Tank Filling Problems

[lebowski]

Probable Newbie Question Alert, sorry......
Having previously drained the fresh water tank, on my Rapido 8096df 2018, I am attempting to refill it again without much success.
Clearly I am fighting air in the tank as it first burped at me and now it will only accept about 200ml before overflowing.
I cannot find any breather, or vent, on the tank. There is the fill hose, an outlet to the pump and some wires that I assume go to the display (these both exit from the 'access holes'). There is a blue hose that exits underneath the MH but appears to head past the water tank, rather than into it.
The two 'access holes' are on top of the tank and can be turned a few degrees by hand. They then both hiss and expel a little water, after a few minutes of this I can add another 200ml....
There is nothing dumping and all the outlets are running fine.
Does anyone have any ideas of what I am (or have been) doing wrong?

 

[rb62]

If there's water coming out of the top access holes it sounds like it's full!

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Your doing nothing wrong...its full! 200ml is nothing to be honest.Possibly taking up the rest of the air gap? Normally the tank would over Flow to let you know its full....sounds like the over flow pipe or out let may be bunged up?

Kev

 

[lebowski]

If there's water coming out of the top access holes it sounds like it's full!

Thanks for your reply
Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. The water coming out of the holes is virtually nothing, it's just spitting out, similar to what you might get when first start bleeding a radiator.
I can see the level in the tank and it's maybe 50% full.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Is it possible the gauge is reading faulty? You say the tank is half full...is that using the gauge ? When you fill with water from a hose ...does it blow back at the filler point at all?

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[lebowski]

Your doing nothing wrong...its full! 200ml is nothing to be honest.Possibly taking up the rest of the air gap? Normally the tank would over Flow to let you know its full....sounds like the over flow pipe or out let may be bunged up?

Kev

Thanks for the reply, Kev.
I can see the level and it's probably around 50% full and is still rising, just very slowly.
As far as I can tell, as I add water I am forcing the air upwards. You would assume that there should be some form of pressure release but I can't see any other opening, other than the two access holes. By turning one of these I get air seeping out.

 

[lebowski]

Is it possible the gauge is reading faulty? You say the tank is half full...is that using the gauge ? When you fill with water from a hose ...does it blow back at the filler point at all?

It could be as I've read on here that they can be but the tank is visible in the garage and it's nowhere near full.
If I try to fill, either with a low pressure hose, or even a water bottle and funnel, it will accept some but then overflows. Then if I leave it for 10/15 mins, it will take some more.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Hi again...Still think there should be an overflow from the main tank when its full. I have seen my tank throwing water out when I have not been watching it! There should be a overflow on the tank to allow air out when filling up but also to prevent a vacuum when using a tap etc. It sounds like you do have a bit of a blockage somewhere ? Possibly the tank overflow?
Kev

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Just a thought....you have drained the tank yes? Open all the taps in the water system with the 12v pump off. Basically as if you are refilling from the start. When you are full (Or as full as you can be ) Open the taps individually . Remove the air as if from winterised !
Fill the system whilst the one tap is open . Remove all the air that may be trapped.Hopefully this should eliminate your blockage if its air trapped.

Kev

 

[lebowski]

Hi again...Still think there should be an overflow from the main tank when its full. I have seen my tank throwing water out when I have not been watching it! There should be a overflow on the tank to allow air out when filling up but also to prevent a vacuum when using a tap etc. It sounds like you do have a bit of a blockage somewhere ? Possibly the tank overflow?
Kev

So do I, but I cannot see anything there! You would think that the overflow would be on top or at least high up on the tank but there's nothing....
The valve to empty the tank does have a 20 litre position but that is turned to fill 100%.
As far as I can tell I am pushing air upwards as I fill, turning the access hole then lets the air escape. But surely there has to be something else!
Thanks so much for your help Kev.

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[Carolyn and Kev]

Trying for you bud. Sorry it may be a little useless but I was always told that Two heads are better than one....even if one is a sheep?
Im sure my father was taking the pee out of me?
Try the winterised set up. Open a tap and try it with the pump on if need be. The pump can handle it for a while as long as water is coming through . Hopefully you should see some result?
Still can't see why you don't have water overflowing from the tank unless its blocked ?
Kev

 

[lebowski]

Just a thought....you have drained the tank yes? Open all the taps in the water system with the 12v pump off. Basically as if you are refilling from the start. When you are full (Or as full as you can be ) Open the taps individually . Remove the air as if from winterised !
Fill the system whilst the one tap is open . Remove all the air that may be trapped.Hopefully this should eliminate your blockage if its air trapped.

Kev

I did previously empty the tank last autumn, yes. We then used the MH for a quick weekender in November and thought we'd filled it completely as it burped back. When we then parked up 20 mins later, we realised we'd left the pump dump on. We thought we must have lost nearly all our water as there wasn't much left. We then came back and left it parked up until now.
When I first started filling today I switched the pump on and cleared the air out of all the outlets.
Are you suggesting I leave a tap open but the pump off and then fill? Does the pump allow air/water through?

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Hi again...just had a quick look for you on another site . Apparently the filler on yours is roughly 30mm in diameter and there is a small hole of 5 to 8mm that allows for the tank to bleed or vent off when filling it.

Is this similar to yours and if so...Its a slow fill from the main inlet otherwise the outlet or small vent fills with water and causes a blockage or air trap preventing filling

Kev

 

[lebowski]

Trying for you bud. Sorry it may be a little useless but I was always told that Two heads are better than one....even if one is a sheep?
Im sure my father was taking the pee out of me?
Try the winterised set up. Open a tap and try it with the pump on if need be. The pump can handle it for a while as long as water is coming through . Hopefully you should see some result?
Still can't see why you don't have water overflowing from the tank unless its blocked ?
Kev

You trying is very much appreciated, if you're ever down in SW France, I owe you a few bieres!
I can see that air can be pushed out through the taps but once the water passes the end of the pickup pipe in the tank, the air is then trapped in the tank.
There has to be some sort of air release, unless the idea is to take off the cap on one of the access holes. This needs a 'special tool' according to the manual...

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

I did previously empty the tank last autumn, yes. We then used the MH for a quick weekender in November and thought we'd filled it completely as it burped back. When we then parked up 20 mins later, we realised we'd left the pump dump on. We thought we must have lost nearly all our water as there wasn't much left. We then came back and left it parked up until now.
When I first started filling today I switched the pump on and cleared the air out of all the outlets.
Are you suggesting I leave a tap open but the pump off and then fill? Does the pump allow air/water through?

No let the pump run whilst filling. It will run any air out. Opening the tap just allows any residual air to be removed when the pump kicks in

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[Carolyn and Kev]

You trying is very much appreciated, if you're ever down in SW France, I owe you a few bieres!
I can see that air can be pushed out through the taps but once the water passes the end of the pickup pipe in the tank, the air is then trapped in the tank.
There has to be some sort of air release, unless the idea is to take off the cap on one of the access holes. This needs a 'special tool' according to the manual...

That's a bummer! All should be easy when we take the beasts on! What does the tool look like? Can you compromise and use something spun up? Hopefully someone else may be along to help soon? I will look for you and come back if I can muster something up for you

Kev

 

[lebowski]

That's a bummer! All should be easy when we take the beasts on! What does the tool look like? Can you compromise and use something spun up? Hopefully someone else may be along to help soon? I will look for you and come back if I can muster something up for you

Kev

Thanks Kev.
The tanks runs right across the garage and as you can see from the first pic it's only up to just above the tape. It also shows the access holes. The left one is the supply pipe, I'm guessing, the 'access' is in name alone.... I've no idea what the special tool looks like.

The second pic is looking down from the end of the tank and shows the fill pipe and no vent. I'd guess the fill pipe is 5-6cm wide.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

The filler neck....does it have a small hole next to the main fill hole?Think of a petrol filer. It has a small pipe behind the main filler to allow for the fuel to vent whilst filling up. Do you have that set up at all ? There must be a vent blockage causing you this issue . Your tank is trying to fit up cannot vent to remove air. It has to be a form of blockage in the tank to vent pipe somewhere I am sure

Kev.....will keep looking for you.

 

[lebowski]

The filler neck....does it have a small hole next to the main fill hole?Think of a petrol filer. It has a small pipe behind the main filler to allow for the fuel to vent whilst filling up. Do you have that set up at all ? There must be a vent blockage causing you this issue . Your tank is trying to fit up cannot vent to remove air. It has to be a form of blockage in the tank to vent pipe somewhere I am sure

Kev.....will keep looking for you.

Nope no vent hole on the filler neck.... That would be too easy!
Unless there is something at the back of the tank and therefore impossible to see, there is no vent on the top, or either side of the tank.
I agree there has to be some way of venting the air but the only way I can see is to open one of those access holes. But surely that can't be right, otherwise it would be mentioned in the manual?

 

[David and Sally]

Thanks Kev.
The tanks runs right across the garage and as you can see from the first pic it's only up to just above the tape. It also shows the access holes. The left one is the supply pipe, I'm guessing, the 'access' is in name alone.... I've no idea what the special tool looks like.

The second pic is looking down from the end of the tank and shows the fill pipe and no vent. I'd guess the fill pipe is 5-6cm wide.

View attachment 1021157View attachment 1021158

Odd one. Why all the silicone on the inlet fixing?
And, I presume the filler neck input on the van side is a lot higher than the tank. Looks to me like the water flows until the filler pipe into the tank is under water and then the air trapped above is not venting out.

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[meanders]

Ours has an internal vent that goes back through the tank and out the bottom. If I fill with a hose, and it gets over the internal level the water drops out underneath. From memory it's just a hole which is slightly proud of the underfloor.

 

[lebowski]

Odd one. Why all the silicone?
And, I presume the filler next input is a lot higher than the tank. Looks to me like the water flows until the filler pipe into the tank is under water and then the air trapped above is not venting out.

Thanks for your reply.
Other than the usual standard of build I've found on my MH, I have no idea why there is so much. I bought it secondhand but I'm guessing it's original.
Yes filler is much higher and I think you're right, once above the filler the air cannot escape up the filler hose, once the pick up pipe is under water it can't vent the air through the taps etc.
I can't see how you can create a vacuum in the tank, so there must be air in there, so there has to be a means of escape once the level passes both pipes. However I cannot find an outlet other than the access holes. They aren't accessible and need a special tool to remove.
There is a dump valve that can stop at 20 litre capacity but it can't be that as that would be below the water level once you get past 20 litres.
There is no mention of venting in the manual either.

 

[David and Sally]

Ours has an internal vent that goes back through the tank and out the bottom. If I fill with a hose, and it gets over the internal level the water drops out underneath. From memory it's just a hole which is slightly proud of the underfloor.

View attachment 1021166

As suggested here, is there an outlet under the tank for overflow? If so, that could be blocked causing the trapped air in the tank. Can you disconnect that black outlet in the first pic just to test if the water then fills the tank?

 

[lebowski]

Ours has an internal vent that goes back through the tank and out the bottom. If I fill with a hose, and it gets over the internal level the water drops out underneath. From memory it's just a hole which is slightly proud of the underfloor.

View attachment 1021166

Thanks for the reply and for the pic, which makes perfect sense, thank you.
However, the only pipe, or holes, in that area are the dump for the tank and a blue pipe that exits to the left of the tank. Working back from this exit underneath, this blue pipe then goes into a void next to the tank, then reappears and heads forward past the tank. I can't see how it would enter the tank.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

The small diameter pipe in the cap above the lower one in the picture on the right side...do you have access to it? If so...Remove the pipe and fill the tank...The air blockage may be in that pipe? Does this go to a gauge or where?

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[David and Sally]

The small diameter pipe in the cap above the lower one in the picture on the right side...do you have access to it? If so...Remove the pipe and fill the tank...The air blockage may be in that pipe? Does this go to a gauge or where?

Could that be the level sensor cable?

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Possibly? Is it also the problem? Does it allow ventilation to the sensor? It seems to be the logical answer to be honest? Its the only way the air can vent I would think?

 

[lebowski]

As suggested here, is there an outlet under the tank for overflow? If so, that could be blocked causing the trapped air in the tank. Can you disconnect that black outlet in the first pic just to test if the water then fills the tank?

There is an outlet but it goes forward past the tank and not into it.
The outlet is the feed to the pump, as far as I can see, and looks like some sort of push fit that I have never disconnected.
As once this problem is solved, we will be heading off for 5 weeks, I am not confident that I wont damage the fitting and be beaten (understandably) by Mrs Lebowski.

 

[lebowski]

Could that be the level sensor cable?

As far as I know it is exactly that. It is also the harder of the two caps to turn. Turning the left cap slightly releases some air, which then allows me to add a little more.

 

[lebowski]

Possibly? Is it also the problem? Does it allow ventilation to the sensor? It seems to be the logical answer to be honest? Its the only way the air can vent I would think?

I think it's just an electrical sensor.....

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