To bee or not to bee? That is the question.

[DBK]

... s friend thought it might be a ‘meeting place’. They leave pollen in the cracks around the velux windowframe ...

Honey bees will collect water, they use it to control humidity in the hive. There might be condensation in the cracks? The only "meeting places" they have are the mating sites where hundreds of drones wait for a new queen to appear. These are usually in the same place each year but the drones hang about in the air twenty metres or so up not I believe on the ground. These sites have been discovered by tethering a young queen under a balloon and flying it around until she attracts a comet of drones wanting to mate with her.

 

[suavecarve]

DBK ... as MHF resident bee expert ... every May time we have vast numbers of bees on our roof ... our neighbour a mile away has similar ... they stay for a few weeks then disappear ... they particularly like sunny days ... any ideas?

I m fairly stumped by this as well.
The only possible explanation that i can think of is you have residential colony and when you see the vast numbers is it just after a couple of rainy or cold days ? If that is right you could just happen to notice them when the newbies are doing their orientiation flights, and when the new Queen(s) are doing their mating flight.
When this occurs the noise will bring it to your attention first. On the second one it will be like a formula 1 starting grid.
Then under normal circumstances you may not notice them
As for the pollen being left, I can only think that there is a gap they have to climb through that knocks off the pollen as they go in

 

[suavecarve]

Honey bees will collect water, they use it to control humidity in the hive. There might be condensation in the cracks? The only "meeting places" they have are the mating sites where hundreds of drones wait for a new queen to appear. These are usually in the same place each year but the drones hang about in the air twenty metres or so up not I believe on the ground. These sites have been discovered by tethering a young queen under a balloon and flying it around until she attracts a comet of drones wanting to mate with her.

Is that how they did the filming for the programmes of Drones mating with Queens ?

 

[tonyidle]

I ve had a reread and noticed the bit "Under the Shed".
Highly likely to be bumblebees then.
If they are Bumbles, then they live in a colony up to 500 and over winter in the ground.
They can get pretty active if their place of abode is upset (You walking into the shed) but a quick removal from the area is advisable and they might follow a bit but wont get all waspy in wanting to give you the benefit of their sting. Their sting is generally more painful than a honeybee.
Honeybees swarm and end up in a clump and really quite docile when swarming (swarming season is now) and a swarm will be anywhere from 30,000 (really big swarm) to a couple of thousand for a cast swarm. They tend to land on branch or on the eaves of a house or anywhere they can attach to and drop down whilst they look for permanent residence and thats when the beekeeper comes along to catch them and remove them to a nice house (hive)
In order catch the swarm, the beekeeper has to catch the Queen and all the others will follow her to whereever she goes.
There are videos on youtube where a swarm has say 10,000 bees in it. Shake the bees into a bucket and bung them into a carry hive and put the lid on. You might catch 5,000 of them including the Queen. The other 5,000 go back to where they were so you shake them into the bucket and put them just outside the carry hive on a white towel (so it is easier to video them) and then they all just march into the carry hive. Bleeding fascinating.

DBK

I'd never seen a swarm close up. Then a bee keeper moved in next door and we had two in the first year. He did exactly as you say but not before I'd had time to get really close to photograph them. Even touching the swarm has little effect. Amazing sight. The first swarm was on one our garden ornaments and was ideal for getting close.

 

[suavecarve]

I'd never seen a swarm close up. Then a bee keeper moved in next door and we had two in the first year. He did exactly as you say but not before I'd had time to get really close to photograph them. Even touching the swarm has little effect. Amazing sight. The first swarm was on one our garden ornaments and was ideal for getting close.

Surprisingly I am really quite allergic to bee stings. Not to the point of Anaphylatic but enough to make sure I have anti histamines in liquid form, yet when i go to check out a swarm I never bother to put my kit on and can easily get within a couple of metres and feel very confident. I am not confident enough to touch the swarm under those conditions.
The manner in which to collect the swarm (generally) is to shake them all off into a bucket and throw them into your portable hive hoping you have the queen. You might get 50 per cent of them and the other half go back to the place they just were (couple of metres away) then when you know you have the Queen (the bees stick their bums in the air outside the entrance and do a silly dance) you get the rest in a bucket and thrown them outside. Then you can sit and watch 5,000 bees follow each other in through the little gap. Fascinating stuff, and you dont need any kit at this stage (or i dont)
Small video of them walking in made by me. But it isnt majorly dramatic
This is a better video of bees going into the hive

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[kevenh]

On a small tangent, after several years of providing solitary bees a home in a tube hotel, the kevenhs went to Amalfi to stay on a working farm that provided tourist accommodation (forgotten the name of that).

I hadn’t been there long before I mentioned that I was a bee keeper. I don’t think I got to explain that my tasks were a lot more passive and homey free though.
Anyway, that afternoon the farmer asked me to come and help him.

He was putting a swarm back into a hive ?

My job was to smoke the bees when he was “encouraging” them into the hive.
I stepped back to take some pics.
So, although this incident turned out well, I need to remember that where humour needs some translation, watch for the laugh because the absence can lead to an unplanned adventure - at best.

 

[DBK]

Is that how they did the filming for the programmes of Drones mating with Queens ?

I think I remember seeing that and yes, at the time I thought the queen must be captive. They only mate in the air.

 

[tonyidle]

Surprisingly I am really quite allergic to bee stings. Not to the point of Anaphylatic but enough to make sure I have anti histamines in liquid form, yet when i go to check out a swarm I never bother to put my kit on and can easily get within a couple of metres and feel very confident. I am not confident enough to touch the swarm under those conditions.
The manner in which to collect the swarm (generally) is to shake them all off into a bucket and throw them into your portable hive hoping you have the queen. You might get 50 per cent of them and the other half go back to the place they just were (couple of metres away) then when you know you have the Queen (the bees stick their bums in the air outside the entrance and do a silly dance) you get the rest in a bucket and thrown them outside. Then you can sit and watch 5,000 bees follow each other in through the little gap. Fascinating stuff, and you dont need any kit at this stage (or i dont)
Small video of them walking in made by me. But it isnt majorly dramatic
This is a better video of bees going into the hive

My neighbours technique is to gather a bunch in a white cloth making sure he has the queen. Then, near to the remainder of the swarm, he lays the cloth & bees on the ground with a box over the bees. The rest of the bees crawl under the edge of the box to join the others. He leaves it around 30 minutes before returning to take them away. There don't seem to be many stragglers left when he's done. Really interesting to watch for the first time.

 

[suavecarve]

My neighbours technique is to gather a bunch in a white cloth making sure he has the queen. Then, near to the remainder of the swarm, he lays the cloth & bees on the ground with a box over the bees. The rest of the bees crawl under the edge of the box to join the others. He leaves it around 30 minutes before returning to take them away. There don't seem to be many stragglers left when he's done. Really interesting to watch for the first time.

That system is basically the same. Capture the Queen and the others will follow.
I always return at night when they are all in bed and take them away at that stage to ensure they are all caught as the isolated ones can get upset and might sting someone when they cant find their colony.
I also spray where they were with hair spray to disguise the pheromones that remain on the place they swarmed to just in case there is a small cluster of bees with no Queen.

 

[tonyidle]

That system is basically the same. Capture the Queen and the others will follow.
I always return at night when they are all in bed and take them away at that stage to ensure they are all caught as the isolated ones can get upset and might sting someone when they cant find their colony.
I also spray where they were with hair spray to disguise the pheromones that remain on the place they swarmed to just in case there is a small cluster of bees with no Queen.

It's interesting to see & hear about how it depends on understanding their behaviour. I can see how once that's understood there'll be a few different ways to collect them. The only other effect of having a beekeeper next door (apart from ushering them out of the house on a regular basis. And trying to dissuade the dogs from catching them) is the little yellow waxy streaks they leave on cars and mh. I like to think of it as free polish ?. He's a really nice guy and is about as eco-friendly as they come. He came to ask me if I minded him keeping bees before he moved in. Apparently neighbours where he lived before had given him a lot of grief over them. As far as I'm concerned they're a bonus.

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[SpeedyDux]

A couple of years ago I had a colony of at least 50 Buff Tail bumblebees that took over an old bird nestbox on my shed. After the colony suddenly disappeared (I suspect they followed a new queen and went somewhere else) the nest box which was rotten anyway went to the Tip. I replaced it with a purpose-built bee box, but since then no takers except spiders.

Likewise no takers for the purpose-built Bug Hotel which seems strange. Instead solitary mason bees and leafcutter bees nest here and there including very small holes in the outer brickwork of my house, even though that gets the full sun and is quite hot at this time of year.

 

[suavecarve]

It's interesting to see & hear about how it depends on understanding their behaviour. I can see how once that's understood there'll be a few different ways to collect them. The only other effect of having a beekeeper next door (apart from ushering them out of the house on a regular basis. And trying to dissuade the dogs from catching them) is the little yellow waxy streaks they leave on cars and mh. I like to think of it as free polish ?. He's a really nice guy and is about as eco-friendly as they come.

I hate to disappoint you and your waxing theory but those streaks are a different type of bee bi product which they dispose of on the way back home so they dont infect the hive. I have no idea if it helps with your waxing or not.
What you can ask him for is a bit of wax which you melt and mix 3 to 1 with extra virgin oil and then you will have a nice beeswax for wood. I have made some but not used it on the van

Just about to throw a photo of my new gazebo onto the photo of hte day thread and my beehives are in the background o top of my conservatory

 

[kevenh]

A couple of years ago I had a colony of at least 50 Buff Tail bumblebees that took over an old bird nestbox on my shed. After the colony suddenly disappeared (I suspect they followed a new queen and went somewhere else) the nest box which was rotten anyway went to the Tip. I replaced it with a purpose-built bee box, but since then no takers except spiders.

Likewise no takers for the purpose-built Bug Hotel which seems strange. Instead solitary mason bees and leafcutter bees nest here and there including very small holes in the outer brickwork of my house, even though that gets the full sun and is quite hot at this time of year.

Location?
My main bee hotel was a May birthday present.
mrskevenh allowed me to fit the hotel to the fence near a bush.
After 2 weeks no bees were using it.
A quick internet search later & I was asking to move the hotel to our garage wall. This is south facing and catches a lot of sun.
Grudgingly, swmbo agreed (the path to the garage is close to the wall.).

Even as a I was up the ladder, bees were moving in.

So, our solitary bees are very fussy. They didn't like the bush moving and changing the light over their home in the 1st location.

Any bushes or light issues with your Bug Hotel?

 

[SpeedyDux]

Location?
My main bee hotel was a May birthday present.
mrskevenh allowed me to fit the hotel to the fence near a bush.
After 2 weeks no bees were using it.
A quick internet search later & I was asking to move the hotel to our garage wall. This is south facing and catches a lot of sun.
Grudgingly, swmbo agreed (the path to the garage is close to the wall.).

Even as a I was up the ladder, bees were moving in.

So, our solitary bees are very fussy. They didn't like the bush moving and changing the light over their home in the 1st location.

Any bushes or light issues with your Bug Hotel?

As I type the Bug Hotel is in full morning sun on an east facing fence. There is a bit of shade on the bottom part but most of it never gets any.

Thanks for the advice anyway. I could try moving it in case something else is putting off the bees and bugs.

 

[eddie]

My Daughter in Law is bright, very bright, Masters Degree bright, but was amazed that in the same way that Bee's give us Honey, without wasps, there would be no jam! She didn't know that.

So few people do, and kill wasps on sight

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[movan]

My Daughter in Law is bright, very bright, Masters Degree bright, but was amazed that in the same way that Bee's give us Honey, without wasps, there would be no jam! She didn't know that.

So few people do, and kill wasps on sight

???

 

[suavecarve]

My Daughter in Law is bright, very bright, Masters Degree bright, but was amazed that in the same way that Bee's give us Honey, without wasps, there would be no jam! She didn't know that.

So few people do, and kill wasps on sight

The only sentence wasps and jam should be in together should include the word "Trap"

 

[tonyidle]

I hate to disappoint you and your waxing theory but those streaks are a different type of bee bi product which they dispose of on the way back home so they dont infect the hive. I have no idea if it helps with your waxing or not.
What you can ask him for is a bit of wax which you melt and mix 3 to 1 with extra virgin oil and then you will have a nice beeswax for wood. I have made some but not used it on the van

Just about to throw a photo of my new gazebo onto the photo of hte day thread and my beehives are in the background o top of my conservatory

No - didn't think they were beeswax. If you rub them with your finger they're waxy though - they smear.

 

[Grianan]

Honey bees will collect water, they use it to control humidity in the hive. There might be condensation in the cracks? The only "meeting places" they have are the mating sites where hundreds of drones wait for a new queen to appear. These are usually in the same place each year but the drones hang about in the air twenty metres or so up not I believe on the ground. These sites have been discovered by tethering a young queen under a balloon and flying it around until she attracts a comet of drones wanting to mate with her.

I m fairly stumped by this as well.
The only possible explanation that i can think of is you have residential colony and when you see the vast numbers is it just after a couple of rainy or cold days ? If that is right you could just happen to notice them when the newbies are doing their orientiation flights, and when the new Queen(s) are doing their mating flight.
When this occurs the noise will bring it to your attention first. On the second one it will be like a formula 1 starting grid.
Then under normal circumstances you may not notice them
As for the pollen being left, I can only think that there is a gap they have to climb through that knocks off the pollen as they go in

That’s quite possible then. It is really noisy when it happens! The roof must be about 7m so nowhere near 20m. They’re not aggressive either ... for the first couple of days I can sit in the front garden but as It gets louder and there are more bees (or the bees are more active) I retreat elsewhere.

 

[Nanniemate]

really enjoyed reading this thread and the pictures thank you

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[Mrsambulancekidd]

Great thread, I love bees and anyone who also loves them.

 

[Quackers]

Rescued a large swarm last week, a little shake of a branch and managed to get them into a cardboard box, and then into a new hive. Incredible creatures, seem to thrive round here and the honey they produce is something special.

 

[ManTheVan]

I love bees too and we’re lucky to host a couple of hives for a beekeeper.

Sad moment yesterday, though, when we took the MH to the beach for the day and on the A38 near Buckfastleigh we ran into a swarm of bees, which sounded like a machine gun going off when we hit them. Cruise control was set to 56 mph but it still made a mess of the swarm and also the whole front of the MH. This will wash off, but we must have killed 100 bees at least. ☹

 

[suavecarve]

I love bees too and we’re lucky to host a couple of hives for a beekeeper.

Sad moment yesterday, though, when we took the MH to the beach for the day and on the A38 near Buckfastleigh we ran into a swarm of bees, which sounded like a machine gun going off when we hit them. Cruise control was set to 56 mph but it still made a mess of the swarm and also the whole front of the MH. This will wash off, but we must have killed 100 bees at least. ☹

Although the death by careless driving of 100 bees (joking) it will only be significant if the Queen was one of your victims. They are normally flying higher than that so probably just landing or taken off as she was getting tired (The Queen)

Whilst they are in swarm mode they cannot reproduce a Queen as there are no eggs to change into a Queen from worker.

What they do normally in a hive situation if they decide the Queen isnt up to it or dies unexpectedly is change a few worker bees into a Queen and let nature make the decision as to which one takes over.

Basically you get one Queen who lays up to 2,000 eggs a day. a few hundred Drones (males) who have no other job but to get the Queen preggers once. and the rest (potentially up to 80,000) are worker bees (females) who have different jobs at different times of life. They start off as cleaners and progress to feeders before taking on the role of nanny and then becoming architects for the building of comb then onto Security Officer as they guard the hive and then after about 3 weeks they can go and do the shopping (pollen collection) before they die aged 6 weeks (in the summer as they live up to 6 months in the winter)

 

[Quackers]

Sad but hopefully you missed the queen, that number will reproduce quickly to fill their new home. Well done for hosting hives I wish more people would do this. As you already have a bee keeper on site perhaps you should also consider your own hive and ask the keeper to mentor you. That will dispose of your guilt, well apart from the odd one or two you may squash when you put the hive lid back on. Crunch.

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[suavecarve]

£260 gets you a basic hive and basic equipment to pop a hive somewhere.

A mentor to oversee you is highly preferable. And buying Bill Turnbills "bad beekeeping book" is a must as i think we have all made the mistakes he has made and its more of a book than a guide so interesting to non beekeepers.

Bees on a Budget, The Basic Kit, National Hive 14" x 12" brood body, Flat or Assembled

Popular National beehive handmade from sustainable English cedar at our factory in Lincolnshire, UK. Ideal economical starter kit for beginners and novices, complete with essential beekeeping equipment.

www.thorne.co.uk

 

[movan]

Hi Richard, know you are an expert but thought you might find some interesting reading on here.

Richard W

 

[scally]

Sadly my bumbling have gone, probably a wayward queen as previously posted. Great thread most interesting by far

 

[suavecarve]

... s friend thought it might be a ‘meeting place’. They leave pollen in the cracks around the velux windowframe ...

I ve just re read this and there is another possible possibility.
It would depend on your identification of pollen.
Are there little droplets of different but mainly coloured little balls or is what you see dark brown nearly black and potentially gluey. Very gluey ?
If it s the latter that would propolis and they would be filling in gaps and you would have a swarm of honey bees protecting different ways into the hive to stop the wasps and hornets robbing them.

Propolis has numerous different health qualities and so worthy of looking up especially for arthritis and other joint issues. It is even used in the treatment of some cancers. It can sell for £1,000 a kilo.
I made tinctures of propolis using an 80 per cent solution of alcohol and turning into a 20 per cent tincture for external usage.

I also made lip balms using the bees wax and coconut oil with Vitamin E and flavouring which my Nepalese colleagues love as it seems to have cured their cold sores (they dont get them anymore) (This has not been peer reviewed)

Also made candles and they smell lovely but i only use 20 percent beeswax

 

[suavecarve]

That’s quite possible then. It is really noisy when it happens! The roof must be about 7m so nowhere near 20m. They’re not aggressive either ... for the first couple of days I can sit in the front garden but as It gets louder and there are more bees (or the bees are more active) I retreat elsewhere.

Whilst re reading and just updated with my last post. I dont think i read this one first time round.
If you have the noise, and it is a noise. (mine are only 2 metres high and it is like a formula 1 start up grid when they swarm. It cannot be mistaken. If you are getting the noise then it is almost certain you have honeybees and then you have to work out how long they have been there and how much honey there is up there.
The honey will be magnificent. Dont worry about the age of it as they cover it in wax. But the important bit in taste is the bees will not have been sugar fed so it is as pure or raw honey as you can get. It is stunning and nothing like the rubbish you can buy in Sainsburys. Honey only comes from a local beekeeper. "Honey" from a shop is flavoured sugar water.

To tell the difference get a cup of hot water and drop some "honey" into it. If it dissolves you have purchased rubbish. If it doesnt dissolve when you shake it and makes a honey comb shape then add some lemon and stir it til it does dissolve and drink it.

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