TomTom Camper Max Routing (2 Viewers)

[Brains]

It shows that TomTom need to introduce some more levels of road, not simply Motorway, A, B and C

Using the map above I'd happily take my motorhome from Polmorla, into Wadebridge and then up West Hill to the A39.

I'd think twice about taking a car via the direct route. Probably fine, but good chance you will need to reverse at some point . It's not suitable for a motorhome.

The longer route is probably faster, as the lane is 15-20mph in reality, although the speed limit is 60mph

Cornwall in particular* has thousands of miles of lanes, which are not really suitable for a motorhome unless you know exactly where you are going, and have the ability to reverse, possibly a considerable distance, when required.

(* Other areas also have miles of lanes, Devon, Lake district, NW Scotland etc, however Cornwall's lanes tend to be sunken, with granite sides, unlike say NW Scotland where its a narrow road, but crossing open moorland.),

 

[Guigsy]

It shows that TomTom need to introduce some more levels of road, not simply Motorway, A, B and C

Using the map above I'd happily take my motorhome from Polmorla, into Wadebridge and then up West Hill to the A39.

I'd think twice about taking a car via the direct route. Probably fine, but good chance you will need to reverse at some point .

Cornwall in particular* has thousands of miles of lanes, which are not really suitable for a motorhome unless you know exactly where you are going, and have the ability to reverse, possibly a considerable distance, when required.

(* Other areas also have miles of lanes, Devon, Lake district, NW Scotland etc, however Cornwall's lanes tend to be sunken, with granite sides, unlike say NW Scotland where its a narrow road, but crossing open moorland.),

There are A roads that are single track. The classification of the road doesn't necessarily tell you how passable it is for a wider vehicle.

 

[Brains]

There are A roads that are single track. The classification of the road doesn't necessarily tell you how passable it is for a wider vehicle.
View attachment 790564

That is my point.

The TomTom & Gamin categories of road are too simple.
The A39 at Porlock has a max weight of 18t and caravans are banned.

There needs to be an introduction of more levels of road, to incorporate height, width, surface, bends, weight.

IE: If two 5m high lorries, each with a 40' static caravan on the back can transit the road and pass each other, then it's an A road. (If a F1 car can also drive down it with smooth tyres)

If the same 5m high lorry with a static caravan can transit the entire road without holding up freight traffic coming the other way, then it's a B road. (And the F1 car can do it with conventional rubber)

and so on ..... right down to a foot path.

 

[Guigsy]

That is my point.

The TomTom & Gamin categories of road are too simple.
The A39 at Porlock has a max weight of 18t and caravans are banned.

There needs to be an introduction of more levels of road, to incorporate height, width, surface, bends, weight.

IE: If two 5m high lorries, each with a 40' static caravan on the back can transit the road and pass each other, then it's an A road. (If a F1 car can also drive down it with smooth tyres)

If the same 5m high lorry with a static caravan can transit the entire road without holding up freight traffic coming the other way, then it's a B road. (And the F1 car can do it with conventional rubber)

and so on ..... right down to a foot path.

It's a massively complex issue. If a narrow road is pretty quiet and mostly cars, it's not a problem. But if it's got a 10 minute interval bus running down it, you're much more likely to have conflict.

Other factors are forward visibility, are the sides a verge, hedge or wall, how frequent passing spots are, if they're part of the highway and whether they're marked... The list goes on.

Passing spots might be fine for a 6m van, but a 7m van has difficulty using them. Or a few cm of extra width can rapidly change a usable road into a puckered stress fest.

It's a hard problem with not enough data to be able to solve it.

 

[Brains]

It's a massively complex issue. If a narrow road is pretty quiet and mostly cars, it's not a problem. But if it's got a 10 minute interval bus running down it, you're much more likely to have conflict.

Other factors are forward visibility, are the sides a verge, hedge or wall, how frequent passing spots are, if they're part of the highway and whether they're marked... The list goes on.

Passing spots might be fine for a 6m van, but a 7m van has difficulty using them. Or a few cm of extra width can rapidly change a usable road into a puckered stress fest.

It's a hard problem with not enough data to be able to solve it.

It will need to be resolved, and resolved soon, as semi automated cars are already on the roads.
Whist they may work in most of western Europe and the USA without an issue on most roads as the infrastructure has been continually improved over the last century.

They are not going to work in Cornwall, with a summer population of over a million vehicles where many thousands of miles of the lanes have not been improved since they were first tarmacked between 1922 and 1935 (nearly a century ago).

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[Next Stop]

It will need to be resolved, and resolved soon, as semi automated cars are already on the roads.
Whist they may work in most of western Europe and the USA without an issue on most roads as the infrastructure has been continually improved over the last century.

They are not going to work in Cornwall, with a summer population of over a million vehicles where many thousands of miles of the lanes have not been improved since they were first tarmacked between 1922 and 1935 (nearly a century ago).

I predict that we are going to have a data explosion, you imagine if every amazon delivery vehicle was equipped with sensor technology that could map out road dimensions, it wouldn't take long before the whole of the western worlds roads were mapped out to within a square inch. Then get someone who's really clever to make sense of it all and stitch all of the data points together to make one super road map that can be configured for every individual circumstance.

 

[Guigsy]

It will need to be resolved, and resolved soon, as semi automated cars are already on the roads.
Whist they may work in most of western Europe and the USA without an issue on most roads as the infrastructure has been continually improved over the last century.

They are not going to work in Cornwall, with a summer population of over a million vehicles where many thousands of miles of the lanes have not been improved since they were first tarmacked between 1922 and 1935 (nearly a century ago).

British rural roads are really, really hard for self driving cars. It will be a looong time before Cornwall has Teslas cruising the back country lanes. Negotiating single track effectively requires you to do a nonverbal negotiation with the other vehicle as to who slows and takes the passing spot. Which alters based on comparative vehicle sizes and how many people are in your chain of cars. It's a tough skill that a "reacting to the situation" auto pilot isn't even close to being able to do. Currently they get stuck if someone puts a traffic cone on the bonnet.

Fed Up Citizens Disable San Francisco's Self-Driving Cars With Traffic Cones

An activist group called Safe Street Rebel are promoting the tactic on TikTok.

jalopnik.com

 

[Brains]

British rural roads are really, really hard for self driving cars. It will be a looong time before Cornwall has Teslas cruising the back country lanes. Negotiating single track effectively requires you to do a nonverbal negotiation with the other vehicle as to who slows and takes the passing spot. Which alters based on comparative vehicle sizes and how many people are in your chain of cars. It's a tough skill that a "reacting to the situation" auto pilot isn't even close to being able to do. Currently they get stuck if someone puts a traffic cone on the bonnet.

Fed Up Citizens Disable San Francisco's Self-Driving Cars With Traffic Cones

An activist group called Safe Street Rebel are promoting the tactic on TikTok.

jalopnik.com

If both vehicles have a degree of automation then the problem does not arise.
As one vehicle will stop (or suggest a stop) at a pre-mapped wide spot and wait for the other vehicle to pass.

It does not have to wait until the vehicles can 'see' each other, as they will know where the other vehicles on the single track road are, and therefore slow some vehicles and speed up others so as to get a convoy in each direction.

 

[Guigsy]

If both vehicles have a degree of automation then the problem does not arise.
As one vehicle will stop (or suggest a stop) at a pre-mapped wide spot and wait for the other vehicle to pass.

It does not have to wait until the vehicles can 'see' each other, as they will know where the other vehicles on the single track road are, and therefore slow some vehicles and speed up others so as to get a convoy in each direction.

That assumes that self driving vehicles talk to each other. Despite about 30 years of trying, the Intelligent Transport Systems industry has failed to get car manufacturers to agree on a standard.

It also doesn't help until all cars are self driving. A couple of human driven cars would make the convoy jam up.