Towbar strength and motorhome towing capabilities

[Lpgc]

I am looking to buy a motorhome in the near future but I want to be able to use it to tow a boat that weighs around 2000kg.

How much do I want to pay? Nothing hehe! But realistically I expect to pay £15k to £20k, maybe a little more. I like value for money and things I'm not likely to lose much money on if I decide to sell in a couple of years.

I have owned coachbuilt motorhomes in the past (e.g. 1990 Autotrail 6 berth long wheel base based on the Talbot Express van) and fitted self designed towbars to them myself. But one of my concerns was/is that there's nothing really substantial to even bolt a towbar to... the rear end of the chassis on coachbuilt motorhomes seems generally to be a lot weaker than the rear end of the vans the motorhomes are based on?

Even given a strong enough towbar and chassis, obviously the engine and transmission will also need to be capable. I've been wondering if I should be looking for something with the 2.8JTD engine or Mercedes 2.7 engine....

Any advice will be appreciated.

I know I could buy a none coachbuilt camper van / conversion which would have the original van 'chassis' and therefore probably capable of towing 2500kg but I don't want a standard van that's been converted but I wonder if all coachbuilt motorhomes have weaker (than standard van) chassis. Can we make any generalisations (for example X make/model coachbuilt van has a stronger chassis/towbar than other similar models)?

Regards, Simon

 

[Steve and Denise]

In that price bracket you may need to look for an older Iveco chassis but still tight on budget

 

[Lenny HB]

Normally the towbar bolts to main chassis which is forward of any chassis extentions the converter add so should be strong enough.

 

[Lpgc]

Normally the towbar bolts to main chassis which is forward of any chassis extentions the converter add so should be strong enough.

The Autotrail I had seemed to have original chassis only as far as the rear end of the cab, the rest seemed to be 'Alko' or similar galvanised chassis?

I've looked at a couple of coachbuilt's with towbars recently, the towbars on them seem to be weak compared to even something you'd find on the average hatchback car... No extension going forward to the 'van' chassis, just bolted to the rear chassis and of a design where half of the forward/backward forces are transmitted to the rear galvanised chassis by a couple of lengths of 20mm x 4mm bars.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

In the "good old days" you could knock up a tow bar from some angle iron , a couple of bolts and a tow ball.
But I dont think you can do that now. Tow bars must be designed to suit your vehicle. If not your insurance may well be invalid.

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[Lenny HB]

The Autotrail I had seemed to have original chassis only as far as the rear end of the cab, the rest seemed to be 'Alko' or similar galvanised chassis?

Al-Ko is a proper chassis, majority of Motorhomes have them. The extentions I was referring to are lightweight extensions added to the back of the Al-Ko chassis to support a garage etc.

 

[Lpgc]

In the "good old days" you could knock up a tow bar from some angle iron , a couple of bolts and a tow ball.
But I dont think you can do that now. Tow bars must be designed to suit your vehicle. If not your insurance may well be invalid.

I agree. But I had the Talbot Autotrail in 2008 and made my own towbar from thick angle iron then, I am quite certain that it was the strongest towbar design and bolted stronger to the 'chassis' than any commercially available towbar for that vehicle. Not so long ago, even in those days I should really have fitted a commercially available and approved towbar, even if my own design was far stronger.

This is my problem... I can make a towbar as strong as I like but if I'm bolting it to something weak it will still be weak. Any manufacturer making a towbar for the same model vehicle will have the same problem.

 

[Lpgc]

Al-Ko is a proper chassis, majority of Motorhomes have them. The extentions I was referring to are lightweight extensions added to the back of the Al-Ko chassis to support a garage etc.

Proper... but weak compared to an original van's chassis? I can grab an edge of an Alko chassis with mowl grips and bend it. Not something you want to attach a towbar to with 4 or 6 bolts and then use to tow 2000kg?

 

[pappajohn]

The majority of fiat vans have a 2000kg limit so a boat weighing around 2000kg plus the trailer will be maybe 2500kg so not an option.
Even then, many converters lower the factory towing limit making it even worse.

 

[Lenny HB]

Proper... but weak compared to an original van's chassis? I can grab an edge of an Alko chassis with mowl grips and bend it. Not something you want to attach a towbar to with 4 or 6 bolts and then use to tow 2000kg?

You certainly wouldn't be able to do that on my Al-Ko chassis.
Fiat chassis I have seen are much thinner steel.

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[poppycamper]

In the "good old days" you could knock up a tow bar from some angle iron , a couple of bolts and a tow ball.
But I dont think you can do that now. Tow bars must be designed to suit your vehicle. If not your insurance may well be invalid.

Indeed.... I remember many many years helping Dad to fit a towbar to a Vauxhall Cresta....
Simply.. unbolt chrome rear bumper.. attach a bit of angle iron to the bumper fixing point... refit chrome bumper over angle iron and drill two holes In the center..ish.. of bumper and also through angle iron... bolt on towball ( 2inch.. non of your nampy pampy 50mm) through both..
Job done... Never lost a caravan in all his towing years.

 

[Lpgc]

The Autotrail I had had the Alko chassis (I believe so anyway) which was like a U section of galv steel around 3mm thick and around 2" top x 3" drop x 2" bottom? The problem being the 3mm thickness.

I work on a lot of vehicles with my job (which is quite a different subject to my intention to buy a motorhome). If it were a full size American A class RV I was intending to buy I wouldn't have started this thread because they are usually based on 6 ton rated truck chassis and I could easily design and build a towbar to bolt to that that could pull anything.

 

[poppycamper]

Even if you can fit your very able towbar safely to the chassis..... Will it be legal.
Do all towbar in this day and age not need to be type approved...?

I agree. But I had the Talbot Autotrail in 2008 and made my own towbar from thick angle iron then, I am quite certain that it was the strongest towbar design and bolted stronger to the 'chassis' than any commercially available towbar for that vehicle. Not so long ago, even in those days I should really have fitted a commercially available and approved towbar, even if my own design was far stronger.

This is my problem... I can make a towbar as strong as I like but if I'm bolting it to something weak it will still be weak. Any manufacturer making a towbar for the same model vehicle will have the same problem.

 

[L' Hobo]

Proper... but weak compared to an original van's chassis? I can grab an edge of an Alko chassis with mowl grips and bend it. Not something you want to attach a towbar to with 4 or 6 bolts and then use to tow 2000kg?

There was a picture of a Unimog shown on here a few days ago but I think it would be outside you price bracket?

but seriously, I doubt if a coachbuilt would be suitable to tow a combine weight (boat & Trailor) of about 4 tons.
If it was me, I think I would buy a truck base vehicle with a proper chassis or an older truck conversion?

 

[Lenny HB]

Any vehicle manufactured from 1997 the towbar has to be approved.

Slightly off topic saw BIL's new Ford Kuga today, press a button in the boot and the hidden towbar comes out from under the bumper & moves up into position, looks cool but does mean more electrics. I was surprised how cheap it was, it was only £500.

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[Steve and Denise]

I remember this Lenny but for commercials I think it was 2012

 

[Manic]

You would have to check max train weight because you may not have available capacity.
Is the 2000kg including the trailer.

 

[TonyEmm]

In the "good old days" you could knock up a tow bar from some angle iron , a couple of bolts and a tow ball.
But I dont think you can do that now. Tow bars must be designed to suit your vehicle. If not your insurance may well be invalid.

Legally, you can still do that provided the vehicle is first registered prior to Oct 2012. Type approval was then introduced for Motorhome and N1 class vehicle’s (vans) Towing equipment.

with the OP’s budget, it’s likely to be older than that!

 

[TonyEmm]

Even if you can fit your very able towbar safely to the chassis..... Will it be legal.
Do all towbar in this day and age not need to be type approved...?

For motorhomes, it’s from Oct 2012 onwards. Prior to that can still be a diy job….

 

[TonyEmm]

Indeed.... I remember many many years helping Dad to fit a towbar to a Vauxhall Cresta....
Simply.. unbolt chrome rear bumper.. attach a bit of angle iron to the bumper fixing point... refit chrome bumper over angle iron and drill two holes In the center..ish.. of bumper and also through angle iron... bolt on towball ( 2inch.. non of your nampy pampy 50mm) through both..
Job done... Never lost a caravan in all his towing years.

A friend did that many years ago, (can’t recall the car) and bent it first time he used it!

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[Northernraider]

That's going to be fun going up any hills with either of those 2 engine choices .

 

[minesapint]

I am looking to buy a motorhome in the near future but I want to be able to use it to tow a boat that weighs around 2000kg.

How much do I want to pay? Nothing hehe! But realistically I expect to pay £15k to £20k, maybe a little more. I like value for money and things I'm not likely to lose much money on if I decide to sell in a couple of years.

I have owned coachbuilt motorhomes in the past (e.g. 1990 Autotrail 6 berth long wheel base based on the Talbot Express van) and fitted self designed towbars to them myself. But one of my concerns was/is that there's nothing really substantial to even bolt a towbar to... the rear end of the chassis on coachbuilt motorhomes seems generally to be a lot weaker than the rear end of the vans the motorhomes are based on?

Even given a strong enough towbar and chassis, obviously the engine and transmission will also need to be capable. I've been wondering if I should be looking for something with the 2.8JTD engine or Mercedes 2.7 engine....

Any advice will be appreciated.

I know I could buy a none coachbuilt camper van / conversion which would have the original van 'chassis' and therefore probably capable of towing 2500kg but I don't want a standard van that's been converted but I wonder if all coachbuilt motorhomes have weaker (than standard van) chassis. Can we make any generalisations (for example X make/model coachbuilt van has a stronger chassis/towbar than other similar models)?

Regards, Simon

Hi, The first van we had was a 2004 Dethleff on a 2.8 Ducato chassis, which had a solid chassis right to the back of the van, and as a bonus had slots in the rear panel for the tow bar to slip through to bolt to the chassis. We towed a Honda Jazz many miles with that, set up.
Our current van is also based on a Ducato, was built in 2017, but has a very lightweight chassis from the rear axle, it cannot have a tow bar mounted to this lightweight chassis, and we had to have a purpose designed and certified tow bar fitted that attached to the original chassis at the rear axle point, It was in the region of £1300 to have fitted, but it works well and we tow a Hyundai i10 everywhere with it.

 

[poppycamper]

Hi, The first van we had was a 2004 Dethleff on a 2.8 Ducato chassis, which had a solid chassis right to the back of the van, and as a bonus had slots in the rear panel for the tow bar to slip through to bolt to the chassis. We towed a Honda Jazz many miles with that, set up.
Our current van is also based on a Ducato, was built in 2017, but has a very lightweight chassis from the rear axle, it cannot have a tow bar mounted to this lightweight chassis, and we had to have a purpose designed and certified tow bar fitted that attached to the original chassis at the rear axle point, It was in the region of £1300 to have fitted, but it works well and we tow a Hyundai i10 everywhere with it.

Problem is that OP wants to tow a 2OOOkg (not clear if that includes trailer weight) boat behind his moho...
Bit differant to a fairly lightweight "toad"

 

[Headrush]

Our 2007 autotrail ducato has a train weight of 6 tonnes. As it was originally a 3.5 tonner, that gives 2.5 tonnes for the trailer and boat.

 

[EuroTrotters]

The older Mercedes 2.7 have verylimited towing capacities.

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[olley]

You need an RV, mine has a 2.25ton towing with 1/4 ton load on the pin. The bigger RV's have 4.5 ton with 1/2 ton pin load.

 

[Speve]

Lpgc ,we tow a twin axle trailer with our 4500kg B678DL total weight just under 6000kg Al-Ko ,you wouldn’t know it’s on the back, we’ve done thousands of miles towing without issue?
we do have the 180 bhp version and semi auto gears however our previous van had the 150bhp manual box and was just as good.

 

[Jofang]

When fitting anything to a chassis you should not drill any holes within at least 40mm of the 90 degree flange, so hope your towbar installer knows this. My hydraulic jacks were fitted by a main dealer for AlKo and they drilled holes so close to the flange the nuts wouldn't tighten properly. I could have strangled them when I saw what they'd done.

 

[minesapint]

Problem is that OP wants to tow a 2OOOkg (not clear if that includes trailer weight) boat behind his moho...
Bit differant to a fairly lightweight "toad"

I was not stating what he could tow, I was pointing out the problems with fitting a tow bar to newer Motorhomes. I assume the OP would check towing weights of the vehicle he intends to buy. I thing he will struggle to find a Moho on the stated budget to tow his boat.

 

[Speve]

When fitting anything to a chassis you should not drill any holes within at least 40mm of the 90 degree flange, so hope your towbar installer knows this. My hydraulic jacks were fitted by a main dealer for AlKo and they drilled holes so close to the flange the nuts wouldn't tighten properly. I could have strangled them when I saw what they'd done.

I’m surprised they even drilled the Al-Ko chassis as they are usually pre drilled to take pre made brackets

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