Tax and my new motorhome?

[John Mee]

I have just returned with my new, to me, 2010 Autocruise Stardream rated at 3500kg. and know people have uprated their vans, to both increase their carrying capacity and to lower the tax rate. I am going to take my now empty van to a weigh bridge this afternoon to see how much I can carry legally. Even if my van's weight allows me to carry plenty the difference in road tax is tempting.
If you uprate the max weight, is it possible to downrate it again? (for selling it maybe)
Does it affect insurance premiums?
Are there any other benefits or negatives in uprating?

 

[Old Gibber]

Does this seem like enough capacity for two old farts?

Depends how overweight the two old farts are.

 

[John Mee]

One's a bit heavy. Shan't say who!

 

[Hoovie]

That may apply for some older vehicles but my 72 plate PHGV Adria is compliant with no charge for London or any other ULEZ/LEZ in the country.

You are in the Minority having such a new vehicle. Many people are not quite as lucky as you are. Remember to throw the crumbs out the window when you waft past the peasants

For the less fortunate, such as the actual OP, who has a 2010 Motorhome and who my answer was aimed at, I have made a comparision chart for a given vehicle spec, that being a 2007 Diesel Motorhome. I think this would apply maybe until vehicles registered upto around 2018 or so?


LEZ-MH by David, on Flickr

 

[Emmit]

That number in the brochure will be MIRO (probably)
That includes 75kgs for a driver, a 6kw gas bottle, a battery at, lets say 25kgs,
90% of fuel and 20kgs of water.

That'll get you below the 3050kgs.

And I can tell you from experience that 95% of UK police wouldn't know MIRO
from a Moggy.

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[Orion]

You are in the Minority having such a new vehicle. Many people are not quite as lucky as you are. Remember to throw the crumbs out the window when you waft past the peasants

For the less fortunate, such as the actual OP, who has a 2010 Motorhome and who my answer was aimed at, I have made a comparision chart for a given vehicle spec, that being a 2007 Diesel Motorhome. I think this would apply maybe until vehicles registered upto around 2018 or so?


LEZ-MH by David, on Flickr

Crumbs, crumbs? My dear fellow they shall have cake and nothing less!

Quite right about those but your answer implied it applied to all >3500kg Motorhomes hence my querying it. Was the turning point the introduction of Euro 6 engines in 2015/16? My wife’s little Kia Soul is an early 2015 registration - no Adblue or other special features - and is coming up exempt.

 

[Hoovie]

Crumbs, crumbs? My dear fellow they shall have cake and nothing less!

Quite right about those but your answer implied it applied to all >3500kg Motorhomes hence my querying it. Was the turning point the introduction of Euro 6 engines in 2015/16? My wife’s little Kia Soul is an early 2015 registration - no Adblue or other special features - and is coming up exempt.

Cars are a different matter.

Many van makers were slow to adopt new regulations, often due to demands by their customers (oh yes, we all want AdBlue systems, don't we?! ). Plus base chassis's may take a long time from the date of production at the factory to the date of registration once it has gone through the process of being created as a Motorhome, which adds another set of time delays.

I bet while there will be ones older than 2018 that pass the test, there are plenty of 2020 Motorhomes that would "fail" the check to be exempt in these LEZes. It is down to the individual to check for themselves, not rely on assumptions on forums. Relying on forum posts alone is the best way to make an unfortunate decision.

 

[TonyEmm]

Up rating will involve a cost (van weight engineering or SV tech), maybe vehicle modifications and double check because the max weight may go up BUT sometimes there can be no gain on the rear axle.
So check your weights first and then see what the 2 companies above say.
Downplating should be no issue, few threads on here about that.

Insurance should not be affected.

There are implications on vehicle speeds and road access with weight limits.
If going to France you will need those lovely big stickers on the side over 3500kg

Not necessarily an increase in cost!

My Rapido plate says 3,500kgs MGW, however, the stage 2 plate (Alko), says 3,700kgs.
I sent a photo to DVLA and within days, I had 200kgs extra payload and reclassified as PHG which reduces my VED!

Replating doesn’t affect speed limits… Motorhome/camper speed limits are dictated by their unladen weight, which hasn’t changed. https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Incidentally, when I approached both DVLA and DVSA earlier this year, both said they didn’t have a database of Motorhome/camper unladen weights!

 

[Steve I]

That number in the brochure will be MIRO (probably)
That includes 75kgs for a driver, a 6kw gas bottle, a battery at, lets say 25kgs,
90% of fuel and 20kgs of water.

That'll get you below the 3050kgs.

And I can tell you from experience that 95% of UK police wouldn't know MIRO
from a Moggy.

Haha, now that I DO believe! All makes great sense and many thanks again for all your detailed advice that is a bit of a game changer as 60 on DC’s and 50 max even on wide A-roads is a nuisance to other users as well as making me fed up. Great news and makes me legit too, not a fiddle… perfect

 

[Minxy]

My Rapido plate says 3,500kgs MGW, however, the stage 2 plate (Alko), says 3,700kgs.
I sent a photo to DVLA and within days, I had 200kgs extra payload and reclassified as PHG which reduces my VED!

Not sure how you managed that as the last plate is the one that determines the max, ie Rapido. IMV the DVLA got it wrong but obviously you have benefited.

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[Old Gibber]

That number in the brochure will be MIRO (probably)
That includes 75kgs for a driver, a 6kw gas bottle, a battery at, lets say 25kgs,
90% of fuel and 20kgs of water.

That'll get you below the 3050kgs.

And I can tell you from experience that 95% of UK police wouldn't know MIRO
from a Moggy.

I have a friend who was a traffic cop for many years. I asked him specifically about unladen weight and how speed limits change if it goes above 3.05t and you are right, he didn't have a clue, and had never heard of it.

 

[TonyEmm]

Not sure how you managed that as the last plate is the one that determines the max, ie Rapido. IMV the DVLA got it wrong but obviously you have benefited.

You’re right of course, I can’t exceed the weight of the stage 3 Rapido plate (3,500kgs) but it does save me £155 per year!

 

[royw]

Cars are a different matter.

Many van makers were slow to adopt new regulations, often due to demands by their customers (oh yes, we all want AdBlue systems, don't we?! ). Plus base chassis's may take a long time from the date of production at the factory to the date of registration once it has gone through the process of being created as a Motorhome, which adds another set of time delays.

I bet while there will be ones older than 2018 that pass the test, there are plenty of 2020 Motorhomes that would "fail" the check to be exempt in these LEZes. It is down to the individual to check for themselves, not rely on assumptions on forums. Relying on forum posts alone is the best way to make an unfortunate decision.

I bought my pilote 783 in france and although its 2014 its euro6 but my uk 2014 touareg is euro5 so my 5.2 tonne beast is seen to be less polluting the my car both are 3L diesel.

 

[royw]

I have a friend who was a traffic cop for many years. I asked him specifically about unladen weight and how speed limits change if it goes above 3.05t and you are right, he didn't have a clue, and had never heard of it.

When my wife attended a speed awareness course the speed limit was discussed for your white van men as many do not relaise they have the lower limits for the heavier van's.

 

[Minxy]

You’re right of course, I can’t exceed the weight of the stage 3 Rapido plate (3,500kgs) but it does save me £155 per year!

Joking apart, my concern is that the next owner may try to utilise the extra capacity for which the chassis was not designed.

I'd be tempted to contact VWE or SVTech to 'enquire' what you could safely go up to without any mods, if they say your new weight then at least you know you're safe.

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[peterc10]

Joking apart, my concern is that the next owner may try to utilise the extra capacity for which the chassis was not designed.

I'd be tempted to contact VWE or SVTech to 'enquire' what you could safely go up to without any mods, if they say your new weight then at least you know you're safe.

Not sure about that. Clearly Alko, the chassis builder, thinks the chassis can take 3700kg safely. Rapido probably plated it lower in order to make a sale easier. Or at the request of the person who ordered it.

TonyEmm did the DVLA change the revenue weight and the MAM on your V5C?

 

[Minxy]

Not sure about that. Clearly Alko, the chassis builder, thinks the chassis can take 3700kg safely. Rapido probably plated it lower in order to make a sale easier. Or at the request of the person who ordered it.

TonyEmm did the DVLA change the revenue weight and the MAM on your V5C?

What you and I don't know though is any mods that Rapido may have done when converting it, highly unlikely and you are probably right as to why it was 3500kg, but it doesn't hurt to check