Topping up the up the underslung LPG tank (1 Viewer)

[Two on Tour]

We were booked in to the Stratford Campervan Show and it was going to be handy that our route there would take us past a Morrison fuel station which meant we could fill up our underslung LPG tank which was getting a tad low.
With Stratford cancelled, we booked in to the New Forest campsite thanks to the heads up from Wombles, but alas no LPG stations on route there without a detour.

I have a Gaslow reserve cylinder connection hose and a full Calor 6Kg cylinder, but no real space to store Calor 6Kg cylinder in our van, so I thought I would give it a go to transfer what I could out of the Calor 6Kg cylinder into our underslung tank.
Knowing the capacity of our underslung tank and how much gas was in it, I knew it would take at least 11Kg of gas before getting near to the 80% limit.
I weighed the Calor cylinder, then I left the Calor cylinder in the sun to heat up for an hour, connected the hose to the Calor cylinder and the underslung tank fill point, turned the Calor cylinder upside down and on a set of steps to get it higher than the underslung tank, opened the valve on the Calor cylinder and immediately the hose started to vibrate and pulse along with a lot of gurgling noises.
I kept an eye on the proceeding and after about ten minutes things started to quieten down until all went silent. I shut off the Calor cylinder, gentle release the pressure left in the hose and checked the underslung tank level on the Mopeka tank level app and bingo 61% in the tank now. I re-weighed the Calor cylinder and found that 5 of the 6 kilos has been transferred. I now know that I can use this method as a get out of jail free if we get caught short of gas in the future.

Please note that I can accurately measure the gas level in our underslung tank with the Mopeka sensor and app, so I was happy that I would not exceed the 80% in our tank and I would not recommend anybody trying to do the same as I did unless you too can accurately measure the gas levels in your tank.

 

[DBK]

It should be impossible to fill the tank beyond 80%. I don't measure the amount of gas going in when I fill from a pump. I just fill it until the pump stops. There's a float in the tank I believe.

 

[Two on Tour]

It should be impossible to fill the tank beyond 80%. I don't measure the amount of gas going in when I fill from a pump. I just fill it until the pump stops. There's a float in the tank I believe.

Yes agree about the should be impossible to fill the tank beyond 80%, but as I was doing something not the norm so I wanted to play safe.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

You have also emptied all the gunge and oils that were settled on the bottom of the calor bottle into your tank.

 

[Two on Tour]

You have also emptied all the gunge and oils that were settled on the bottom of the calor bottle into your tank.

If I have then that to will just sit at the bottom of my tank as it is vapour that is drawn off from above the liquid.

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[Two on Tour]

You have also emptied all the gunge and oils that were settled on the bottom of the calor bottle into your tank.

I take your point and I have to admit I had not considered the possibility of grot in the bottom of a Calor gas cylinder.
Just to be on the safe side the next time I top up my tank this way I will leave cylinder upside down for an hour or two, then a quick open and shut of the valve to blast any grot out before connecting up the hose between the cylinder and the tank.

 

[Googlebot]

I am not saying it’s wrong to do this, if I was in a pickle, then I would too.

However, please strap the cylinder to the steps and ensure it can’t fall over etc.

I am so clumsy I would have had an accident doing that.

 

[Two on Tour]

I am not saying it’s wrong to do this, if I was in a pickle, then I would too.

However, please strap the cylinder to the steps and ensure it can’t fall over etc.

I am so clumsy I would have had an accident doing that.

The cylinder is sort of wedge into the top hoop of the steps. I gave it a good wobble and it did not want to budge so left it at that, but next time I'll strap it on to save me getting an ear bashing.

 

[jockaneezer]

On a much smaller scale, I do the same with the Coleman cylinders for my son's Jetboil. Weigh the cylinder, drain in 200 grams of gas from a butane/propane mix blowtorch refill, then pop it into some warm water to check the valve for leaks.

 

[MisterB]

it used to be an old 'trick' to have a liquid feed taken off the bottom of an lpg tank (used for heating in remote properties) so that it could be used to fuel vehicles and avoid additional tax for road use, so what youre doing is exactly the same but on a smaller scale. NOT to be recommended of course and remember the hoses are meant for gas and not liquids so might become brittle

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[DDJC]

Good solution, but I would have detoured to an LPG station

Has anyone got a reliable LPG station locator? I have tried several websites and they were not much use. I know there is an autogas pump on the Cobham services of the M25, which might be my nearest

 

[gozomike]

Hi Try

myLPG.eu - Save money save Earth

myLPG.eu helps you find all the autogas stations and installers you need wherever in Europe you are.

www.mylpg.eu

it shows one just north of the new forest.

 

[gozomike]

autogas pump on the Cobham services of the M25,

Looks as if that one is closing.

 

[DDJC]

Hi Try

myLPG.eu - Save money save Earth

myLPG.eu helps you find all the autogas stations and installers you need wherever in Europe you are.

www.mylpg.eu

it shows one just north of the new forest.

New Forest is three hours!

There is one twenty minutes away according to your website. Many thanks.

 

[Two on Tour]

Here's another LPG map to add to your collection if you don't already have it.

LP Gas Stations and service centers finder - LPG Stations

The worlds list of Liquefied petroleum gas or LPG auto gas stations. Find refill stations and LP gas (propane) conversion centers nearby on the map.

lpgstations.com

None of the LPG fill point maps are reliable as they are only usually updated as and when a map user goes past or uses a location and then updates the map.

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[gozomike]

None of the LPG fill point maps are reliable

Agreed. The one just north of the New forest shows as last updated 7/9/20 so there is some hope in that one. At the moment I am OK for gas but may give it a try after the new forest meet. Currently Salisbury Hillside C&MC site.

Mike

 

[Kannon Fodda]

I know there is an autogas pump on the Cobham services of the M25, which might be my nearest

Cobham M25 will be closing. Not quite sure where you are so what might suit. There is supposed to be one at Sainsburys Cobham (never used it), but the lpg sites are often uncommitted whether it's working or not. Shell Addlestone, about 1/2 mile from Junction 11 M25 is Flowgas so should be staying for the forseeable and last night when drove past it was a healthy 57.9p. I understand there is also a Shell station near Fleet, off M3, and there should also be something in the Leatherhead area.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Gas-iT sell a connection pipe so you can connect your filler to a portable cylinder. It doesn't fill your onboard tank but it does give you lpg.

So although the OP's Heath Robinson method is "proof of concept" I'm not sure what practical use it would have?

 

[gozomike]

New Forest is three hours!

The OP is going to the New Forest Meet.

 

[dulvil]

M3 fleet services have lpg. Henlow lakes campsite have lpg pump not far off A1

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[Two on Tour]

Gas-iT sell a connection pipe so you can connect your filler to a portable cylinder. It doesn't fill your onboard tank but it does give you lpg.

So although the OP's Heath Robinson method is "proof of concept" I'm not sure what practical use it would have?

The hose I used is the Gaslow version of the Gas-it connection hose which Gas-it have recently added to their range and the Gas it version is only good for UK propane bottles were as with the Gaslow version you can screw on different ends to suit some of the continental bottles, as for the practical use is have LPG to hand to top up with rather than detour or make a special journey to get LPG.
You may well have LPG station coming out of your ears up your neck of the wood, but it is a fairly scarce commodity close to home for us.

 

[Langtoftlad]

The hose I used is the Gaslow version of the Gas-it connection hose which Gas-it have recently added to their range and the Gas it version is only good for UK propane bottles were as with the Gaslow version you can screw on different ends to suit some of the continental bottles, as for the practical use is have LPG to hand to top up with rather than detour or make a special journey to get LPG.
You may well have LPG station coming out of your ears up your neck of the wood, but it is a fairly scarce commodity close to home for us.

I get the point of having a spare cylinder for emergency use.
What I don't get is emptying it into your onboard tank, rather than use it as a slave, attached to the filler.
I'm not seeing the advantage.

 

[Two on Tour]

I get the point of having a spare cylinder for emergency use.
What I don't get is emptying it into your onboard tank, rather than use it as a slave, attached to the filler.
I'm not seeing the advantage.

As I stated in me opening post, we do not physically have space to carry a bottle of propane to use as a slave.

 

[DDJC]

West Malling is my nearest. I will drive down and check out access this weekend. I will update the website with what I find.

 

[Langtoftlad]

As I stated in me opening post, we do not physically have space to carry a bottle of propane to use as a slave.

Nope still don't get it .
So you set off with a full lpg tank into the middle of nowhere, no autogas filling stations within easy reach...
Where do you get the bottle of propane?
Are you going to sign a new calor rental agreement, pay the dosh, get a full cylinder, empty it into your onboard tank, return the now empty cylinder & get a part refund?
Please, I'm not being critical, I think it's clever but I don't get the practical use.
But I guess if it works for you.

I don't live a million miles away from you - so I guess I have about as many LPG options as you.

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[Two on Tour]

Nope still don't get it .
So you set off with a full lpg tank into the middle of nowhere, no autogas filling stations within easy reach...
Where do you get the bottle of propane?
Are you going to sign a new calor rental agreement, pay the dosh, get a full cylinder, empty it into your onboard tank, return the now empty cylinder & get a part refund?
Please, I'm not being critical, I think it's clever but I don't get the practical use.
But I guess if it works for you.

I don't live a million miles away from you - so I guess I have about as many LPG options as you.

We have Calor propane bottles at home for use with our home gas BBQ (god that going to open up a whole new can of worms), so always have Calor propane bottles to hand at home.

We are not ones for constantly topping up or diverting miles to get gas if we can avoid it. On our trip back from France the end of last year, gas was getting low but not to worry as it 2020 we would be off again and fill up on the way, but alas lockdown curtailed that plan, so a couple of outings in the UK with no LPG on route or a sensible distance of route, but we had enough get to get by as the very accurate Mopeka level indicator told us. After these UK outings after lockdown, the gas level was lower than I would have liked for further outing. When we decide to go on the Stratford meet we would have pass within 200 yards of the Morrison's at Binley so an ideal time to fill up , but when that was cancelled and we opted for the New Forest we were once again the divert or go to our nearest LPG station before setting off, and with the nearest LPG station to us a 30 odd mile round trip and nothing on the route that I could guarantee would have gas, the I decided to try and transfer gas to our underslung tank as I set out in my opening post. This now gives me an option not to get caught short on being low on gas rather than a way of normally filling our underslung tank.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

I can sympathise with wishing to avoid a longish drive or detour just to top off with £10 of LPG. I'm fortunate that currently there is an LPG within 1 mile of me and on a direct route to the M25, and it's usually reliable. So far my trips haven't been long enough that I've run the onboard tank down enough to need a refill when out and about. But I can forsee the problem, especially when lpg stations are becoming rare.

This thread does prove the concept for refilling, valuable when like the OP I would have no space in the van to carry a loose cylinder on my travels that once on site I could connect via the hose. I would wonder however how much this method of refil is at least against recommended best practice, and indeed if it could be considered dangerous or illegal?

One wonders if converters are going to have to move away from underslung cylinders if LPG isn't readily available, and provide storage space in MH's, even PVCs for the removable cylinder.

 

[Two on Tour]

Took this filling the underslung tank from a propane bottle a little further today.
I wanted to see if I could actually fully fill our tank to the 80%.
Set every thing up the same with a fresh full Calor bottle and strapped the bottle to the steps this time Googlebot and vented the grot out Jimbohorlicks .
Opened up the Mopeka app to monitor the changing gas level and opened the valve on the Calor bottle, and as before, the hose vibrated and pulsed along with the gurgling noises, but as the level reached 77% you could hear the internal 80% safety shut off closed with a slight bang and every thing went quite, so that was another question I answered myself.

I must admit that I was quite surprised that I could actually transfer that much gas in liquid form as I thought that the pressure in the tank and the bottle would equalise and stop any more transfer.

No the most cost effective way of filling a refillable tank, but as I said it could be a get out of jail free card.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Did you see any gunk come out of the upturned calor bottle?
I have refiiables and on our last outing I paid somewhere in the region of 60p a litre
. I have 2X 6KG gaslow, the locker won't take larger bottles, From other posts it seems that folks are paying £24 ish for a 6kg exchange, and sometimes they aren't always Mt, when you hand them in. My bottles take around 11 litres each to fill to 80%, and we usually run 1 till Mt then top up or top up as available. For 11 plus litres, say 12 that's £7.20 for a 6kg bottle full. I think it's worth a detour than risk filling from another bottle. Possibly in Spain where a 13kg bottle is 15 euros it may be worthwhile if your on the way home. Even at 80 p per lite in the UK at a motorway lpg it's still more cost effective than using an exchange calor bottle, and no risk.

 

[Two on Tour]

Did you see any gunk come out of the upturned calor bottle?

No Just a cloud of vapour.

I have refiiables and on our last outing I paid somewhere in the region of 60p a litre
. I have 2X 6KG gaslow, the locker won't take larger bottles, From other posts it seems that folks are paying £24 ish for a 6kg exchange, and sometimes they aren't always Mt, when you hand them in. My bottles take around 11 litres each to fill to 80%, and we usually run 1 till Mt then top up or top up as available. For 11 plus litres, say 12 that's £7.20 for a 6kg bottle full. I think it's worth a detour than risk filling from another bottle. Possibly in Spain where a 13kg bottle is 15 euros it may be worthwhile if your on the way home. Even at 80 p per lite in the UK at a motorway lpg it's still more cost effective than using an exchange calor bottle, and no risk.

I full understand the differance in cost between Autogas and Calor (had refillable for quite a while now on MH's) and the cost saving and perpetual cost lost of detouring.
Shell motorway services LPG is disappearing at an alarming rate and we had various LPG stations that we have pulled into in the past that have had their Autogas pumps either out of action or the staff do not know how to switch the pump on from the tills counter, so detouring can be a total waste of time and diesel, still with no LPG. As an example, we planned to pull into Birchanger Green services on the M11 for LPG earlier this year as this was on our way to the tunnel but luckily a Funster said that they had pulled in there for LPG and the pump was out of service.
As I said, this is a fall back if needed, not a normal way I will be filling up.

As for risk. didn't come across any risk other that kicking the steps over.

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