safe the glider's are , often waving with both hand's , or flapping my arm's like a bird , it can be a huge boost in the early stage's of learning , when basically your hanging on for grim death , plus i get a lot of flying in myself . I've gale hung (a form of hovering in strong upper wind's) at 800ft , soared a hedge at 450 ft just short of final's , right above the student's head's , and landed on the wheel's when i'm too lazy to put my feet down . I've even dog fighted a couple of paraglider's , while flying the devon coast , which earned me the nick name ace , with one guy . Actually all i did was take off and bank hard to stay in lift , i lost height due to the turn which allowed me to fly under them and beat them to stronger lift , hah , i was soon above em . I'm trained to take off , by winch , hill , or power , all by Tony . One prospective trainee saw me deal with a real emergency on one take off , a thermal stalled the wing while i was climbing out on the winch , he didn't even know it , and became a pilot himself shortly afterward's . I wish i could endorse paraglider's , but the truth is , i don't like them , take a look at their accident record , it speak's volume's .