This Is The Sort Of Behaviour That Makes Me Hate The Apple Company

[scotjimland]

Yes I did, bought one on ebay for less than a tenner (iPhone 4 so an old 'phone but), son fitted it who can see those tiny screws. Works fine.

said earlier, I did likewise on an old 4s my daughter was using.. but would I risk it with a £500 phone .? don't think so..

 

[Podney]

I don’t hate apple. I hate all computers......no,hate is a rather silly word,I dislike using them and only do so as a means to an end,like being on here.
As to this particular debate,the words “each to their own” come to mind.
Still,at 90 posts,it must be worth it....or is it raining back home. 21degrees in sunny Lagos.

 

[scotjimland]

My use of fanboy in this case is perfectly warranted I thought?

if you say so.. not everyone would agree

 

[airwave]

Well @airwave, there you go then! If the phone had been an iPhone it would easily have stood up to being run over by a steam roller, let alone a few lightweight cars. Ask @scotjimland he will confirm I am sure!

Hmm now that's interesting , cause that was not always the case . As i recall that's how they made their name , oh and of course bending helped .

.or is it raining back home. 21degrees in sunny Lagos.

Yeah that's it rub it in why don't ya . Not yet , but we got 100 percent cloud cover right now , bit of sun earlier though .

 

[hilldweller]

No Brian, the above is what you asked yourself having just bought a Swift

Huh. Just remind me not to buy you a drink next time we meet on a muddy field.

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[dabhand]

I like my gin in a crystal glass, it makes the gin taste better, I simply don’t understand all the idiots who drink gin out of an ordinary glass! Now carry that on for five pages!

 

[tonyidle]

I like my gin in a crystal glass, it makes the gin taste better, I simply don’t understand all the idiots who drink gin out of an ordinary glass! Now carry that on for five pages!

I'll start. I hate the stuff. As far as I'm concerned it tastes like petrol.

 

[ludo]

I like my gin in a crystal glass, it makes the gin taste better, I simply don’t understand all the idiots who drink gin out of an ordinary glass! Now carry that on for five pages!

Yes, but what make of crystal. I always swear by Waterford, the gin tastes much nicer and the crystal shines beautifully. You can save money buying cheap crystal from Eastern Europe but it makes the gin taste like cats pi**.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I like my gin in a crystal glass, it makes the gin taste better, I simply don’t understand all the idiots who drink gin out of an ordinary glass! Now carry that on for five pages!

Same here.... only the finest crystal for my malt. If it is @cruiser ’s glenratspiss then I use a tin mug

 

[dabhand]

Yes, but what make of crystal. I always swear by Waterford, the gin tastes much nicer and the crystal shines beautifully. You can save money buying cheap crystal from Eastern Europe but it makes the gin taste like cats pi**.

Yes Waterford, it keeps the ice colder

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[ludo]

Yes Waterford, it keeps the ice colder

Ah, yes but what ice do you use? I believe Waterford only permit ice from a particular glacier to be used in their crystal. I think there is an ongoing court case about this! You certainly can't use knock off ice from a market stall or from China.

 

[pappajohn]

Why would i spend 500 note's on something , where 100 will do the same thing .

You're well out of touch......
A top of the range android CAN cost twice that and more.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

If BMW were to do the same, only BMW garages could repair BMW's with BMW parts. You would no longer be able to fit Bremco brake parts anymore, nor could you take your BMW to your local garage for service/repairs.

BMW are kind of doing that in a passive aggressive way.

If you buy certain models you get no service book or paperwork of any description. It's all done via the remote key. All the information is stored on that therefore if you take it to a garage that doesn't have the correct reader and software it's impossible to maintain a service history.

How easy do you think BMW make it for non approved garages to get hold of that kit?

 

[airwave]

You're well out of touch......
A top of the range android CAN cost twice that and more.

Oh shoot , really Pop's .

Just goes to show how often i update my phone's ,

 

[tonyidle]

BMW are kind of doing that in a passive aggressive way.

If you buy certain models you get no service book or paperwork of any description. It's all done via the remote key. All the information is stored on that therefore if you take it to a garage that doesn't have the correct reader and software it's impossible to maintain a service history.

How easy do you think BMW make it for non approved garages to get hold of that kit?

I've recently found out Mercedes do the same.

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[Deleted member 29692]

I've recently found out Mercedes do the same.

Everyone will be doing something similar before long.

I don't see the problem with it myself. Why should they have to make it easy for competitors to take work from them?

 

[Chris]

Even Hymer might be at it next.

Like charging £1500 for a poxy headlight unit

 

[tonyidle]

Everyone will be doing something similar before long.

I don't see the problem with it myself. Why should they have to make it easy for competitors to take work from them?

It shuts out the independants. There's already an issue in the motor trade that independants can't access the same diagnostics and vehicle information as the OEM. This is just another nail in the coffin of independant garages. I don't see a solution given the inter-dependance of the vehicle ECUs and the company mainframe but it doesn't bode well for healthy competition or for the customer. In fact the only solution l could envisage working is a regulated separation of production and servicing with access to the factory offered equally to all service providers. And that won't happen.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I've recently found out Mercedes do the same.

.......and Jaguar

 

[Deleted member 29692]

There's already an issue in the motor trade that independants can't access the same diagnostics and vehicle information as the OEM

They can actually. I know someone who sells that sort of stuff. His company licence vehicle information from the various OEMs and make it available as a package to garages.

The problem is that a lot of the independents won't pay for it. They prefer to moan about the unfairness of it all instead of paying for a solution that would allow them to compete

It's not cheap but why should it be.

OEM diagnostic software is also available but on a far more controlled basis which is perfectly understandable considering what it can be used for and again it's far from cheap.

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[Langtoftlad]

It's all a cycle - brands want to protect their profits but then go too far and become anti-competitve which results in laws being made [eg they can't now dismiss warranty claims if vehicles are serviced by independents], but also there is a great risk that if a brand becomes too proprietary it alienates the existing customer base and dissuades prospective new custom.

 

[tonyidle]

They can actually. I know someone who sells that sort of stuff. His company licence vehicle information from the various OEMs and make it available as a package to garages.

The problem is that a lot of the independents won't pay for it. They prefer to moan about the unfairness of it all instead of paying for a solution that would allow them to compete

It's not cheap but why should it be.

OEM diagnostic software is also available but on a far more controlled basis which is perfectly understandable considering what it can be used for and again it's far from cheap.

I didn't know that it was available. The last time l read about it was possibly a couple of years ago or so and at the time it was a major issue. I haven't come across any independants that have it - which might be down to having still never had any work done by the motor trade - ever .

 

[Gromett]

BMW are kind of doing that in a passive aggressive way.

If you buy certain models you get no service book or paperwork of any description. It's all done via the remote key. All the information is stored on that therefore if you take it to a garage that doesn't have the correct reader and software it's impossible to maintain a service history.

How easy do you think BMW make it for non approved garages to get hold of that kit?

That is why we need a right to repair law over here as well....

In the 'old days' You could buy a schematic for any TV, video, stereo etc for a few £'s. The components were available. You could buy a haynes manual for cars. Service manuals were available for white goods for very little money. Now days you can't get them without spending 100's if not 1,000's of £'s.

The problem with shutting out independent repair shops is that the next step is that manufacturers start saying sorry that isn't an economical repair forcing you to buy new again.

Don't believe me? Apple already do this. At the same time as they are trying to shut down independent repair shops, they are refusing to repair some items, or pricing the repairs such that it makes more sense to buy a new one.

Check this one out.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

That is why we need a right to repair law over here as well....

In the 'old days' You could buy a schematic for any TV, video, stereo etc for a few £'s. The components were available. You could buy a haynes manual for cars. Service manuals were available for white goods for very little money. Now days you can't get them without spending 100's if not 1,000's of £

I don’t accept any law is needed. There’s nothing to stop anyone getting any product repaired by anyone they like. There’s also nothing that says that the OEM has to provide support to unauthorised repairers or make things easy for them which is exactly how it should be.

If there was such a law the next step would be people demanding that OEMs still honour warranties even after some untrained bodge artist has had a go at a repair and made things worse.


The simple truth is that most products, from cars to phones have become far more complicated than they were even 10 years ago and this makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for repairs to be carried out properly by anyone without specific training.

Personally if I spend a significant wedge on something I don’t want anyone that hasn’t had specific product training from the manufacturer anywhere near it.

Also many items, especially cheaper white goods, are now designed to be throwaway and as such it’s not economically viable for them to be repaired by anyone even on a DIY basis. That’s product design 101.

Don't believe me? Apple already do this. At the same time as they are trying to shut down independent repair shops, they are refusing to repair some items, or pricing the repairs such that it makes more sense to buy a new one.

Check this one out

You’ll have to forgive me if I prefer to rely on my personal experience of Apple customer service rather than YouTube videos.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

That is why we need a right to repair law over here as well....

In the 'old days' You could buy a schematic for any TV, video, stereo etc for a few £'s. The components were available. You could buy a haynes manual for cars. Service manuals were available for white goods for very little money. Now days you can't get them without spending 100's if not 1,000's of £'s.

The problem with shutting out independent repair shops is that the next step is that manufacturers start saying sorry that isn't an economical repair forcing you to buy new again.

Don't believe me? Apple already do this. At the same time as they are trying to shut down independent repair shops, they are refusing to repair some items, or pricing the repairs such that it makes more sense to buy a new one.

Check this one out.

I only give him 7/10 for the Daily Mail “sad face” photo, though

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[Gromett]

I don’t accept any law is needed. There’s nothing to stop anyone getting any product repaired by anyone they like. There’s also nothing that says that the OEM has to provide support to unauthorised repairers or make things easy for them which is exactly how it should be.

If there was such a law the next step would be people demanding that OEMs still honour warranties even after some untrained bodge artist has had a go at a repair and made things worse.


The simple truth is that most products, from cars to phones have become far more complicated than they were even 10 years ago and this makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for repairs to be carried out properly by anyone without specific training.

Personally if I spend a significant wedge on something I don’t want anyone that hasn’t had specific product training from the manufacturer anywhere near it.

Also many items, especially cheaper white goods, are now designed to be throwaway and as such it’s not economically viable for them to be repaired by anyone even on a DIY basis. That’s product design 101.

You’ll have to forgive me if I prefer to rely on my personal experience of Apple customer service rather than YouTube videos.

I am sorry but I disagree. We need a right to repair law that states the manufacturer has to
a) provide service manuals for a reasonable price.
b) provide diagnostic tools and software at a reasonable price irrespective of who is asking (to prevent anti competitive blocking).
c) Supply any and all parts needed to repair a product they supplied for a minimum period of time after the item has finished production.

Most products from cars to phones are not so complicated that they cannot be repaired. Possibly the skill levels required are higher than they used to be. But my electronics knowledge is still good enough to repair an iMac or iPhone if I have access to the schematics and spares. The technology used in these devices is NOT new. It is standard electronic parts using standard multi layer pcb's. I had a small TV/Video services round in the early 90's when surface mount tech first came out. The tools back then to repair these were way too expensive and we moved onto other things. However those tools are now commodity items so I would have no issues going back to that business.

White goods are still repairable. I don't know why you think they are not economically viable to repair? The only exception to this would be fridges/freezers are I don't know the current laws/rules on re-pressurising them. But motors and control boards are all replaceable/repairable by competent DIY 'ers...

All that is beside the point though. My point is that when you stop third party repairs which is effectively what is happening by the back door. You end up with a situation where the manufacturer decides when your product has reached end of life. They are going to be less and less likely to repair if they can sell new and avoid supporting older products. This is basic business sense.

We are already a fair way down this slippery slope...

PS: I have replaced tablet screens, touch sensors. Fixed a laptop PSU that was too expensive to replace. I have saved 100's of TV's and VCR's from being scrapped early (years ago).
My electronics knowledge may be rusty but I still have the capabilities to repair stuff with some work. People with more recent training would have no issues repairing any electronic device on the market today. Louis Rossman who I linked a video to up above, is an uneducated and untrained guy who regularly fixes Apple devices that the authorised repair centres can't and won't. He is self taught and now does training videos. Watch a couple of his live repairs to see how easy it is with a bit of electronics knowledge. I watch his repairs for entertainment....

 

[JJ]

I don't give a monkey's flying break of wind how good or bad the Apple products are...

I posted an article showing why I HATE the company.

I HATE THE COMPANY because of it's loathsome policies, attitude and behaviour.

(And I am proud to have Mr SMB as a mate even if he has taken up with bloody RED.)



JJ

 

[tonyidle]

I am sorry but I disagree. We need a right to repair law that states the manufacturer has to
a) provide service manuals for a reasonable price.
b) provide diagnostic tools and software at a reasonable price irrespective of who is asking (to prevent anti competitive blocking).
c) Supply any and all parts needed to repair a product they supplied for a minimum period of time after the item has finished production.

Most products from cars to phones are not so complicated that they cannot be repaired. Possibly the skill levels required are higher than they used to be. But my electronics knowledge is still good enough to repair an iMac or iPhone if I have access to the schematics and spares. The technology used in these devices is NOT new. It is standard electronic parts using standard multi layer pcb's. I had a small TV/Video services round in the early 90's when surface mount tech first came out. The tools back then to repair these were way too expensive and we moved onto other things. However those tools are now commodity items so I would have no issues going back to that business.

White goods are still repairable. I don't know why you think they are not economically viable to repair? The only exception to this would be fridges/freezers are I don't know the current laws/rules on re-pressurising them. But motors and control boards are all replaceable/repairable by competent DIY 'ers...

All that is beside the point though. My point is that when you stop third party repairs which is effectively what is happening by the back door. You end up with a situation where the manufacturer decides when your product has reached end of life. They are going to be less and less likely to repair if they can sell new and avoid supporting older products. This is basic business sense.

We are already a fair way down this slippery slope...

PS: I have replaced tablet screens, touch sensors. Fixed a laptop PSU that was too expensive to replace. I have saved 100's of TV's and VCR's from being scrapped early (years ago).
My electronics knowledge may be rusty but I still have the capabilities to repair stuff with some work. People with more recent training would have no issues repairing any electronic device on the market today. Louis Rossman who I linked a video to up above, is an uneducated and untrained guy who regularly fixes Apple devices that the authorised repair centres can't and won't. He is self taught and now does training videos. Watch a couple of his live repairs to see how easy it is with a bit of electronics knowledge. I watch his repairs for entertainment....

I couldn't agree more. The only loser is the customer. It drives me insane that l struggle to find info on even the simplest of things - my mh for example. I look at the location of the charger/distribution device. Adjacent to it is a wiring loom. I use the term loosely because it is a bundle of wires many of which are an attempt to lose excess length. Within this bundle are two fuses and what appears to be a PTC thermistor used as a temperature sensor. I have no idea what any of these does. I can find out with a lot of common sense and wire tracing but why should l have to. And the mh is a very simple example of how manufacturers feel able to treat their customers. In an age when extending the service life of any appliance or device should be looked upon as a virtue why are manufacturers allowed to get away with restricting repair information?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

White goods are still repairable. I don't know why you think they are not economically viable to repair?

Something like this:

Broken Link Removed

If the heating element fails technically it’s repairable.

You would need to buy the element and then spend time fixing it. Even if you do it as a DIY job and you value your time at minimum wage do you really think you can do it for less than the cost of just buying a new one?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I am sorry but I disagree. We need a right to repair law that states the manufacturer has to
a) provide service manuals for a reasonable price.
b) provide diagnostic tools and software at a reasonable price irrespective of who is asking (to prevent anti competitive blocking).
c) Supply any and all parts needed to repair a product they supplied for a minimum period of time after the item has finished production

I’m sure manufacturers would argue that they already do a) and b) with the proviso that b) isn’t available to every random person that asks, which, as I posted before, I think is a good thing from a security point of view.

One avenue by which this happens is detailed in my previous post.

Who gets to decide what a “reasonable price” is? Surely you arent suggesting some sort of government price controls on private businesses? You know as well as I do what a slippery slope that would be.

I’m sure c) happens in one form or another already as well. There’s definitely a requirement of some description to support a product for a minimum period after production ceases.

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