Theft Update from Comfort Insurance,scary stuff!

[peterc10]

Hi the Thatcham Category Five has driver identification and the vehicle can be immobilised by the monitoring centre at the request of the Police. The new VTS systems are much cheaper to install as the remote immobilisation function (rarely used by the Police) is an option.

In essence speed is everything and so long as the driver ID tags are used correctly it will alert the control centre immediately that the vehicle has been started with a set of "cloned" keys or, in the case of a keyless entry "relay theft" allowing the Police to be involved as the crime is taking place.

So those with Cat Five systems still have the better system, although the VTS "mirrors" the driver ID function

@eddievanbitz Eddie, am I right in thinking that those with your (older) non-starter system already have remote immobilisation that we, rather than the the police, can use?

 

[eddie]

@eddievanbitz Eddie, am I right in thinking that those with your (older) non-starter system already have remote immobilisation that we, rather than the the police, can use?

Yes, with "Non Starter" it is a user controlled (Smart Phone App) immobilization system that tracks, rather than a tracking system that reports to a third party control room.

 

[pagey]

What Happened to the old tried and tested Hidden switch? to cut off the fuel pump Mine was disguised as a radio changover switch.? But even just hidden under the dash costs the perp; extra time at the very least doesent have to even BE a switch, Just a 10A fuse, take it out and fit a "blown" fuse when stored.

if anybody knows where i can interupt the power to the pump or the starter motor please pm me my van is a 2017 ducato as avatar

 

[Geo]

Hi the Thatcham Category Five has driver identification and the vehicle can be immobilised by the monitoring centre at the request of the Police. The new VTS systems are much cheaper to install as the remote immobilisation function (rarely used by the Police) is an option.

In essence speed is everything and so long as the driver ID tags are used correctly it will alert the control centre immediately that the vehicle has been started with a set of "cloned" keys or, in the case of a keyless entry "relay theft" allowing the Police to be involved as the crime is taking place.

So those with Cat Five systems still have the better system, although the VTS "mirrors" the driver ID function

Hi the Thatcham Category Five has driver identification and the vehicle can be immobilised by the monitoring centre at the request of the Police. The new VTS systems are much cheaper to install as the remote immobilisation function (rarely used by the Police) is an option.

In essence speed is everything and so long as the driver ID tags are used correctly it will alert the control centre immediately that the vehicle has been started with a set of "cloned" keys or, in the case of a keyless entry "relay theft" allowing the Police to be involved as the crime is taking place.

So those with Cat Five systems still have the better system, although the VTS "mirrors" the driver ID function

Or the Finance company as seen on a recent Judge Judy a late payment resulted in a truck being immobilised by the Lender
untill payments were made or as in this case it could be towed
Tell me if this system is available why do the Police risk life and limb chasing stolen cars. why not just switch em off when spotted

 

[eddie]

Because such a small percentage of vehicles have the technology fitted, it is not recorded by DVLA and because the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) have made a edict that vehicles can only use stopped once they are stopped remotely!!

I know I am a dinosaur, but again my take on a twat driving like an idiot, in a stolen vehicle risking innocent people has no rights whatsoever, so a marksman would be a better quick end to a car chase.

This would only have to happen a few times, and the thieves would start to get the message.

Instead of the Police Unions moaning that the general public don't help when they are being beaten up, they should be moaning that the Police should be armed! A couple of scumbags on mopeds get into a tussle with a Copper and the Copper's mate shoots one dead!

Instant justice

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[Deneb]

And because often the police don't know the identity of the stolen car they're chasing until it has been stopped, because it's more often than not on false plates. They may have had other intelligence or indications that the car is not all as it should be which leads them to suspect it is stolen, but until it has been stopped they can't be sure. One good indication that all is not as it seems is when the car makes off at high speed; often that happens before the police try and stop it, the driver goes into must get away mode just because there's a police car behind him, or he sees one turning round to come his way.

The dilemma then is do you pursue it or not. Police drivers quite often abandon pursuits these days because of the danger. That never makes the headlines. And often the stolen vehicles involved in serious or fatal crashes aren't actually being pursued at the time. The driver races off because he's twigged a police car nearby as above, and comes to grief before the police have even got behind him.

Glad I'm not involved any more, because it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and if something goes wrong the police officer is treated as guilty until proven innocent, sometimes even prosecuted where the circumstances wouldn't ordinarily meet the threshold test, because justice needs to be seen to be done in the public domain.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Hi the Thatcham Category Five has driver identification and the vehicle can be immobilised by the monitoring centre at the request of the Police. The new VTS systems are much cheaper to install as the remote immobilisation function (rarely used by the Police) is an option.

In essence speed is everything and so long as the driver ID tags are used correctly it will alert the control centre immediately that the vehicle has been started with a set of "cloned" keys or, in the case of a keyless entry "relay theft" allowing the Police to be involved as the crime is taking place.

So those with Cat Five systems still have the better system, although the VTS "mirrors" the driver ID function

Thanks Eddie. I was impressed with Scorpion’s speed when I got a low battery message from them for the driver key and put it on charge in the van before driving off. I got a phone call before I got to the gate of the storage as the key doesn’t work when charging. I took it off charge as they spoke and they confirmed it worked - recharged it on arrival. I do like the idea of the remote disablement. Presumably if nicked and parked up they can simply temporarily “kill it” whilst waiting for recovery by the owner. Cheers

 

[nicholsong]

Question for Eddie please, or anyone else with knowledge.

Do any of the systems you sell or know of work on the Continent and in which countries.

Thanks in advance.

Geoff

 

[eddie]

Question for Eddie please, or anyone else with knowledge.

Do any of the systems you sell or know of work on the Continent and in which countries.

Thanks in advance.

Geoff

Where ever there is a decent GSM signal.

 

[wiljoy]

Must upgrade the baseball bat but carry the ball to make it legal.
Fords have always been a good deal for thieves.

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[nicholsong]

Where ever there is a decent GSM signal.

But then I suppose the report goes to a UK monitoring control room and not to the local police, for those systems that work like that. So then what happens?

Geoff

 

[eddie]

But then I suppose the report goes to a UK monitoring control room and not to the local police, for those systems that work like that. So then what happens?

Geoff

The Non Starter is controlled by the owners GSM Smart Phone so you immobilise the motorhome using the App and phone plod

 

[Aly1]

@eddievanbitz thanks for your earlier reply. I am getting a Murvi Pimento fitted with a Thatcham cat 1 alarm and Scorpion cat 6 tracker.
I have a disklok for the steering wheel. I was looking at changing all the locks but I’m sure someone could get through the window as fast as getting past a door lock!
Looking at the map I could have called in at yours to get sorted!!

 

[nicholsong]

The Non Starter is controlled by the owners GSM Smart Phone so you immobilise the motorhome using the App and phone plod

Eddie

Yes I appreciate that with the Non Starter, as said above.

But what about the Thatcham 5 and 6 systems if on the Continent?

Sorry for so many questions but our MH is only in UK rarely. Other MHomers may also spend a significant time out of UK

Geoff

 

[Buster30]

Apparently the Police can’t use the immobilise function unless the vehicle is stationary and the keys (if used) are not in the ignition, hence hardly ever utilised by them

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[Richard n Ann]

i know i keep saying about it, fitting a kill switch to interrupt the diesel pump relay or ecu supply prevents drive away thefts.

cutting the signal wire to the obd2 port some distance from the port and splicing in a micro fuse holder, which you can conceal elsewhere allows use of the port only when authorised (by fitting the fuse)

both very cheap and effective for theft prevention

Genius an in-line spade fuse holder with a blown fuse in it
How do I identify the obd2 signal wire on 2014 peugeot boxer? X250

 

[Allanm]

Eddie

Yes I appreciate that with the Non Starter, as said above.

But what about the Thatcham 5 and 6 systems if on the Continent?

Sorry for so many questions but our MH is only in UK rarely. Other MHomers may also spend a significant time out of UK

Geoff

I’d be interested to see the statistics for vehicle and motorhome thefts in mainland Europe, especially in France. ( I may try and find out later, unless somebody has already done so ) we bought our new French reg Bürstner from a dealer close by. They don’t know anything about tracker systems or alarms. There doesn’t appear to be a requirement by French insurance companies to fit any sort of security other than oem fitments either.



Edit, just checked statistics, France has over 3 times the amount of vehicle thefts than the UK!

 

[Deneb]

Edit, just checked statistics, France has over 3 times the amount of vehicle thefts than the UK!

You beat me to it. Although I've been retired a little while now, mainland Europe as a whole had consistently higher vehicle theft statistics than the UK. No small part of that is related to the influence which Thatcham have within the industry in the UK, not just with insurers, but also the vehicle manufacturers. They actively seek input from specialist police examiners with knowledge of methods and trends in vehicle crime, and attempt to design solutions into requirements for new vehicle security, which is why vehicles built for the UK market all have various differences to identical models sold elsewhere.

With no similar body having similar influence anywhere in Europe to my knowledge, there is probably little agreement across their insurance industry to have a reasonably consistent approach to alarm or tracking solutions.

 

[gus-lopez]

The Non Starter is controlled by the owners GSM Smart Phone so you immobilise the motorhome using the App and phone plod

I assume it can be modified to 'instant shutdown' regardless of if the vehicle is on the move?

Apparently the Police can’t use the immobilise function unless the vehicle is stationary and the keys (if used) are not in the ignition, hence hardly ever utilised by them

Defeats the whole object.
I'd want the additional facility of explosive under the drivers seat that can be activated by mobile to detonate & hopefully eliminate at least one of the scum.

 

[Norfolk Nomad]

If the thieves had one of these https://www.alldeal.co.uk/gsm-cdma-...MIj-HPlc3s3gIVTbTtCh0b6Q38EAQYBSABEgLmDPD_BwE Would it block the signal.

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[Clarky]

If the thieves had one of these https://www.alldeal.co.uk/gsm-cdma-...MIj-HPlc3s3gIVTbTtCh0b6Q38EAQYBSABEgLmDPD_BwE Would it block the signal.

Is there any good reason why these are legal to use and own in the UK?
I can understand something similar, mains operated, being used in conference/meeting rooms but why would anyone need to use one in a vehicle.?
Only one reason that I can think of.

Richard.

 

[Deneb]

Is there any good reason why these are legal to use and own in the UK?
I can understand something similar, mains operated, being used in conference/meeting rooms but why would anyone need to use one in a vehicle.?
Only one reason that I can think of.

Richard.

They're not legal to use despite what the advertiser says, but if he told you the truth he probably wouldn't sell as many.

I have no idea how efficient or otherwise they might be at blocking tracker signals, but I have found several inside recovered stolen vehicles over the years, and when I surreptitiously tested one in our fairly large open plan office without telling anyone, it completely disabled everyone's mobile phones.

Like you, I can only think of one reason why thieves use them in stolen vehicles though! I can only say that the vehicles they were found in weren't recovered due to trackers.

 

[Norfolk Nomad]

I don't think a thief would worry too much about them being illegal to use, they need to make them illegal to sell.

 

[Pausim]

Since we can’t stop the thieves getting hold of jammers what I would like is a jammer detector that sets off my alarm as soon as someone uses a jammer in range of my moho. I know jammer detectors are available but I can’t find anything that would link to an existing Cat1 alarm. I am assuming the thieves would want to jam the radio sensors on the doors and garage before trying to get in and would hope that if their jammer triggers the alarm siren they might change their minds. Has anyone come across any devices like this?

 

[Deneb]

Strikeback and Growler have jamming detection with the non-starter telematics (part of the Metatrak Shield system).
My house alarm has jamming detection on the wireless network (Texecom Ricochet)

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[gus-lopez]

Since we can’t stop the thieves getting hold of jammers what I would like is a jammer detector that sets off my alarm as soon as someone uses a jammer in range of my moho. I know jammer detectors are available but I can’t find anything that would link to an existing Cat1 alarm. I am assuming the thieves would want to jam the radio sensors on the doors and garage before trying to get in and would hope that if their jammer triggers the alarm siren they might change their minds. Has anyone come across any devices like this?

There is a 'jammer detector' on google play for mobiles. just seen it ,no idea whether it works.

 

[gus-lopez]

There is another app you can download that allows you to scan & detect the 'jammer' using RF detection if you are alerted to a 'jamming ' attempt

 

[PeteH]

Is there any good reason why these are legal to use and own in the UK?
I can understand something similar, mains operated, being used in conference/meeting rooms but why would anyone need to use one in a vehicle.?
Only one reason that I can think of.

Richard.

Noted:- 1) Limmasol is in the EU?. So banning would be therefore a restraint of trade under current rules!. 2) Prosecuting would be costly and difficult. 3) Not one (as yet) of the 65 purchasers has recorded a review (wonder why?)

Had a look at the "Jammer detector" App`s. They seem to be a bit hit and miss, some are not jam detectors but signal strength meters. When you look at the reveiws, most indicate they don`t really work properly.

 

[Pausim]

Strikeback and Growler have jamming detection with the non-starter telematics (part of the Metatrak Shield system).
My house alarm has jamming detection on the wireless network (Texecom Ricochet)

Had a look at Strikeback and Growler but could not find anything about built in jammer detection. There was reference to the remotes being shielded from cloning, which is good but not what I was hoping for. Can you point me at the details you are referring to please.

 

[eddie]

Had a look at Strikeback and Growler but could not find anything about built in jammer detection. There was reference to the remotes being shielded from cloning, which is good but not what I was hoping for. Can you point me at the details you are referring to please.

I think your referring to jamming for battery operated door and window switches?

Because they are vastly inferior to wired normally closed, wired switches, we don’t use them so don’t need protection built in.

I’ll let you google how easy it is to defeat them.

As you say our remote controls can’t be cloned

As for devices that ‘jam’ tracking devices, in the real world they at best confuse a weak signal, but are overwhelmed when the vehicles in or near a good signal area.

Best way to describe it is the difference of trying to load Motorhome Fun on you phone when you have a good signal, instantaneous! opposed to when the signal is weak, when it takes forever and is tedious.

If our Non Starter or Shadow VTS system ( both based on Metatraks technology) sense a signal Jammer is being used, it will send a message to the owner(s) to make them aware and hopefully a bit more dilligent

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