The French are Revolting - - - -AGAIN

[Paul and Val]

There is an update if you care to stay on thread please
/QUOTE]
Sorry. Just trying to stand up for the fact that (sadly) taxes have to be paid. Please ask the fuel protesters how they will fill the shortfall in taxes and they have no answer.

There are three options.
1. Continue paying as we (they) are.
2. Cut services.
3. Raise taxes in other areas to make up the shortfall from any reduction in fuel duty.

As I have said we are disproportionately affected by fuel duty as we do a high mileage.

I dread to think all the heartache and misery these, (in my opinion) very selfish and misguided people will cause by their ill-thought out blockade.

I think that it is all part of the same thread?

 

[Paul and Val]

There is an update if you care to stay on thread please

Sorry. a slight computer glitch a second ago.

I am sorry if you feel that it is off topic but the point we were getting into is that it is easy for these protesters to scream and shout and ruin other peoples lives by blocking roads but we all (sadly) need to pay taxes,

When you ask these protesters how they will make up the shortfall in taxes they have no idea.

Taxes are high here in France, yes, but the services are superb.

Personally I think the fuel protesters/blockaders should be jailed.

 

[DL42846]

If you have has

If you have just received a bill for 31.000 € then I understand your frustration but is that down to not paying previously? I am sorry however. That must have been a bit if a shock to say the least.

No, we have been paying each year. All our figures are handled by our accountancy firm. The tax system in France stinks. No one in France has ever looked into efficiencies. This is probably why the French are kicking off.

 

[robnchris]

Love them or hate them at least the French will challenge things, not like the British that moan about it in the pub, around the kitchen table or on the river bank but when it comes down to it they are just too lethargic to take action, the Brexit farce proves that.

Sad that with all the fantastic things in mainland Europe we only adopted the crap.

 

[Khizzie]

View attachment 263929

The plan (?) to block ALL major ports cities and Autoroutes on November 17

Oh Yes the reason high fuel prices especially Diesel

Been a long time coming, there have been noises in my local village of thiviers so the past year and its getting louder.

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[JJ]

When you ask these protesters how they will make up the shortfall in taxes they have no idea.

Just wondering... have you actually asked any of them?


JJ

 

[Paul and Val]

Just wondering... have you actually asked any of them?


JJ

We all hear lots of noises come out of these people. I was held up for 2 hours earlier this year when French farmers blockaded the ring road around Toulouse by setting tyres on fire and burning the tarmac causing thousands of Euros of damage.

Have you EVER heard one of these 'protesters' tell you that they want taxes raised in another area or spending cut? Never.

They just want the same services but don't want to pay their taxes. They would have more chance asking the tooth fairy for help.

Lock them up!

 

[Khizzie]

We all hear lots of noises come out of these people. I was held up for 2 hours earlier this year when French farmers blockaded the ring road around Toulouse by setting tyres on fire and burning the tarmac causing thousands of Euros of damage.

Have you EVER heard one of these 'protesters' tell you that they want taxes raised in another area or spending cut? Never.

They just want the same services but don't want to pay their taxes. They would have more chance asking the tooth fairy for help.

Lock them up!

Answer.. If you don't like it stay in the UK. And don't whinge about how others try to sort out their problems. I admire the the French standing up to the government unlike the wimps in the UK who mouth off on the social network but sod all to change the issue.

 

[JJ]

Have you EVER heard one of these 'protesters' tell you that they want taxes raised in another area or spending cut? Never.

I am not worried in the least bit about protesters... they don't bother me.


JJ

 

[gus-lopez]

Answer.. If you don't like it stay in the UK

But they live in France & own a business there ?

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[filopastry]

Must admit I agree with the right to protest, withdraw labour and many other things but I find it difficult to justify the criminal damage of roads and extreme pollution by the burning of tyres on roads. You have probably seen tv footage of these fires, look bad eh? now imagine you live close to these fires and the levels of pollutants entering you home. The end does not always justify the means, the argument of "if you don't like it go back to the UK" is a foolish comment and does nothing to progress the discussion.

 

[Theonlysue]

Problem is, higher fuel prices puts the cost of everything else up, including food.
Even over here, fuel prices have been creeping up again. If prices were per gallon rather than litre, it would notice even more.
£1.34 equals £6.08 a gallon!!!
It's pick on the motorist time as always, a captive market!
Good luck with their protest but not sure what they will achieve.

 

[Lot lover]

I have no idea how pension contributions are calculated here but suspect that anyone faced with a bill for EUR 31,000 has either not paid for many years or makes a very large profit or both.

France is not a friendly place for entrepreneurs (remember that POTUS allegedly claimed that the French don't even have a word for them?) and I am amazed that anyone bothers with employees. I was shown a payslip printed on an A4 sheet with more boxes for deductions etc than I could count.

The collapse of GBP after the Brexit vote has taken us out of range of the taxman and our pension only income means no social security tax either. That nice Mr Hammond pays an annual sum for our entry into the French healthcare system to which we add a private illness insurance. Some cash changes hands on visiting doctors etc and for prescriptions but nearly all is refunded into our bank account quickly. I would rather pay and be treated that suffer what appears to be the UK alternative.

Strikes and road closures must be annoying but I have little sympathy for those whose holiday is slightly inconvenienced as opposed to those locals who suffer far more.

Most of the strikes and demonstrations locally have been about threatened school closures, cutting back teacher posts etc. This seems to achieve better results than a letter to the Times from Disgusted of Tunbridge (sp?) Wells.

BTW I have this morning received an official e-mail which promises that one of the property taxes is to be phased out for principal residences. But I have only read it quickly and must check the small print before celebrating.

Undoubtedly some of the taxes that we suffer would be reduced if we still lived in N Essex but on balance we prefer the quiet life at 464 metres in the N Lot. I will be returning to Essex in a few weeks time to commiserate with an old friend recently diagnosed with prostate cancer and I may be in a better position to compare and contrast then.

 

[Paul and Val]

But they live in France & own a business there ?

Indeed we do. We live and pay our taxes here (including fuel duty).

I have absolutely no problem with people marching, singing, waving banners etc. What I object to is the morons who think that blocking roads and stopping other citizens going about their business is the right way to proceed.

As I have said before, people who deliberately block roads should be jailed. Lorry drivers who drive at 5mph on motorways should lose their driving licences and the transport company fined or have the lorry confiscated to stop it happening again.

Can you imagine the response from a transport company if I parked my car in front of their gateway stopping them accessing and exiting their premises because I was unhappy that they had blocked my journey the previous day? It would be a very different story then so why do those morons think it is acceptable to block other road users?

Those of you fellow motor homers who agree with the blockade have to come up with an answer as to how you want the shortfall in fuel duty to be dealt with by the government.

1, Do you want to cut services (if so which ones?)
2, Do you want to raise taxes elsewhere (if so which taxes do you want to pay more for? Income tax? VAT?).

At the end of the day I simply do not understand why anybody would think it is the correct course of action to stop somebody else working or going about their business simply because they are unhappy with the government.

Jail the fuel protesters!

 

[Lot lover]

I do not believe that many motorhomers on this site care how or where French taxes are raised as long as it does not affect them. Any more than Icare how taxes are raised in U.K.

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[Paul and Val]

I do not believe that many motorhomers on this site care how or where French taxes are raised as long as it does not affect them. Any more than Icare how taxes are raised in U.K.

Well that is actually what the whole thread is about. Protesters blocking roads and stopping people driving and working because they are unhappy at the high taxes on fuel.

 

[gus-lopez]

xtreme pollution by the burning of tyres on roads. You have probably seen tv footage of these fires, look bad eh? now imagine you live close to these fires and the levels of pollutants entering you home.

& as the EU directive is the same in France as elsewhere they should be arrected as should the Police standing watching. It is a serious offence against the waste directive .In the UK it is £50k & 2 years.

Can you imagine the response from a transport company if I parked my car in front of their gateway stopping them accessing and exiting their premises because I was unhappy that they had blocked my journey the previous day?

After one of the last protests the British truck drivers who were all ciught up & lost money,loads ,etc; did just that & parked up there trucks blocking the fule depots & other businesses. Funny but they actually got arrested by the Gendarmes who'd been standing watching the day previous.

 

[Paul and Val]

& as the EU directive is the same in France as elsewhere they should be arrected as should the Police standing watching. It is a serious offence against the waste directive .In the UK it is £50k & 2 years.


After one of the last protests the British truck drivers who were all ciught up & lost money,loads ,etc; did just that & parked up there trucks blocking the fule depots & other businesses. Funny but they actually got arrested by the Gendarmes who'd been standing watching the day previous.

It is ridiculous isn't it.

Earlier this year I watched the farmers block the road in front of me, drag tyres across the ring road around Toulouse and set fire to them holding me up (and thousands of other motorists) for over two hours. The CRS (the French riot Police) just watched them. I try never to criticise France as I am accepted here and I live here and I therefore have to accept the good and the bad (mostly very good) and I don't believe in moving to another country and then criticising it, but this idea of blocking other peoples travel I absolutely go mad over and I genuinely believe that they should be jailed.

 

[DL42846]

I do not believe that many motorhomers on this site care how or where French taxes are raised as long as it does not affect them. Any more than Icare how taxes are raised in U.K.

Trouble is it does affect Motorhomers. The price of fuel and cost of living etc. That's why a lot of motorhomers go to Spain and Portugal.

 

[Lot lover]

Perhaps the troublemakers and their unions should be liable for consequential losses resulting from their actions? Not much help to those on holiday but it might pay for the road resurfacing.

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[Paul and Val]

I’m surprised they haven’t revolted before the fuel prices were high in the summer. The stealth tax on fuel is never going to be a popular one .
Viva la France I say!!!

As a protester against high fuel taxes would you be kind enough to give us your opinion.

In order to make up the shortfall in taxes if the fuel duty is reduced would you either

A) Reduce services. If so which ones? Would you close libraries, stop repairs on roads, close schools or hospitals?.
or
B) Would you raise taxes. If so which ones? Would you pay more income taxes, higher VAT or road tolls?

So many people want to pay less taxes and enjoy the same services but I am sure that you have an answer?

 

[Lot lover]

Tax foreign vehicles using our roads particularly Brit registered motor homes.

 

[DL42846]

As a protester against high fuel taxes would you be kind enough to give us your opinion.

In order to make up the shortfall in taxes if the fuel duty is reduced would you either

A) Reduce services. If so which ones? Would you close libraries, stop repairs on roads, close schools or hospitals?.
or
B) Would you raise taxes. If so which ones? Would you pay more income taxes, higher VAT or road tolls?

So many people want to pay less taxes and enjoy the same services but I am sure that you have an answer?

I think you have to live in France and be in the French system to understand the problem.
France is rated as one of the highest taxed countries in the world. If you own your own home or have a business you are crucified by the tax system. The whole infrastructure needs to be looked at and efficiencies put in place. Everyone says the French love paperwork but no one understands why its all necessary. ( if at all) Even the French don't understand the system.
A women owned a business and had one employee. The business took a down turn and she wanted to make the employee redundant. The owner ended up working in a factory to earn money to pay her employee in order to save her business from the tax man.

When I retired and started to claim my British and French pensions. The UK one was dealt with within a week over the internet. The French one took over ten months. On one occasion I had been ringing the pensions office in Lyon for several days in May. After a couple of days the phone was answered by a security officer who was passing. He Informed me the two people had gone off on holiday and no one was in the office till the following week. ( This was the main pensions office in Lyon) Government workers also enjoy longer holidays than the private sector.

In France you have to have a mutual insurance policy to cover you for medical cost. If you own a property and can't pay your medical bill the money is recovered from you estate. I was standing in line at the hospital office to settle a hospital bill. I pay approximately a 60€ a month for the mutual policy for my wife and I. All I have to do is show them the mutual certificate. In front of me was several middle eastern immigrants. I was the only one who paid.
In France when people reach old age and can't afford to pay to be looked after there children have to pay the bill.

I have a field which a construction company wanted to buy. I was offered a hundred thousand Euro. I would have to have paid 30% tax on the sale.

What I am saying is the tax bill should be more evenly distributed. Why should government workers get pensions and benefits that the country can't afford. Why should they be able to retire at 52 on higher pensions than the state pension and the private sector have to work until they are 67 and only get a full pension if they have contributed for 41 years into the system.
So when you say which services should be reduced. I would suggest a more fair system not necessarily reducing services.

The reason why the French are kicking off about the fuel is because the government have been slowly increasing the cost of diesel over the last several months to bring it in line with the price of petrol. This has all come about since all the talk about the effects of diesel pollution. ( another opportunity to increase taxes)

These days to qualify to become a politician the only skills you need is how to come up with new ways of taxing people and bring more people into the country and get there votes rather than managing the country as a business.

Macron has his work cut out. But it doesn't matter as he can make a cock up and then be voted out of office and still get his Government pension. Wouldn't it be nice if these people who come into power making all sorts of claims as to what they are going to achieve . If they were appraised and only remunerated on what they have achieved.

 

[Madcaravanner]

Politically France was always Strange

Money wise the French always want more and pay less as they have always done and why not

At this moment in time The UK still pay more for their diesel and have always done (except for a short time this year) today retailers in the UK reduced the price of petrol by 2p but not that of diesel (well they do sell more of it)

A few years ago everyone was encouraged to by diesel powered vehicles as it was cleaner (?) and cheaper to produce (petrol is a byproduct of diesel production though)

I do think that France does need to sort itself out but the unions hold far too much power and there are factions (farmers + fishermen and others) who far exceed their area of expertese to protest against things that the man in the street doesn't need to be caught up in

I know that if such protests happened in the UK the police would not stand and watch amused by the events as the Gendarmes do

 

[Paul and Val]

[QUOTE="
I know that if such protests happened in the UK the police would not stand and watch amused by the events as the Gendarmes do[/QUOTE]

But they allowed lorry drivers to blockade and carry out rolling road blocks up and down the country some years ago. I was held up for a total of about 20 hours at the time of the fuel protests when we still lived in the UK. I am not aware that any lorry drivers were prosecuted or companies fined. I arrived home after 1am one day after the A1 was blocked for many hours and what is it? 17 or 18 years ago? I am unsure but I know that it still makes me absolutely fume at the thought of it.

I have exactly the same annoyance and lack of respect of individuals who feel that they have the right to block roads and stop other road users in France going about their business.

Shout, march, write to your political representative, campaign, strike and do anything else that you want to but anybody who blocks roads should in my opinion should be jailed.

I also blame the Police for not taking more action to prosecute these law breakers.

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[gus-lopez]

When I retired and started to claim my British and French pensions. The UK one was dealt with within a week over the internet. The French one took over ten months.

You should have come under "EU pension rules" & the claim should have been made in France who then should have coordinated the claim in both countries. additionally under EU rules there is no minimum years & also even a basic pension is increase by between 25 & 30% over normal rates.

 

[dalspa]

[QUOTE="
I know that if such protests happened in the UK the police would not stand and watch amused by the events as the Gendarmes do

A couple of years ago we were travelling north on the A75 and went over the Milau bridge and the road bends to the right, just beforehand the toll. On rounding the bend, the traffic ahead was stopped. Looked like a very serious accident on the southbound carriageway with lorries all skewed over the road and smoke rising up above the “carnage”. On inching forward we realised that it wasn’t an accident, but a protest. The lorries were Fairground vehicles, they were protesting about proposed changes in where they could park up in towns etc. They had a huge charcoal bbq set up in the outside lane, white vans stacked with crates of beer, burgers on bbq (hence the smoke). The Gendarmes stood watching with arms folded. Fortunately we were only held up 5 minutes as we were handed a leaflet, and let on our way. However, the southbound tailback stretched a couple of miles, so a big delay that way.
Could only happen in France.

 

[Paul and Val]

I think you have to live in France and be in the French system to understand the problem.
France is rated as one of the highest taxed countries in the world. If you own your own home or have a business you are crucified by the tax system. The whole infrastructure needs to be looked at and efficiencies put in place. Everyone says the French love paperwork but no one understands why its all necessary. ( if at all) Even the French don't understand the system.


In France you have to have a mutual insurance policy to cover you for medical cost. If you own a property and can't pay your medical bill the money is recovered from you estate. I was standing in line at the hospital office to settle a hospital bill. I pay approximately a 60€ a month for the mutual policy for my wife and I. All I have to do is show them the mutual certificate. In front of me was several middle eastern immigrants. I was the only one who paid.
In France when people reach old age and can't afford to pay to be looked after there children have to pay the bill.

I have a field which a construction company wanted to buy. I was offered a hundred thousand Euro. I would have to have paid 30% tax on the sale.

What I am saying is the tax bill should be more evenly distributed. Why should government workers get pensions and benefits that the country can't afford. Why should they be able to retire at 52 on higher pensions than the state pension and the private sector have to work until they are 67 and only get a full pension if they have contributed for 41 years into the system.
So when you say which services should be reduced. I would suggest a more fair system not necessarily reducing services.

The reason why the French are kicking off about the fuel is because the government have been slowly increasing the cost of diesel over the last several months to bring it in line with the price of petrol. This has all come about since all the talk about the effects of diesel pollution. ( another opportunity to increase taxes)

These days to qualify to become a politician the only skills you need is how to come up with new ways of taxing people and bring more people into the country and get there votes rather than managing the country as a business.

Macron has his work cut out. But it doesn't matter as he can make a cock up and then be voted out of office and still get his Government pension. Wouldn't it be nice if these people who come into power making all sorts of claims as to what they are going to achieve . If they were appraised and only remunerated on what they have achieved.

 

[john lillie]

If the French want to know how to cut taxes and maintain services, all they need to do is ask Jewemy Corbyn! He knows all the answers!

 

[Rob Hammond]

If the French want to know how to cut taxes and maintain services, all they need to do is ask Jewemy Corbyn! He knows all the answers!

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