This is an engine

[PeteH]

Sorry, but that is not correct. 95% of the non coastal merchant vessels run on 2 strokes. Mostly MAN B&W or (ex)Sulzer Winterthur - now Wartsila. Smaller ships and ships where space is a premium do run 4 strokes and some cruise ships run gas turbines. LNG is becoming a popular fuel but has storage issues and low energy density

I have just retired from a job heavily involved in consultancy for fuels, fuel testing , exhaust emission abatement etc for major shipowners - the Very Low Sulphur fuel oil meets and exceeds the IMO 2020 fuel specifications for pollution. Google the Viswa Group......... interesting company

Interesting to hear. I have been out of the Loop for many years now. In fact I haven't been to an I-Mar-E lecture since? 2000? I think. I`m only just getting some feedback via my Grandson, who has just qualified as a Junior. He`s currently in Curaso on an Old Converted Ferry, doing Cable work. When I gave up back in 1980/1 there was even then talk then the phasing out of "Heavy" Fuels. Low Sulfur fuel would be non cost effective.? So some thing must have changed?.

BTW. I notice that Viswa are headquartered in Houston. ?

 

[scally]

Was designed and originally built in Colchester by Davey Paxman who ever eventually bought out by GEC,who I think owned Napier

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Interesting to hear. I have been out of the Loop for many years now. In fact I haven't been to an I-Mar-E lecture since? 2000? I think. I`m only just getting some feedback via my Grandson, who has just qualified as a Junior. He`s currently in Curaso on an Old Converted Ferry, doing Cable work. When I gave up back in 1980/1 there was even then talk then the phasing out of "Heavy" Fuels. Low Sulfur fuel would be non cost effective.? So some thing must have changed?.

BTW. I notice that Viswa are headquartered in Houston. ?

Yep. VLSFO is a bit of a nightmare, causing piston ring damage and other issues. I retired a few years ago but Dr Vis (who was a direct competitor when I ran SGS marine services) offered me a job which was interesting. I did a year with them. I love ships and shipping

 

[Macca1954]

Going back to the Napier Celtic Y engine done some work on them in the RN but only maintenance stuff as they were too delicate for us to play with. Remember the piston within a piston idea so basically a seize up would not mean a stop seen a few smashed pistons. impressive

 

[Tincataylor]

yes, the idea was based on a Junckers Jumo engine which was a flat opposed piston type. Of course another famous opposed piston engine was the good (maybe) old Doxford


Yes - the "ton" class but also the more recent Hunt class but it looks as if they may have been re-engined subsequently with Cat engines.

Quote
Following the sale of Bicester and Berkeley to the Greek Navy, the sale of Cottesmore and Dulverton to the Lithuanian Navy and the decommissioning of Brecon, a contract to re-engine the remaining eight vessels was signed by BAE Systems in 2008, whereby the existing 30-year old Napier Deltic 9-59K power units were replaced by Caterpillar CAT C32 engines, together with new gearboxes, bow thrusters, propellers and control systems, in a six year refurbishment programme that was completed in 2018.
Unquote

Apparently they tried a development Napier deltic in an old E Boat - the engine was half the size and a firth of the weight compared with the diesel engine it replaced for the same power output.


I remember when I was a kid, they had a deltic on display in the science Museum

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[Tincataylor]

yes, the idea was based on a Junckers Jumo engine which was a flat opposed piston type. Of course another famous opposed piston engine was the good (maybe) old Doxford

Bit of a long shot but are there any other old "Doxford Men" on here who have fond (?) memories of these truly awesome beasts?

Mr Tinca

 

[PeteH]

Bit of a long shot but are there any other old "Doxford Men" on here who have fond (?) memories of these truly awesome beasts?

Mr Tinca

I distinctly remember having to draw the (in)famous "mechanical" Injector, for the BOT examination!. My first experience of said engines was a 1952 Build 4 Cylinder. With all the Auxiliaries run off the Back of the Engine, and Burning "Heavy" Fuel. One rapidly became "Expert" at refurbishing these very heavy injectors, which in itself was something of an "Art Form", 2 Per cylinder they would burn the nozzle housing if not set correctly. That and clambering in the crankcase, to replace the "elbow" Joint packing(s) for the piston water cooling whilst rolling merrily beam on in a seaway, because the "Purifiers" (De Laval) could no longer remove it fast enough, and the Distiller(s) could not keep up with demand for cooling water. Ahhh? Happy? days.

I am given to understand that one still exists (in Pieces) at the Anson Engine Museum, Not far from Chester? Allegedly used to be at the Marine College in South Shields?.

 

[Spriddler]

I love ships and shipping

Me too. After I retired I had a cottage on The Lizard and sailed at Falmouth. I charter skippered and taught the RYA courses just for fun, on my own boat. I crewed in races for a guy who asked me to 'take' him and his wife to France in his 30 footer because she said she wouldn't go without someone who knew what they were doing. (No pressure then). During the crossing we discussed our careers etc (much time to kill at 7 knots with nothing to see) and it transpired that he was a senior guy at Falmouth shipyard. He asked me to take a 3 month contract to introduce new work practices. As a kid on family hols I used to look for ages and wonder at the ships tied up and in dry dock and all the noisy work going on so I jumped at the chance. Best job I've ever had; wandering all around and inside the ships and yarning with the many 4th, 5th and 6th generation engineers, blacksmiths, sailmakers, electricians etc. etc. and dumbstruck by the huge lathes, milling machines, drill presses and hydraulic socket sets in the workshops.
Getting back on topic to 'Big engines' I'm an avid engineer but I was fascinated to see that the ships carried spare piston crowns, complete with rings so that just the piston top could be unbolted and a new one bolted on. Brilliant. And it was the first time I'd stepped through a door into a crankcase.
For a few weeks a 17th century naval film ('Master and Commander' I think) was filmed there and the shipyard swarmed with sailors in historic costumes and repro sailing ships fought a battle in Falmouth Bay with cannon fire and boarding parties which was utterly enthralling. The contract went on for 18 months until I needed to return to Sussex for various family reasons.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Getting back on topic to 'Big engines' I'm an avid engineer but I was fascinated to see that the ships carried spare piston crowns, complete with rings so that just the piston top could be unbolted and a new one bolted on. Brilliant. And it was the first time I'd stepped through a door into a crankcase.

Yes, nothing quite like being in a crankcase or standing on top of a piston..... it is surreal

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I am given to understand that one still exists (in Pieces) at the Anson Engine Museum, Not far from Chester? Allegedly used to be at the Marine College in South Shields?.

I remember the one at Shields college, but that was 40 years ago

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[PeteH]

I thought I was right? :- http://www.enginemuseum.org/doxford.html.

 

[jockaneezer]

I seem to remember a three cylinder steam engine in the Science Museum, just off Westgate Road in Newcastle that, due to a bolt together crank, you could run as a single, a twin, a triple and as an expansion engine. It was used for training purposes. They also have Turbinia there, Parson's first steam turbine vessel that shocked the old Admiralty diehards at the Spithead Review in 1897.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Please please tell me they use Castrol R in them ?

 

[PeteH]

Yes, nothing quite like being in a crankcase or standing on top of a piston..... it is surreal

How to Calibrate the bore of a Marine diesel?. Stand on the Piston. and have the"Turning" gear control to hand. Start at the lowest point an using a Micrometer, take measurements at various points thawartship and fore and aft. Turn the engine and continue to take maeasure to the highest point. One time the person marking the dimensions on the sheet. Was Mrs Pete!. she and the 2 boys where away with me so she got roped in!.

 

[ambulancekidd]

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[Dan and Jan]

Opposed piston engines were used in a few British armoured vehicles introduced in the 60s. The L60 engine used in the Chieftain tank was notoriously unreliable. The problem was the cylinder liners and getting them to stay in place. There is a story, which may or may not be true, that the Germans had an engine with opposed pistons in WW2 made by Heinkel or someone like that. They went over to Germany to find someone who had worked on the project and asked them how they solved the problem with the liners. The answer, apparently, was "We didn't."

Did a few years on Chieftain. L60s If I had a £ for every lift, as they say.

 

[Tincataylor]

PeteH and Dux have brought back long forgotten memories for me. So as not to piggy back on the OP I will start a Doxford thread and see if there are others on here who "have been inside the crankcase" of the mighty beast.

Mr |Tinca

 

[Nomadian]

I was at fleet maintainence at HMS Cochran in the early 80’s working on the ‘Ton’ class sweepers. We used to do complete engine changes on the deltics in 24hours, old one out, new one in. The engines were leased and used to go back to the main factory for refurbishment if they had a serious fault.

 

[Ingwe]

Can I just say that, as a non- engineer, never a train spotter and mechanically ignorant, how interesting I've found this thread!
As a kid growing up in South Africa, the nearest sea was 500 miles away at Durban and I loved ships, dockyards and everything to do with shipping.
Also, in my school days and also young adulthood, all trains were steam driven and I was fascinated by the huge pistons etc visible on the mighty black engines.
Now, as an old fart, I live in York across the river from the Railway Museum and have visited several times. Seeing thes mechanical behemoths in all their glory is awe inspiring.
I still love docks and ships and enjoyed a lovely week, a couple of years ago at Migennes, at a boatyard, where a friend was having a tjalk being made sea-worthy for crossing from Le Havre to Dublin.
It is great how many members of this forum, in their past lives, had such interesting careers and interests and inform people like me. Thanks you all for sharing your knowledge??

 

[Spriddler]

I was at fleet maintainence at HMS Cochran in the early 80’s working on the ‘Ton’ class sweepers. We used to do complete engine changes on the deltics in 24hours, old one out, new one in.

At Falmouth shipyard we maintained and repaired every type from container ships, car carriers, naval RFA's, cross channel ferries to tugs and dredgers. If a large vessel needed the engine replaced a hole would be cut in the side of the hull through which to remove and replace the engine.

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[Nomadian]

On the sweepers the top super structure above the engine room was just bolted down, where the funnel sits, so while one team was in the engine room disconnecting all the associated services to the engine another team was doing the same to the superstructure, fan trunkings, firemain pipes, electric cable runs etc. A crane would then lift it clear and then lift the engine out. If a ship came in on a Wednesday there would be loads of volunteers as soon as the job was done you got 24 hours leave so you get away weekenders on a Thurs instead of Friday ?

 

[The Coops]

The Anson Museum is in Poynton near Manchester Airport well worth a visit for oily hand types when open, like everything else its closed at the moment

 

[poppycamper]

On the sweepers the top super structure above the engine room was just bolted down, where the funnel sits, so while one team was in the engine room disconnecting all the associated services to the engine another team was doing the same to the superstructure, fan trunkings, firemain pipes, electric cable runs etc. A crane would then lift it clear and then lift the engine out. If a ship came in on a Wednesday there would be loads of volunteers as soon as the job was done you got 24 hours leave so you get away weekenders on a Thurs instead of Friday ?View attachment 389798

Indeed..I remember having to change an engine on Middleton while it was alongside in Dover during some exercise or other. Rather challenging because obviously ferries did not stop for us so there we were with a very large main engine hanging from a crane on the dock side and the boat was following the wake of each and every ferry up and down and there I was lying next to bed plate trying to aligning engine up. Still to this day don't know how I still have all my fingers.

 

[Dorset Diver]

Westland Helicopters used to have a 6 wheel Range rover fire truck, if I remember correctly on the Airfield at Yeovil?.

Unfortunately most of the High Power Marine engines produced now are multi-cylinder medium and high speed 4 stroke. 2 strokes struggle with current "emissions" requirements.

They did indeed. Saved my life and that of the pilot when we came in with a Gazelle on fire.

 

[tonyidle]

Sorry, but that is not correct. 95% of the non coastal merchant vessels run on 2 strokes. Mostly MAN B&W or (ex)Sulzer Winterthur - now Wartsila. Smaller ships and ships where space is a premium do run 4 strokes and some cruise ships run gas turbines. LNG is becoming a popular fuel but has storage issues and low energy density

I have just retired from a job heavily involved in consultancy for fuels, fuel testing , exhaust emission abatement etc for major shipowners - the Very Low Sulphur fuel oil meets and exceeds the IMO 2020 fuel specifications for pollution. Google the Viswa Group......... interesting company

Two stroke Diesels bear no operational resemblance to petrol engines as far as emissions are concerned. Scavenging is by blower so other than firing twice as often as an equivalent four stroke there need be no impact on emissions.

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[DuxDeluxe]

Two stroke Diesels bear no operational resemblance to petrol engines as far as emissions are concerned. Scavenging is by blower so other than firing twice as often as an equivalent four stroke there need be no impact on emissions.

A whole different ball game as you say. I think that what PeteH alluded to was the fact that medium and high speed diesels burn mostly better quality distillate fuel as opposed to the residual fuels which until Jan 1st of this year could contain up to 3.5% sulphur. Now it is 0.5% max. Nox emissions are dealt with by type approval at the building stage