Tax and my new motorhome?

[John Mee]

I have just returned with my new, to me, 2010 Autocruise Stardream rated at 3500kg. and know people have uprated their vans, to both increase their carrying capacity and to lower the tax rate. I am going to take my now empty van to a weigh bridge this afternoon to see how much I can carry legally. Even if my van's weight allows me to carry plenty the difference in road tax is tempting.
If you uprate the max weight, is it possible to downrate it again? (for selling it maybe)
Does it affect insurance premiums?
Are there any other benefits or negatives in uprating?

 

[tonka]

Up rating will involve a cost (van weight engineering or SV tech), maybe vehicle modifications and double check because the max weight may go up BUT sometimes there can be no gain on the rear axle.
So check your weights first and then see what the 2 companies above say.
Downplating should be no issue, few threads on here about that.

Insurance should not be affected.

There are implications on vehicle speeds and road access with weight limits.
If going to France you will need those lovely big stickers on the side over 3500kg

 

[John Mee]

Thanks!

I just got it weighed and it's a smidge over 3100kg with 3/4 of a tank of fuel, some water (not sure how much, probably just enought to demonstrate the taps yesterday) and me. It has solar, a tv and a new bike rack already.
We are probably buying 2 electric bikes and have 2 small dogs. Does this seem like enough capacity for two old farts?
Oh, the AA renewal has just arrived and says there is a 3500kg limit!
What difference does it make in France, apart from a sticker?.........or elsewhere? Cheers John

 

[Fdhadi]

Not sure with it being a 2010 model but for some strange reason if uprated there is sometimes no charge in Clean Air Zones where at 3500 there could be.
It will cost around £250 to get uprated (Van Weight cheaper than SV Tech) and the same to downplate when you come to sell.

You might be able to up-rate to say 3650/3700 without any mods. Not a huge amount but if you think you’re border line at 3500 it will help, you could even have another pie for your dinner

 

[Manic]

I uprated my Hymer and the only possible drawback is the towing capacity went down by the uprated amount because the train weight stayed the same.

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[acropolis22]

I have just returned with my new, to me, 2010 Autocruise Stardream rated at 3500kg. and know people have uprated their vans, to both increase their carrying capacity and to lower the tax rate. I am going to take my now empty van to a weigh bridge this afternoon to see how much I can carry legally. Even if my van's weight allows me to carry plenty the difference in road tax is tempting.
If you uprate the max weight, is it possible to downrate it again? (for selling it maybe)
Does it affect insurance premiums?
Are there any other benefits or negatives in uprating?

There are several countries in Europe where a motorway vignette is more expensive for vehicles over 3500kg GVW.

 

[peterc10]

Over 3500kg and you will need a C1 licence to drive it.

 

[GeoffnDee]

The driving licence required alters once over 3500 kg. ,if that matters . Also I think that the AA may not cover it for breakdowns due to its size (even if 3500 kg ) , with normal membership.

 

[IRHP]

Yes you can down plate it needs a weighbridge certificate though. Not expensive or difficult to obtain.

 

[John Mee]

I have C1 - being old! Our AA cover is for up to 3500kg. My daughter has already tested this with her hippy heap! The speed restrictions don't really bother me and I will not be towing anything.

I plan to travel in Europe. Ireland will probably be first outside of the UK. I would only use a motorway in Europe if really necessary.

The AA seems to be my only worry. Do they check the plate? It will still look the same and probably still weigh the same - just cheaper road tax. Cheers John.

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[Minxy]

In the UK the speed is related to the unladen weight not registered weight however in mainland Europe speed is related to registered weight.

 

[John Mee]

Thank you. This is all a new learning experience.

 

[Orion]

I took the no cost factory option of going to 3650kg on our Adria Compact when ordering but found that when fully loaded we were just the wrong side of exactly spot on.

Not too worried though given the tolerances allowed and the fact that I’ve already installed Dunlop rear air suspension. Anyhow, I’ve now been in contact with Dee at VWE, and after providing all the relevant information and photos requested, can look forward to up plating to 4250kg with the all important rear axle at 2400kg.

There are only the two of us, although I stress that we were fully equipped for 8 weeks away and carrying a fair amount of kit, but how do some of the manufacturers get away with marketing 3500kg vans as suitable for families of 4 (or more)?

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks!

I just got it weighed and it's a smidge over 3100kg with 3/4 of a tank of fuel, some water (not sure how much, probably just enought to demonstrate the taps yesterday) and me. It has solar, a tv and a new bike rack already.
We are probably buying 2 electric bikes and have 2 small dogs. Does this seem like enough capacity for two old farts?
Oh, the AA renewal has just arrived and says there is a 3500kg limit!
What difference does it make in France, apart from a sticker?.........or elsewhere? Cheers John

I think you will really struggle with a small payload like that, especially with e-bikes.
Also not a good idea to carry e-bikes on a rear mounted bike carrier quite a few instances of rear walls delaminating.

 

[John Mee]

Why would the rear delaminate? Are we talking too much weight? I have seen vans with 4 bikes on board, not ebikes, but must have weighed a comparable amount. You have made me investigate further.

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[Lenny HB]

Yes, due to weight and bouncing about on the road.
If the van has proper mountings built into the rear wall and reinforcing plates inside it's a lot better. Our first Hymer was like that but I still wouldn't have wanted to carry e-bikes on it.
Not sure I could lift an e- bike weighing 25 to 30kg onto a rack.

 

[TrudeandDall]

Yes, due to weight and bouncing about on the road.
If the van has proper mountings built into the rear wall and reinforcing plates inside it's a lot better. Our first Hymer was like that but I still wouldn't have wanted to carry e-bikes on it.
Not sure I could lift an e- bike weighing 25 to 30kg onto a rack.

I certainly couldn't lift an Ebike onto a rear rack as even with the batteries out our German Trekking Ebikes weigh 24kg each. It's a tow bar rack for me....

 

[Badknee]

but how do some of the manufacturers get away with marketing 3500kg vans as suitable for families of 4 (or more)?

Manufactures lie through their back teeth. We have owned three mohos and I’ve stuck them all onto a weighbridge as soon as I bought them and uprated all three.

 

[Steve I]

Up rating will involve a cost (van weight engineering or SV tech), maybe vehicle modifications and double check because the max weight may go up BUT sometimes there can be no gain on the rear axle.
So check your weights first and then see what the 2 companies above say.
Downplating should be no issue, few threads on here about that.

Insurance should not be affected.

There are implications on vehicle speeds and road access with weight limits.
If going to France you will need those lovely big stickers on the side over 3500kg

Just to back that up, I had to send the copies of the upgrade and new rating to the insurers but no extra cost but remember the lower speed restrictions off motorways.

 

[Tim P]

Depends on what e-bikes you buy. I have a Juicy (Neomouv) "ticket" and "open ticket" electric assist urban bikes 10.5Ah built in batteries and they only weigh 16Kg each so perfect for a rear mounted bike carrier.

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[Bailey58]

You don't say if there's another passenger to go, wife at (say) 70kg, 2 bikes at 25kg each, water at maybe another 100kg if you travel full like many do then there's food for you and the dogs apart from clothes and all the other bits we throw in just in case.

 

[Orion]

…….. but remember the lower speed restrictions off motorways.

Is that correct (in the U.K. anyway)? The unladen weight of the supplied vehicle as per the CoC will not have altered.

 

[Steve I]

Is that correct (in the U.K. anyway)? The unladen weight of the supplied vehicle as per the CoC will not have altered.

I could be wrong but all blogs I’ve read and sure also one.Gov (may be wrong) are that LGV’s <7.5T are 70 motorway/ 60 dual carriageway and 50 single de-restricted carriageways. Like I say, I’m no expert but when having it done that was I was finding

 

[Orion]

I could be wrong but all blogs I’ve read and sure also one.Gov (may be wrong) are that LGV’s <7.5T are 70 motorway/ 60 dual carriageway and 50 single de-restricted carriageways. Like I say, I’m no expert but when having it done that was I was finding

Okay, I think you’ve missed the fact that MoHos are dealt with under a specific categorisation and not as LGV/HGV. Have a look at this LINK

It’s based on unladen weight only so at no greater than 3.05 tonne ULW are still at the higher car speed limits.

 

[Steve I]

Okay, I think you’ve missed the fact that MoHos are dealt with under a specific categorisation and not as LGV/HGV. Have a look at this LINK

It’s based on unladen weight only so at no greater than 3.05 tonne ULW are still at the higher car speed limits.

Ah got it and that will be really useful to lots of folk, unfortunately my Chausson is a bit more than 3.05 so I’m correct for me but sounds like several users won’t be affected. This is really appreciated and the sort of info I joined this group for, brilliant thank you

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[Emmit]

" unfortunately my Chausson is a bit more than 3.05"

Not being ar5ey but how do you know?

The Unladen weight @3.05 is exactly that. Unladen.
No fuel, no water, no gas bottle, no driver, no 'extras' such as a habitation battery(ies),
solar panel(s), an awning, Nothing.

The fact that there isn't anywhere in your documentation that will show what
the unladen weight actually is means that there is no evidence for the Authorities
to say what your Unladen Weight actually is.

 

[Orion]

Ah got it and that will be really useful to lots of folk, unfortunately my Chausson is a bit more than 3.05 so I’m correct for me but sounds like several users won’t be affected. This is really appreciated and the sort of info I joined this group for, brilliant thank you

I’d be very surprised if the ULW of your Chausson 640 is >3.05. Although it’s difficult to get to an exact figure the manufacturer’s stated MIRO on the CoC gives a good starting point.

As an example my 7m 3650kg Adria Compact is stated at 2773kg MIRO with actual mass of vehicle (as delivered with options) of 3018kg - both below the magic 3050kg limit.

 

[Hoovie]

something which has been missed on the replies is regarding the various ULEZ/LEZ areas that are appearing in the UK ... a >3500Kg Motor Caravan is much more heavily penalised than an PLG Motor Caravan.
something to bear in mind if your travels require you to enter any of these.

 

[Orion]

something which has been missed on the replies is regarding the various ULEZ/LEZ areas that are appearing in the UK ... a >3500Kg Motor Caravan is much more heavily penalised than an PLG Motor Caravan.
something to bear in mind if your travels require you to enter any of these.

That may apply for some older vehicles but my 72 plate PHGV Adria is compliant with no charge for London or any other ULEZ/LEZ in the country.

 

[Steve I]

" unfortunately my Chausson is a bit more than 3.05"

Not being ar5ey but how do you know?

The Unladen weight @3.05 is exactly that. Unladen.
No fuel, no water, no gas bottle, no driver, no 'extras' such as a habitation battery(ies),
solar panel(s), an awning, Nothing.

The fact that there isn't anywhere in your documentation that will show what
the unladen weight actually is means that there is no evidence for the Authorities
to say what your Unladen Weight actually is.

That’s interesting, I went off the brochure/website which was 3140 from memory, wouldn’t that be the number any officer being difficult would use as if they sent you to a weighbridge it would be laden and it’s always well under the 4400kg and rear axle isn’t overloaded either, I checked that early days too. I’m guessing what you’re saying is that there’s a far bigger problem with overweight Moho’s than arguing whether the unladen weight is over/under 3.05, if so that’s another great point thank you