eddie
LIFE MEMBER
The Leisure Battery Industry
- Thread starter PhilandMena
- Start date
funflair
LIFE MEMBER
I believe that basically it comes down to the design of the lead plates, a starter battery needs lots of surface area so lots of plates to give a big jump of power, a leisure battery delivery much lower peak power over a longer duration so needs thick plates and less surface area, a good battery is heavy (excluding Lithium) our 80ah Gel's are 28kg each.
Martin
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
Which one? there are several
In many instances, none!
In simple terms; weight.
A starter battery needs to be able to provide a high current drain over a short period with recharging occurring immediately. A leisure battery is (usually) required to provide a much lower current but over an extended period and with charging both likely to be delayed and charged at a lower current. Inverter users though tend to have more onerous discharge/charge regimes.
It‘s all to do with the size/weight of the plates inside the battery but that’s about as much as I can tell you.
Ian
So really its a con. Make the battery heavier with no substantial difference in performance, change the label and away you go.
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OP
OP
There is a bit more to it than that IMO. A Leisure Battery is generally required to give a lower and longer discharge compared to a starter battery and it's life is dependant on the number of times it can be safely discharged and then fully charged up again.(usually no more than 50% of its total capacity (for a lead acid battery)) and as a result when being sold this performance criteria is key when choosing a battery. So a battery advertised at 350 cycles at 50 % Depth of Discharge (D.O.D) is clearly going to last longer than a battery rated at 200 Cycles @50% D.O.D when used under the same conditions. It would appear that quite a few leisure batteries are being mislabelled with respect to there performance and in effect conning potential customers. The evidence to support this outrageous claim is in post number #30.
PeteH
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This is the first time I have had a "Gel" setup. (it was fitted when we purchased). So I have yet to see IF they last as long as Claimed. Before all I have ever had are L-A`s. With the R-V`s I took the lazy route and because I had the room and Payload, I Simply added more Batteries (6 total, nom 660ah, on the last R-V) with a 40A "smart" charger a 180A alternator and 400W of Solar, driving a 300W Inverter. We survived often a full week, Only using the Geny for short periods to run the microwave, as required by "chef". The L-A`s where bottom of range/cheap from several sources, and I regularly checked them with a Hydrometer. I think I replaced 2 over the years both with one "dead" cell.
I have to say I am fairly impressed with the performance so far of the current setup, I survived without EHU for almost a week with frugal use of equipment, When SWMBO was hospitalised and the most convenient site had no EHU. And as it was Mostly Sunny, so the solars, 2x100, gleaned a lot of input. But by time I went on EHU they where down to 12v on the Monitor.
I have 2 batteries in the garage at home currently, both are permanently wired to small solar panels on the garage wall, It keeps them sorted, the one for my Classic (under refurb) has been there nearly 2 years now. but it shows OK when the acid is tested.
I dont expect miracles with "house" batteries, From long experience they get too much abuse, so sometimes I think it is btter to buy cheap(ish) and be prepared to swap more regularly.
I have to say I am fairly impressed with the performance so far of the current setup, I survived without EHU for almost a week with frugal use of equipment, When SWMBO was hospitalised and the most convenient site had no EHU. And as it was Mostly Sunny, so the solars, 2x100, gleaned a lot of input. But by time I went on EHU they where down to 12v on the Monitor.
I have 2 batteries in the garage at home currently, both are permanently wired to small solar panels on the garage wall, It keeps them sorted, the one for my Classic (under refurb) has been there nearly 2 years now. but it shows OK when the acid is tested.
I dont expect miracles with "house" batteries, From long experience they get too much abuse, so sometimes I think it is btter to buy cheap(ish) and be prepared to swap more regularly.
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
Most American motorhomes have a decent charging regime, and will start the engine or be used as auxiliary as standard.
Charge any battery properly, look after them properly and for most people using their motorhomes as most people do, you'll have no issues.
As for the NCC battery approval scheme? no one cares. We have never been asked about it by a customer and nothing we sell has even suggested wanting to join the scheme
Charge any battery properly, look after them properly and for most people using their motorhomes as most people do, you'll have no issues.
As for the NCC battery approval scheme? no one cares. We have never been asked about it by a customer and nothing we sell has even suggested wanting to join the scheme
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
Was that a question?
Seriously with all of the posts, did I miss it? what did you want to ask?
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And not just batteries either
For 20 years I've contributed technical help to a classic British motorbike Forum. I can advise and recommend the most suitable and proven item but time and again the enquirer replies smugly that they got an alternative item cheaper on eBay or elsewhere.............................and a week or two or a month later they're back as it didn't fit, doesn't work very well or hasn't lasted. Sometimes I wonder why I bother.
Last edited:
PeteH
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And not just batteries either
For 20 years I've contributed technical help to a classic British motorbike Forum. I can advise and recommend the most suitable and proven item but time and again the enquirer replies smugly that they got the item cheaper on eBay or elsewhere.............................and a week or two or a month later they're back as it didn't fit, doesn't work very well or hasn't lasted. Sometimes I wonder why bother.
There are serious issues showing up in the classic car forums too. One of the more serious is the Fuel Hoses Failing, (due mostly to Ethanol) one guy recently lost his almost concours 12/50 to a fire alleged to be due to hose failure, R9 is the recommended standard, His was, allegedly, but from a Flea Bay site and cheaper than from the owners club "shop" who get theirs from a more reliable source. There is a long list of Cheap stuff out there which fails quickly.
And not just batteries either
For 20 years I've contributed technical help to a classic British motorbike Forum. I can advise and recommend the most suitable and proven item but time and again the enquirer replies smugly that they got an alternative item cheaper on eBay or elsewhere.............................and a week or two or a month later they're back as it didn't fit, doesn't work very well or hasn't lasted. Sometimes I wonder why I bother.
Absolutely,and there lies the problem most of the time, people in the main firstly look for a solution to a requirement and then look to resolve it the cheapest way possible, and the worst thing of all is that they do it time after time, they never “ learn by experience “ you only get what you pay.
movan
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ambulancekidd
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Lenny HB
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Yes and no, They make Gels that are proper leisure batteries also you can class Li-on as leisure batteries.
There are some flooded batteries that can be classed as leisure they have a paste between the plates that helps them cope with higher DOD's but in reality they are still a dual purpose battery.
Main problem comes when standard starter batteries are relabeled "leisure".
If you want a proper lesiure battery don't buy a flooded cell.
movan
LIFE MEMBER
Managed to get to mh today. Before batteries went caput I could leave it for weeks in Winter and they were still high.
2 new 12v batteries 110 each, were put in last last week.. Went up today and both Leisure and Engine battery reading read 12.2.
See below for photos of lights we spoke of in earlier post, please. Does this show the solar is inputting from sun?
I switched engine on and ran it for 10mins and readings went to Leisure 14.2 with output of 9.8 A.. Engine reading 14.4/5 .. as the engine was running.
When I switched off, the readings were 12.9 but within 5 mins went to 12.6. I will go tomorrow and check again. The Winter sun is bright here and that used to be sufficient. The lights when I left the mh were still the same.
Thank you.
3 red and 2 green.
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
So your leisure batteries are either 60% charged or 40% discharged which ever way you look at it.
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movan
LIFE MEMBER
Thanks, Eddie.. Seems to have dropped a lot in a week for new batteries then.
Do you know if the red/greenlights mean the solar panel is taking power in please?
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
We have a "Rogues Gallery" at work, and I looks from you picture that your regulator is like this?Thanks, Eddie.. Seems to have dropped a lot in a week for new batteries then.
Do you know if the red/green lights mean the solar panel is taking power in please?
If so the three red lights are meant to indicate battery level, the Green light on the left means that the solar panel is charging, and, this is where there may be an issue, the load light is on, which I wouldn't expect to be honest. Are the wires in all six of the terminals? are there wires in
We used to get these regulators with the Alden panels and we used to throw them in the bin, so I would suggest that you try to upgrade yours if and when you can.
The difference between this regulator and a decent MPPT regulator is surprising. From memory we wrote about this when we did a simultaneous test with three 100 watt panels installed.
The SPS 180 regulator was showing about 1.9A and the Victron MPPT was showing over 4 amps!
That is a huge difference!
Your battery setup is a bit different to mine Joy, my solar input is via a Schaudt regulator that goes into the Reich controller and then to the batteries. Do you know what make your solar regulator is, I can't tell from the pics ?
Edit, just typed as Eddie was answering, like he says, you need to find out what's drawing power as indicated by the "load" led.
Wish I was a bit nearer to give you a hand
Edit, just typed as Eddie was answering, like he says, you need to find out what's drawing power as indicated by the "load" led.
Wish I was a bit nearer to give you a hand
movan
LIFE MEMBER
Your battery setup is a bit different to mine Joy, my solar input is via a Schaudt regulator that goes into the Reich controller and then to the batteries. Do you know what make your solar regulator is, I can't tell from the pics ?
Edit, just typed as Eddie was answering, like he says, you need to find out what's drawing power as indicated by the "load" led.
Wish I was a bit nearer to give you a hand
Thank you both so much for your answers.. I am a bit dense on stuff like this so didn't fully understand them, but will go over them again in the morning properly when I am at the motorhome.
I don't know why the load light on.. Is it load from leisure or engine? If leisure, could it be sending a load to the engine battery? (That might be a stupid thing I have just said.. I havn't a clue to be honest.
) Thank you both again. Really AM grateful. Will let you know what readings are tomorrow, out of interest, and try and get my head around stuff.
Xx
By this time of year the sun will only be between 17º (Aberdeen) and 23º (Bournemouth) above the horizon so you are going to get very little from a horizontal solar panel, even on a bright day. This link calculates the angles for you http://www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html
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Solar regulator manufacturers seem to assume that the panel will be used in a very simple setup: solar panel, solar regulator, battery, and a device that requires power. So if, for example, the panel was being used to power a little weather station, or a road sign, and not a large complex motorhome with various charging devices (engine, EHU, etc), then the road sign or weather station would be connected to the 'Load' terminals.
It is possible to make use of them in a motorhome but it's ill-advised (a source of confusion for the owner) and rarely done.
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My battery usage is all the usual low power stuff like led lights, but also high current for the inverter. This may be pulling 150A for short periods and will normally be fairly quickly recharged by solar. As such starter batteries probably have more appropriate characteristics and so I use ordinary flooded batteries which give a few years service and are fairly cheap to replace.
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We must be lucky then, our flat mounted 100w panel easily keeps both the leisure and starter battery fully charged all year.
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