Tablet?

[GJH]

Have you looked at an iPad 2?

Yes, and the rest of them - and rejected them

 

[Gromett]

They claim to have invented tablet as well
Haven't they Seen Star Trek or The film 2001...

They were aware of the Knight Ridder tablet concept and even talked to it's creator.. Video from 1994..
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBEtPQDQNcI[/ame]

Apple invented Multitouch
However according to some sources it was the University of Toronto's Input Research Group developed the first human-input multi-touch system in 1982....

Watch this video from 3:30
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8lCetZ_57g[/ame]

As you can see multitouch working in full in 1991.... Apples patents for this are 2007.oh:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JZBLjxPBUU[/ame]

They didn't even write the software... They bought a company called Fingerworks to bring this technology in...

Their trade dress lawsuit against samsung was based on a Design Patent which describes rectangles with rounded corners (well roughly speaking)

The patents and design patents are ridiculous...
http://www.zdnet.com/the-verdict-is-in-samsung-vs-apple-7000003163/

For example double tap to zoom patent. Sorry this is just double click (with mouse) to zoom which I remember doing in 87 on my Commodore amiga. Doing it on a touch screen should not be patentable.

Bounceback, another software "feature" is obvious and has prior art.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/15/3244581/samsung-expert-apple-bounce-back-patent-invalid

Samsung's lawyers were incompetent verging on crap...

Apple didn't invent anything as far as I can tell. All they did was design a very nice package and put a bunch of elements together when the technology became available to do it.

Sorry I just realised what was going to be a quick comment turned into a rant oh: I'll Shut up now.

 

[Gromett]

If you want more info on all this (I find it interesting)

http://groklaw.net/

 

[Chris]

I don't know anything about the history or the technology. What I do know is that it works beautifully and you can't blame Apple for that.

 

[Gromett]

I don't know anything about the history or the technology. What I do know is that it works beautifully and you can't blame Apple for that.

No but I can blame them for trying to supress competition with puerile lawsuits..... They are winning in the market place by producing great well engineered products why do they need to do stupid things like this?

In the 70's IBM was the big nasty...
In the 80's and 90's Microsoft became the big nasty...
In the 00's it was SCO trying to be the big nasty (and failing miserably)
Now Apple and Oracle are both having a good go at it because they don't want to compete in an open market...

Even Microsoft is now starting to play nicer with the other children....

Why is it always big American companies that want to play bully boy :Angry:

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[bandit]

ASUS Transformer

Ive got ASUS transformer use it all the time,got good battery life been able to use the screen independant of the keyboard.all the best,THE BANDIT:thumb:

 

[bungy]

It's all a game. Which company do Apple source most of their chips from?

And Apple have a right cheek anyway - if it wasn't for them pinching stuff from PARC about 40 years ago they never would have got the basis for building the company

aint that the truth!!

this is an interesting read...about the so called case

As to the opening question...some pretty good android tablets out there at the moment - and some incredibly cheap ones to..or are they real price and others are incredibly expensive

 

[Chris]

aint that the truth!!

this is an interesting read...about the so called case

As to the opening question...some pretty good android tablets out there at the moment - and some incredibly cheap ones to..or are they real price and others are incredibly expensive

That case report is shocking

These cases are not suitable for jury trial.

Samsung didn't stand a chance in an American court I suspect.

 

[ShiftZZ]

I bought an Apple iphone and for a short while I was impressed, it worked well, nice features, but full of bugs, no end of upgrades and at one time I went to an Apple shop in Glasgow to complain and they were aware of the issue and a 'fix' was forthcoming " in the next few months".

Battery life was poor, but my biggest gripe was the 'control' that Apple had over the customer. even something as simple as using your own MP3 file as a ring tone was hard to do. They controlled everything and thats when I decided to move on...,

I looked around and found Samsung, very similar,but, better, faster and a lot less control over the customer. Yes there are issues like sync to Outlook etc. But the relief of not owning an apple was immense.

The court case in the USA was a joke, talk about protecting their own industry... Just re-enforces my dislike for the USA and the great American dream..

They invented the TV,computer and everything else, just so anal retentive the Yanks, in a sentence "no class"..

 

[Pikey Pete]

A lot of vitriol here against Apple, I wonder why?

Of those who mention PARC, they did bring a lawsuit against Apple, which was thrown out by the Judge as trivial.

Apple are just doing what any other major company would do. They are protecting their interests and hitting back at those who like Samsung have clearly copied Apple products to get a cheaper leg up into the market place.

Apple did all the ground work and took all the risks by launching new products into the market place, they could have crashed and burned but they didn't.

Once all the others saw their success, they immediately set about trying to copy the idea, but without making it look too obvious. Samsung made it look too obvious and quite rightly have got their wrists slapped.
This "walled" approach that you talk about Apple having was not about Apple, so much, as about the Music Publishing companies.
Apple had the vision of selling music over the internet but had to "wall it" has has been said, so that the Music Publishers would come on board. Sony in particular insisted on the system of down loading their music, was via Apple iTunes to prevent it being copied.

Apple didn't invent the Tablet computer but they did make it work properly and also made it easier to use. When they took a huge risk and launched the iPad all the critics said it was just a big iPhone, it wouldn't catch on and Apple would lose their money.

If it wasn't for Apple's vision and risk taking I wonder how many of us today, actually would know what a Tablet computer was.

I could go on but I won't.

Pete:Cool:

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[Munchie]

My vitriol is purely on pricing. When I bought my i7 Toshiba I looked at the equivalent mac. More or less the same hardware but twice the price. WHY??? :Angry: Ripoff simples.

 

[Pikey Pete]

My vitriol is purely on pricing. When I bought my i7 Toshiba I looked at the equivalent mac. More or less the same hardware but twice the price. WHY??? :Angry: Ripoff simples.

Apple spend a lot of money on research and development. They also spend serious money on design.

Apple take huge risks, bringing innovative products into the market place and they have had their very costly failures such as the Newton one of the very first PDAs, which was highly advanced at the time but unfortunately not very user friendly.

All this costs shed loads of money and has to be recouped through sales.

I think though that when you buy an Apple product you are buying into the high quality end of the market.

Not many Sony or Toshiba for that matter or any other PC builder you care to mention, computers are still doing the business at 10 to 15 years old. Thousands of Apple computers are.

The Macbook I'm using now is 6 years old and it still out performs most of the PC laptops I've seen.

Pete:Cool:

 

[Munchie]

sorry but thats a myth. There were many ancient windows machines Toshiba and Dell where I worked which had been used and abused for years.
Apple are not the only company that are innovative and produce quality products. :Angry:

 

[Pikey Pete]

sorry but thats a myth. There were many ancient windows machines Toshiba and Dell where I worked which had been used and abused for years.
Apple are not the only company that are innovative and produce quality products. :Angry:

I didn't say they were, but they are at the high end of the market.

I do wonder though where would the MP3 Player, Smart phone, and the Tablet, be if Apple hadn't taken all the risks with the iPOD, iPHONE, and iPAD.

They all must be good, because everyone else is "copying" them.

Pete:Cool:

 

[buttons]

I didn't say they were, but they are at the high end of the market.

I do wonder though where would the MP3 Player, Smart phone, and the Tablet, be if Apple hadn't taken all the risks with the iPOD, iPHONE, and iPAD.

They all must be good, because everyone else is "copying" them.

Pete:Cool:

Who invented the motor car, is Rolls Royce a copy of that.

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[Munchie]

I didn't say they were, but they are at the high end of the market.

I do wonder though where would the MP3 Player, Smart phone, and the Tablet, be if Apple hadn't taken all the risks with the iPOD, iPHONE, and iPAD.

They all must be good, because everyone else is "copying" them.

Pete:Cool:

Same can be said of Microsoft. They are at the high end of the market due to the inflated price.:Angry:

 

[GJH]

Vitriol or not, it isn't simply about protecting a company's interests.

Trying to claim a patent over the shape of a tablet is as ludicrous as trying to claim a patent over a CRT screen or early PC keyboard would have been. The modern tablet concept is well over 40 years old and Microsoft had one working over 10 years ago - and that's even if one ignores ideas from well over 100 years ago.

Trying to claim a patent over the shape of a tablet is as ludicrous as it would be if American Express tried to sue Barclaycard for using a similar design of credit card.

I bought an iPod a few years ago. Great MP3 player but I wish I'd bought something different because the software updates are a pain in the neck. That's the main reason why I avoid Apple products now. As far as the tablet goes, I wanted a 7 inch model and there is no such thing in the iPad range.

 

[Munchie]

Their products are not as good as they are made out to be.

Think I phone they put the ariel where you held the phone+would not connect. Pfft very innovative!

Same as their software I have never had a Windows 7 crash come to that I had no problem with Vista Ultimate. :thumb:

 

[bungy]

Samsung didn't stand a chance in an American court I suspect.

how true...this is an instresting read too, now im no legal person, but surley this is a mistrial waiting to happen?

 

[Gooney]

Apple vs Samsung

Apple vs Samsung

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[Gromett]

A lot of vitriol here against Apple, I wonder why?

Of those who mention PARC, they did bring a lawsuit against Apple, which was thrown out by the Judge as trivial.

Quite rightly. software should not be allowed to be patented. Now Apple want it to be patented....

Apple are just doing what any other major company would do. They are protecting their interests and hitting back at those who like Samsung have clearly copied Apple products to get a cheaper leg up into the market place.

No they aren't. they are patenting stuff that is trivial, obvious and has prior art in other fields. They are then using these trivial patents to try to shut down competition. No other company is trying to do this...

Apple did all the ground work and took all the risks by launching new products into the market place, they could have crashed and burned but they didn't.

And? They have first to market advantage. Lots of companies release new and innovating products. They don't then sue the competition to prevent them competing (unless they do direct copies or infringe proper patents)

Once all the others saw their success, they immediately set about trying to copy the idea, but without making it look too obvious. Samsung made it look too obvious and quite rightly have got their wrists slapped.

If Apple had just sued regarding a straight forward copy (trade dress) I would have no problems at all with apple. However they sued on lots of things to try and shut down Android development. They just don't like competition.

This "walled" approach that you talk about Apple having was not about Apple, so much, as about the Music Publishing companies.
Apple had the vision of selling music over the internet but had to "wall it" has has been said, so that the Music Publishers would come on board. Sony in particular insisted on the system of down loading their music, was via Apple iTunes to prevent it being copied.

You are mixing up walled garden and DRM. The music/film companies wanted DRM. I have no problems with this as I still have a choice what to buy. With Apples walled garden approach though you can ONLY load apps that you buy from them from their store. You cannot side load other software from third parties. This is what I mean by walled garden. They are the gatekeeper for all that is good.. They decide what software you can run on your iDevice not you..

Apple didn't invent the Tablet computer but they did make it work properly and also made it easier to use. When they took a huge risk and launched the iPad all the critics said it was just a big iPhone, it wouldn't catch on and Apple would lose their money.

If it wasn't for Apple's vision and risk taking I wonder how many of us today, actually would know what a Tablet computer was.

I could go on but I won't.

Pete:Cool:

Being first does not give you exclusivity. Otherwise only one manufacturer would be allowed to make cars, one manufacturer for TV's etc etc etc.
Competition is good for the consumer and Apple although first now want to pull the drawbridge up and prevent other companies competing. Believe me when I say this. Samsung may have been the first target but they are certainly not the last. Apple have something close to a religious fervour when it comes to anything Android. Samsung were the first target because they did copy a bit too closely and deserved to get sued. Job's war on Android has commenced.


PS: I have two apple devices in my van. I love them and think they are brilliant. However due to their recent bully boy tactics I will never buy from them again. They are the new Microsoft when it comes to anti competitive behaviour in the computer market place.

 

[Gromett]

I have just seen this and hadn't thought of it from this angle before.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/114476892281222708332/posts/246srfbqg6G


Another thing...
The UK court had a better view on it. The Judge basically told Apple to go away Samsung's gear is not cool enough to be mistaken for an Apple.

If Apple appeal they are basically telling the Judge that Samsung are as cool and the judge has slapped Samsung in the face.

 

[steveclecy]

Interesting and clearly well informed debate - I hope in good humour - that really defines the issues.

Apple have done some fantastic marketing and their fans are so loyal - they get customers queuing to purchase the latest update of their products at some considerable cost.

They seem determined to preserve the market share whatever it costs - and at the moment it is costing them nothing - in fact their protection is being paid for by Samsung!

I do think, though, that their (to me) bullying attitude may backfire on them. They may be polarising their potential customers.

Steve

 

[bungy]

I have just seen this and hadn't thought of it from this angle before.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/114476892281222708332/posts/246srfbqg6G


Another thing...
The UK court had a better view on it. The Judge basically told Apple to go away Samsung's gear is not cool enough to be mistaken for an Apple.

If Apple appeal they are basically telling the Judge that Samsung are as cool and the judge has slapped Samsung in the face.

brilliant! although i would say that...i like samsungs stuff..OMG does that mean i like apples stuff now as well...gawd

 

[GJH]

I have just seen this and hadn't thought of it from this angle before.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/114476892281222708332/posts/246srfbqg6G


Another thing...
The UK court had a better view on it. The Judge basically told Apple to go away Samsung's gear is not cool enough to be mistaken for an Apple.

If Apple appeal they are basically telling the Judge that Samsung are as cool and the judge has slapped Samsung in the face.

Samsung the same as Apple - but a fraction of the price Love it

BTW, I reckon that judge was wrong; Samsung are cooler than Apple

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[Pikey Pete]

Isn't debate great.:thumb:


I wanted to join my local Debating Society, but I got talked out of it.



Pete:Cool:

 

[Terry]

The Asus looks a nice bit of kit and don't forget they also make the new google nexus :thumb: on the other hand Samsung g/tee is for 2 yrs on all there products
terry

 

[capinpugwash]

I am not hijacking this thread but no matter which side of the Apple/Samsung fence you sit on I can highly recommend the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson as a great book.

Its has over 600 pages in hardback, and gives a fascinating insight into the man and Apple.

Apart from the story of Apple I also found it compelling from a management technique point of view!!

 

[Pikey Pete]

I am not hijacking this thread but no matter which side of the Apple/Samsung fence you sit on I can highly recommend the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson as a great book.

Its has over 600 pages in hardback, and gives a fascinating insight into the man and Apple.

Apart from the story of Apple I also found it compelling from a management technique point of view!!

You are hijacking the thread but you're right it is a great read. Steve Jobs was genius in his field, if not for him Apple Macintosh would be just a memory.

I did find the earlier comment that Job's war on Android has begun, a bit insulting to the memory of the man, but I let it pass.

Pete:Cool:

 

[Gromett]

I did find the earlier comment that Job's war on Android has begun, a bit insulting to the memory of the man, but I let it pass.

Pete:Cool:

So were are not allowed to state facts about a person when they are dead ?

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/steve-jobs-declared-thermonuclear-war-on-stolen-android-50005746/

The book is on my list of to reads....

I think he is an amazing guy and I do respect his eye for detail however he is a human being who had serious character flaws like the rest of us... His biggest was selective memory verging on hypocrisy.

I do remember an interesting anecdote about him though.

When engineers working on the very first iPod completed the prototype, they presented their work to Steve Jobs for his approval. Jobs played with the device, scrutinized it, weighed it in his hands, and promptly rejected it. It was too big.

The engineers explained that they had to reinvent inventing to create the iPod, and that it was simply impossible to make it any smaller. Jobs was quiet for a moment. Finally he stood, walked over to an aquarium, and dropped the iPod in the tank. After it touched bottom, bubbles floated to the top.


"Those are air bubbles," he snapped. "That means there's space in there. Make it smaller."

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