Swapping Wheels/Tyres Over

[enark]

I was told, many years ago, that swapping tyres over was OK, as long as it was only front to rear, and rear to front.

I think I spotted a post earlier in this thread in which somebody mentioned that he swapped his side to side ?

Maybe I imagined it ?

Nevertheless, with the introduction of radial ply tyres, and the phasing out of cross plies, in the late 60s, early 70s, swapping side to side was no longer recommended.

Sommat to do with the construction of the tyre relative to a 'set' that any radial takes on when run on a particular side of a vehicle for any length of time.

It's all related to 'angles'. Caster, camber, toe, steering axis inclination, and toe-out on turns.

These angles, cause a radial tyre to take on what can be referred to as a 'set', which, when the tyre is fitted on the opposing side of the axle, will cause a more noisy and uncomfortable ride. It could also lead to more rapid tyre wear.

It's only what I was told years ago, but I suppose it might be right.

Supposedly the construction of the cross ply tyres of old would not be affected, in the same way, if they were removed from one side of an axle and fitted on the the opposing side ?

I could be completely wrong here, but it makes for interesting discusion ?

You could swap side to side if you remove the tyre from the wheels. But if just moving the wheels around, then they would end up going backwards, if directional treads? Which would not be good for braking.

 

[A S R]

Just buy another new van. It’ll have nice shiny new tyres on it.

 

[Cidered]

In many cases age is more of a factor than wear. It is important to check; my tyres were manufactured two years before the van was registered. They weren’t showing signs of age: wear was still ok but I replaced them all after seven years which also allowed swap away from Michelin Camper tyres. Ride is so much better now.

 

[Pugsy]

My spare is out of date and the wrong size. Still works as a spare though. And that all I need.

Only recently got this van and the spare is brand new and 18 year old according to the date stamp do I change or do i stick. Answers on a postcard to !!!.

 

[Apacheman]

Just had first 2 year service with just shy of 20,000 miles.
Both front tyres are now at 5mm, and the rears are still at 7mm, which you would expect.
So, my question is:-
Do I swap wheels front to back, so in another 2 years time, the fronts will be down to around 4mm and the rears also around 4mm, assuming that they wear the same as in this two year period. Then can replace all 4 tyres shortly after that. ( don’t like to go below 3mm). Or, leave as is, and just replace the front two in 2 years time with the rears with still plenty of life in them?
I know tyre preferences are personal, but just interested to get other peoples preferences.
Thanks.

Ran my fronts to 3mm then swapped rear to front. Unused new spare plus one new tyre on the rear and one with 3mm kept as a spare. Only my choice but I’d rather only fork out for 2 tyres at a time. Sure others will disagree.

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[VXman]

I did exactly what the OP suggests. My fronts were not far off the legal limit - the rears were a lot better. I swapped them around so when the fronts are worn next time I can replace all 4. I want to change the type of tyre so doing all 4 at once makes sense.

 

[VXman]

I swap front to rear every year. The “specialist” will tell you best tyres should be on the rear. Which I don’t agree on if the difference isn’t massive. If you always have best on rear you will never be able to rotate tyres. As so you will throw away good rear tyres due to age and also run front tyres that are low on tread.
That’s my opinion as someone who was in motor trade, worked for a race teams, and heavily into four wheel drive, where tyres matter.

Depends on whether it's front or rear drive surely. On my 4350KG motorhome with all the weight at the back I need good grip at the front. It will often struggle for grip even with the best tyres on the front.

 

[VXman]

I think I spotted a post earlier in this thread in which somebody mentioned that he swapped his side to side ?

Well - if you drive around Milton Keynes all the time, with all the roundabouts, you probably will find one side wears quicker than the other.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Our spare is brand new, looks perfect but out of date. We wouldn't rotate in with tyre swap as it would put a brand new tyre on with a worn one.

If you we're unfortunate enough to suffer a side wall blowout on a tyre would you have to replace all the part worn tyres?
My spare is always the one with least tread at rotation time.
Mike.

 

[stuartholmes]

Me same as PeterCarole29..
However sure someone else be along soon and say bad idea because you need to have best tyres on rear...

Not terribly soon but here I am...

It's not my opinion though, I'm not telling anyone what to do with their tyres anymore than I'd tell them what to do with their used toilet paper but there are plenty of sources of tyre manufacturers and independant testers who explain and demonstrate that, counterintuitive as it may be, the correct place to put the best tyres IS on the back. viz:



Or if you don't like a young woman telling you what to do, here is a demonstration:



Or a hairy beardy guy with a longer explanation:



And plenty more if you search. Enjoy!

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[Rugbybull]

Do I need therapy ??

No you don’t need therapy, you just need to tread carefully!

 

[Northernraider]

Only recently got this van and the spare is brand new and 18 year old according to the date stamp do I change or do i stick. Answers on a postcard to !!!.View attachment 980016View attachment 980017View attachment 980018

N&b don't get punctures my spare was brand new and 20 years old too. Still had sticker on it

Good year cargo van tyre

 

[Kenp]

I was told, many years ago, that swapping tyres over was OK, as long as it was only front to rear, and rear to front.

I think I spotted a post earlier in this thread in which somebody mentioned that he swapped his side to side ?

Maybe I imagined it ?

Nevertheless, with the introduction of radial ply tyres, and the phasing out of cross plies, in the late 60s, early 70s, swapping side to side was no longer recommended.

Sommat to do with the construction of the tyre relative to a 'set' that any radial takes on when run on a particular side of a vehicle for any length of time.

It's all related to 'angles'. Caster, camber, toe, steering axis inclination, and toe-out on turns.

These angles, cause a radial tyre to take on what can be referred to as a 'set', which, when the tyre is fitted on the opposing side of the axle, will cause a more noisy and uncomfortable ride. It could also lead to more rapid tyre wear.

It's only what I was told years ago, but I suppose it might be right.

Supposedly the construction of the cross ply tyres of old would not be affected, in the same way, if they were removed from one side of an axle and fitted on the the opposing side ?

I could be completely wrong here, but it makes for interesting discusion ?

My car (see Avtar) is 85 and still on FWD cross-ply . The ride is horrible but the back end does not break away.

 

[Bertilak]

Two thoughts:
a) the tendency to lose the back end and oversteer will get worse as the back gets heavier, as with many mohos...
b) This only is an issue as you reach the limits of adhesion for the road conditions. When this is depends on the weather, the road surface, the vehicle dynamics (height of CofG, responsiveness of damping etc).

If you drive it like a pensioner, as many motorhomers do, and slow down further in the rain, you'd probably be ok with slicks on the back...
If you drive like a Amazon driver, perhaps you need perfect tyres on the back.

 

[gus-lopez]

I do like new tyres after about 6 years , do I need therapy ??

I like them changed when the 'newness' of the last set has gone or they get dirty.

If you drive like a Amazon driver, perhaps you need perfect tyres on the back.

This^^^^^^^^ me ^^^^

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[stuartholmes]

My car (see Avtar) is 85 and still on FWD cross-ply . The ride is horrible but the back end does not break away.

''FWD cross-ply'' ? sorry but what's that?

(ps. nice car!)

 

[Kenp]

''FWD cross-ply'' ? sorry but what's that?

(ps. nice car!)

Thanks, it should have read "My car (see Avtar) is 85 and still on four cross-ply and is Front Wheel Drive. The ride is horrible but the back end does not break away."

 

[lanman42]

I did the front to back earlier this year . My management will tell you I like good tyres, they're one of the main things keeping you out of the hedges. 5 year old van and they'll get dumped next year for a new set . Only 12000 miles so far but I do like new tyres after about 6 years , do I need therapy ??

Not therapy. Just a good wallet!

 

[TwistNShout]

I retorque the wheels on the lorries when they have a tyre changed and regularly find 1 or 2 loose nuts but have never had to retorque the 4x4.s or the vans

I've had nuts work loose on the MH after about 30 miles, they were finger tight when we stopped! I'd stood there and watched the guy torque them on, so no idea what happened.

Also once had the same happen on a car, many years ago.

Never going to either tyre place again.

 

[TwistNShout]

N&b don't get punctures my spare was brand new and 20 years old too. Still had sticker on it

Good year cargo van tyre

Our spare was also 20 years old, campervan tyre that I assume was original. As the road tyres on the van were 10 years old we had them all replaced and one of them moved to the spare.

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[Tasng4]

Just had first 2 year service with just shy of 20,000 miles.
Both front tyres are now at 5mm, and the rears are still at 7mm, which you would expect.
So, my question is:-
Do I swap wheels front to back, so in another 2 years time, the fronts will be down to around 4mm and the rears also around 4mm, assuming that they wear the same as in this two year period. Then can replace all 4 tyres shortly after that. ( don’t like to go below 3mm). Or, leave as is, and just replace the front two in 2 years time with the rears with still plenty of life in them?
I know tyre preferences are personal, but just interested to get other peoples preferences.
Thanks.

Do you have tyre pressure monitors? If so you'll have to note which ones are where.

 

[stuartholmes]

Thanks, it should have read "My car (see Avtar) is 85 and still on four cross-ply and is Front Wheel Drive. The ride is horrible but the back end does not break away."

No wonder google didn't help!!!

 

[stuartholmes]

I've had nuts work loose on the MH after about 30 miles, they were finger tight when we stopped! I'd stood there and watched the guy torque them on, so no idea what happened.

Also once had the same happen on a car, many years ago.

Never going to either tyre place again.

I was once driving on country lane behind a car where we presume loose nuts is exactly what had happened.
For a half mile or so the nearside back wheel wobbled with stadily increasing enthusiasm as I struggled with how to attract the driver's attention (short of a speedy overtake & screech to a halt in front of him, which I judged too risky!).
Then I watched as the wheel came right off and both it and the car continued down the road like a dancing couple before the wheel crossed over behind the car then, as the car slowed, overtook it on the other side of the road & then airborne as it hit & climbed a hedge on it's way to the far end of somebody's field.
All made worse by the fact that the driver and I were co-workers on a children's summer camp taking our little ones to the seaside... Crammed into the cars I think we had nearly twenty children between us & two other adults. Bench seats at the front, small children so some standing & some sitting on knees in the back... Different times!

Upshot being, I'm with you on checking wheel nuts & by virtue of that was saved from one of my own coming off when I had my Smart alloys refurbished. Wasn't going back there anyway but definitely not after that!

 

[Just smiffy]

Regardless of what tyres you have where and what, if they are reasonable tyres and you lose the back end or front end you are not driving to the conditions and it’s your own fault….

 

[stuartholmes]

Regardless of what tyres you have where and what, if they are reasonable tyres and you lose the back end or front end you are not driving to the conditions and it’s your own fault….

Or the fault of the dude that pulls into your lane causing the need to take sudden unplanned evasive action...

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[Just smiffy]

Or the fault of the dude that pulls into your lane causing the need to take sudden unplanned evasive action...

Your fault for not seeing it coming…