To anyone awaiting spares from German manufacturers

[chaser]

I ordered a tractor starter from Germany before this thread appeared , so sent them a message asking what's happening, and this is what I have had back.
Not much use if we are waiting to start a tractor though is it?

 

[Cheshirecat57]

The way i see it is the EU intend to make the UK pay one way or another for having the guts to leave the EU so i will be buying as much as possible from elsewhere.

Like UK??

 

[DBK]

The way i see it is the EU intend to make the UK pay one way or another for having the guts to leave the EU so i will be buying as much as possible from elsewhere.

This thread is about bringing stuff in from the EU to the UK. The difficulties being reported are entirely down to the UK's decisions. The problems sending stuff the other way are down to the EU but the rules about fish and meat etc are not new and the UK probably had a part in approving them when we were in the EU.

 

[Lemut]

Err sort of, how about the whole van from Burstner...

 

[therealvicz]

A lot of overseas suppliers around the world will now no longer ship to the UK following changes introduced to coincide with (but not directly related to) Brexit. Contrary to what some have said about things going back to like it was pre-EU where the purchaser paid tax and duties etc on delivery, it's much worse.

In their infinite wisdom the government decided that anyone around the world selling goods under £135 (I think) to UK consumers must register with HMRC and account for VAT etc directly. This is not just from the EU, but from everywhere and applies to everyone who sells. So your 'mom and pop' operations who might sell T-shirts or hot sauce or stickers for your van from Michigan, or Delft or Johannesburg all have to register with HMRC and pay several hundred pounds for the privilege and then also file returns and send the VAT into the UK on every UK sale. They don't have to do this for any other country.

You can read about what Willia Shatner thinks of it <Broken link removed> but I have also heard about many other sellers who just won't bother. It costs them a load of money for absolutely no benefit. To me it's insane, your mileage may vary as they say.

It's slightly different for marketplace sites that aggregate many sellers or for orders over the threshold but since marketplace sites usually levy their own fees it's going to cost small suppliers no matter what.

Ordered a bike part from a dealer in Kentucky on 6th Jan. despatched using UPS price included pre-paid import duty, delivered to my UK address 18th Jan by Hermes. Somethings working...

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[gus-lopez]

I thought that crocs were made in China......

& Portugal & spain..........

So do you really think that the size of UK market for foreign sellers of good is not worth bothering with.

Even when they get here the hauliers are being treated like shite by the Uk to get back out . The UK & Kent think fines are the answer along with covid tests Outside Kent .

Yep. Big multinationals will be fine.

Not necessarily.Many haulage companies are turning down uK bound loads, others are running out of money for the vat they have to guarantee for the loads they are transporting.Others in Ireland are having to return empty so doubling their costs.

The business model of DPD is very different. Whilst they are evolving into a professional business, and I for one like their ground breaking app and slot management, they started as a bunch of white van men and based their model on down to a price.

News to me ,Owned by La Poste. Yes French.
For me buying from the UK I always insisted that DPD was used as it tied up here using SEUR

The Times todayView attachment 458449

I was reading a haulage article today stating that there was a 168% rise in firms refusing UK loads from the Europe

 

[DuxDeluxe]

& Portugal & spain..........

It was a joke, you know........

 

[sallylillian]

gus-lopez It would seem I was wrong!
DPD began life in the UK in 1970 as Courier Express, changing its name to Parceline in 1984 when it was acquired by Mayne Nickless of Australia. La Poste bought the company in 2000. In 2008, Parceline became known as DPD. La Poste has invested substantially in DPD's infrastructure

 

[Trackman]

So do you really think that the size of UK market for foreign sellers of good is not worth bothering with.

I assume that carriers & suppliers hope that their decisions will make our HMRC/government see sense, & put in place rules similar to other countries.
No small export business could afford to register for VAT with every separate country they sell into, nor could they cope with the admin.
They fear the UK will set a precedent, and things could go that way if the UK gets away with this.

 

[bobnick]

Searching for new MoHo.
Has to be on UK chassis, with UK engine and UK body built.
Do they exist?
Obviously cannot rely of parts being delivered from Europe should they be needed apparently.

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[bilM]

I ordered some stuff from the Netherlands last night and it all went through and paid for today i got a email telling me Sorry order has been cancelled due to shipping and taxes money put into my acc.

 

[Coolcats]

This Guardian article may help:


Before Brexit, UK consumers were free to buy items from anywhere in the EU without incurring import duties and other charges. That all changed on 1 January 2021.

Online orders up to £135 are now supposed to have the UK’s prevailing VAT rate added at the point of sale by the EU retailer, which has to have registered with HM Revenue & Customs.

Lots of smaller EU-based retailers have decided that the paperwork of collecting UK VAT is not worth the hassle and as a result will no longer supply UK consumers.

Other EU retailers appear to have carried on as before, and have been sending out orders without having deducted the VAT. This has led to couriers turning up on doorsteps demanding the UK buyer pay the VAT owed on the item they are receiving. The rate will be between 0% and 20% depending on the item.

Anyone in the UK receiving a gift from the EU worth more than £39 will now face a bill for import VAT at 20%.

Items below £135 bought through the big online marketplaces such as Amazon will have had UK VAT added and therefore can be delivered in the UK with no extra charges demanded.

For orders above £135 it is more complicated as they also attract import duty, which can range from 0% to 25% of the item’s value depending on what it is, what material it is made from and its declared value. There are thousands of different rates of duty and the system is difficult to navigate. Clothes typically attract a 12% customs duty, but it’s hard to generalise.

VAT is then added to the total – at the prevailing UK rate, which for most adult items is 20%. The couriers also add their admin charge of between £8 (Royal Mail) and £11.50 (UPS), or 2.5% of the amount paid to clear customs, with a minimum charge of £11 (DHL).

For example, a £200 coat bought from a German website could attract 12% or £24 customs duty. VAT at 20% is then applied to the total of £224, giving a VAT bill of £44.80. Once the courier has added its £11.50 admin fee, the UK consumer must pay £80.30 to the courier on the doorstep before it will hand over the item – adding around 40% to the coat’s price.

Orders made before 1 January should not attract these charges.

 

[Sapper520]

Must be a conspiracy theory in here somewhere........

(Joke...sorry).

 

[ED O'DARAC]

Update: Yesterday I received a replacement part from Koblenz, Germany (rear door window for our Adria Twin demonstrator.) UPS took four days. No extra charges and delivered to the door.
I think it is settling down. Covid mucked it up at the wrong moment, I think, as every driver suddenly needed testing, but where there's a will there's a way.

 

[sallylillian]

Oddly I have had 2 parcels (UPS) from Germany, one overnight, yet one from Morelo sent before these is still in Frankfurt and has been for 14 days!!!

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[Lenny HB]

In theory there should be hardly any change to the price of imported goods unless there is a handling charge by the carrier.

i.e. Buy an item listed at £119 from Germany it should cost you £120, (£119 Less German vat at 19% German + UK vat at 20%).
Items from France & Belgium should be cheaper as their vat rate is higher than the UK's.

 

[sallylillian]

I think it depends on the invoice documents the sender includes. Also random inspections are being exercised which was never the case. It will settle.

 

[Ditcha]

I received this back for a parcel I am waiting for quite a increase

 

[Lenny HB]

For example, a £200 coat bought from a German website could attract 12% or £24 customs duty. VAT at 20% is then applied to the total of £224, giving a VAT bill of £44.80. Once the courier has added its £11.50 admin fee, the UK consumer must pay £80.30 to the courier on the doorstep before it will hand over the item – adding around 40% to the coat’s price.

Who are the idiots that write these articles, glaring mistake, they have added duty and vat to the German retail price should have been the net price £200 already has German vat at 19% included which should be taken off before UK duty and vat added.

 

[meanders]

My part eventually arrived via Deutsche Post and Parcel force with no add on costs.

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[Jenka]

Amazing the rest of the world managed to sell to us before, and us to them.

Any hiccups are down to HMRC trying to clamp down on VAT evasion.

I'm sure the EU are are playing their part too

 

[Coolcats]

Who are the idiots that write these articles, glaring mistake, they have added duty and vat to the German retail price should have been the net price £200 already has German vat at 19% included which should be taken off before UK duty and vat added.

You may find the reporter is just reporting the customer Experiance. I have two item from Europe one is a Phillips product the shipping and costs appear to be absorbed by the manufacturer, they after all control their Margins and know what % they need to be profitable there is no retailer in between in this case. The second item is from a small manufacture it costs €16. However once shipping and taxes are added it is costing a total of €32. I would not normally expect to pay more than €22 in the past. in addition our government has told small business to set up shop in Europe to avoid the additional costs this means less jobs and less tax for HMRC.

I am not arguing the rights and wrongs just saying I don’t think from my experience and that of many customers and business the article is far out and one reason Ireland are not happy bunnies.

 

[Coolcats]

My part eventually arrived via Deutsche Post and Parcel force with no add on costs.

Same as my Phillips order but the other order was more expensive

 

[Westbarn1]

Ordered a crash helmet from Germany last week, plus £5.50 post, has arrived, nothing extra to pay.

 

[Gromett]

Online orders up to £135 are now supposed to have the UK’s prevailing VAT rate added at the point of sale by the EU retailer, which has to have registered with HM Revenue & Customs.

Lots of smaller EU-based retailers have decided that the paperwork of collecting UK VAT is not worth the hassle and as a result will no longer supply UK consumers.

I think it was around 2015 from memory.. The EU brought in a new digital service VAT rule. Any company selling digital services had to charge the VAT rate of the country it was selling into.
I had recently sold the hosting component of my company and this meant I could de-register for VAT which I did. I then found that to keep my remaining EU clients I had to re-register even though I was under the UK VAT threshold.

On talking to my clients I found that a lot of them were also stopping selling to the EU. The 2 that spring to mind is the lady who was a single mum and ran her own knitting patterns business online. She had to either register for VAT which would put ALL her prices up by 20% or she had to stop selling to the EU and lose 15% of her regular client base. Either way it knocked her back big time. The other business was a retired gentleman who only had the state pension. He boosted this by making and selling small model train sound effects and digital plans for small buildings and other similar stuff. He stopped selling to the EU and lost 30% of his customer base over night.

I decided to stop selling to the EU...

Lots of US digital businesses (small ones) also refuse to sell to the UK/EU for this reason also. If you look at freelancer sites like Upwork, you will see that this US based company charges VAT on the freelancers behalf.

It is not a new thing, and we are only replicating the EU way of doing things now we have left as the systems were already in place.

There are 2 things to note here.

If a certain part is available from a UK manufacturer and an EU manufacturer. Would it be fair for the EU one to be sold into the UK VAT free? So if vat is to be charged what is the most effective way to charge it.
Should we force the company selling to collect it, or should we pay for thousands of border inspectors to add bills to each shipment then chase up the end customer for the payment?

On the import duty side. The biggest issue is that a lot of products from the EU contain or are 100% manufactured outside the EU so fall outside of the free trade zero tariff deal. (Rules of origin)

For instance, a starter motor may have had the casting made in China, the wires for the winding made in India, then assembled in the EU. This would not be classed as an EU product under the rules of origin (which work both ways).
However, if the casting was made in Poland and the wires made in Germany then assembled in France, it would be an EU product and no tariffs would be charged.

It doesn't strike me as too complicated to be honest. We are just working through a bedding in period where companies get used to what paper work is required and making changes to procedures. Some companies will change suppliers to ensure they fall within rules of origin.

Here is one more thing to think about.
If the starter motor in my example above gets too expensive, 2 things will happen. The EU companies if they want to retain business here will have to onshore the manufacturing. OR people in this country will see an opportunity and start making stuff here or importing directly.
Remember that casting will have had customs duties paid on it, then when sending it to the UK more customs duty due to rules of origin. That will make is a lot more expensive.

This is the main reason I am interested in the Pacific trade deal. Not because we will get any benefits from lower costs although we will in some cases. But it makes the rules of origin simpler in that any member of that trade agreement has mutual agreed rules of origin.
So something partly made in Australian, Japan and Mexico would be considered as valid for rules of origin exemption. Whereas currently we can't export to Australia something containing any Japanese parts without it being subject to tariffs due to rules of origin issues.

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[Coolcats]

I think it was around 2015 from memory.. The EU brought in a new digital service VAT rule. Any company selling digital services had to charge the VAT rate of the country it was selling into.
I had recently sold the hosting component of my company and this meant I could de-register for VAT which I did. I then found that to keep my remaining EU clients I had to re-register even though I was under the UK VAT threshold.

On talking to my clients I found that a lot of them were also stopping selling to the EU. The 2 that spring to mind is the lady who was a single mum and ran her own knitting patterns business online. She had to either register for VAT which would put ALL her prices up by 20% or she had to stop selling to the EU and lose 15% of her regular client base. Either way it knocked her back big time. The other business was a retired gentleman who only had the state pension. He boosted this by making and selling small model train sound effects and digital plans for small buildings and other similar stuff. He stopped selling to the EU and lost 30% of his customer base over night.

I decided to stop selling to the EU...

Lots of US digital businesses (small ones) also refuse to sell to the UK/EU for this reason also. If you look at freelancer sites like Upwork, you will see that this US based company charges VAT on the freelancers behalf.

It is not a new thing, and we are only replicating the EU way of doing things now we have left as the systems were already in place.

There are 2 things to note here.

If a certain part is available from a UK manufacturer and an EU manufacturer. Would it be fair for the EU one to be sold into the UK VAT free? So if vat is to be charged what is the most effective way to charge it.
Should we force the company selling to collect it, or should we pay for thousands of border inspectors to add bills to each shipment then chase up the end customer for the payment?

On the import duty side. The biggest issue is that a lot of products from the EU contain or are 100% manufactured outside the EU so fall outside of the free trade zero tariff deal. (Rules of origin)

For instance, a starter motor may have had the casting made in China, the wires for the winding made in India, then assembled in the EU. This would not be classed as an EU product under the rules of origin (which work both ways).
However, if the casting was made in Poland and the wires made in Germany then assembled in France, it would be an EU product and no tariffs would be charged.

It doesn't strike me as too complicated to be honest. We are just working through a bedding in period where companies get used to what paper work is required and making changes to procedures. Some companies will change suppliers to ensure they fall within rules of origin.

Here is one more thing to think about.
If the starter motor in my example above gets too expensive, 2 things will happen. The EU companies if they want to retain business here will have to onshore the manufacturing. OR people in this country will see an opportunity and start making stuff here or importing directly.
Remember that casting will have had customs duties paid on it, then when sending it to the UK more customs duty due to rules of origin. That will make is a lot more expensive.

This is the main reason I am interested in the Pacific trade deal. Not because we will get any benefits from lower costs although we will in some cases. But it makes the rules of origin simpler in that any member of that trade agreement has mutual agreed rules of origin.
So something partly made in Australian, Japan and Mexico would be considered as valid for rules of origin exemption. Whereas currently we can't export to Australia something containing any Japanese parts without it being subject to tariffs due to rules of origin issues.

Running a business is never easy, if it profitable do it if not then don't. Some UK companies keep under the VAT threshold as they do not want the addition hassle and make a living from what they do. Its all a game you can choose to play it or not as the case may be.

 

[Gromett]

Running a business is never easy, if it profitable do it if not then don't. Some UK companies keep under the VAT threshold as they do not want the addition hassle and make a living from what they do. Its all a game you can choose to play it or not as the case may be.

I agree. If you are in services with no materials cost and can work from home, staying under the VAT threshold is extremely beneficial.

However, it is not a choice if you want to sell to the EU and are in digital services..

 

[Coolcats]

I agree. If you are in services with no materials cost and can work from home, staying under the VAT threshold is extremely beneficial.

However, it is not a choice if you want to sell to the EU and are in digital services..

Its all Process Gromett, if its profitable then do it, if not or too much hassle then don't, having spent many a year with Corporate process's much of which do not make sense, it just seems to be the way of the world its not personal it is what it is I guess.

 

[Northernraider]

lets hope we get more buy british, and made in britian from all this

Unfortunately british made equals crap and exensive ...thats why we gave up manufacturing cars etc .

Some may be able to afford twice the price others don't want to.


Still waiting to see all these benefits everyone was promised
But like predicted those on lower incomes are the ones going to suffer.

 

[Tombola]

Unfortunately british made equals crap and exensive ...thats why we gave up manufacturing cars etc .

Dont agree, there are many companies in Britain making quality items. Some more expensive than the same made in other countries and some not. To say all british made gear is crap isnt right at all.

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