Supermarket Fuel vs Premium Diesel

[Bailey 15]

Who only uses premium diesel rather than ordinary diesel?
Any difference do you think ?

Who don’t buy their fuel from supermarkets ?

Just a thought as recovery guy said he wouldn’t touch supermarkets fuel

 

[Silver-Fox]

These fuels have higher octane/cetane numbers and are well suited for high performance vehicles which is their main market

A mate of mine has a tasty BMW 5 series.
He has to run on the “better” petrol as he says the car doesn’t run properly on the cheaper fuel.

Exactly as you said.

 

[Plynchy]

I’ve owned lots of silly cars, manufacturers spec is 98ron or above. Never had an issue using Tesco 99, ever.

 

[ericonabike]

From my son, who's been in the motor trade since leaving school and is now head of international diagnostics at a, well-known luxury car brand...

"It’s all the same stuff basically. Biggest benefit over standard is the higher cetane rating that can provide better combustion, but chances of anyone ever actually recognizing are nill. Otherwise it’s down to the blend of detergents and additives they put in the premium fuel. But again, if anyone has ever actually proved that they had needed those detergents and additives in the average life span of a car I’d be amazed. The same people that will only use premium will also avoid supermarket fuel I expect , because it’s ‘bad’ they will say…"

 

[The Wino]

Why not get your other half to fill up and not say if they are filling with premium or standard and see if there's a difference. My money would be on no one being able to tell

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[Carpmart]

I’ve owned lots of silly cars, manufacturers spec is 98ron or above. Never had an issue using Tesco 99, ever.

Agree… although I had two different tunes on my last M5, VPower and Momentum 99 as you could get a bit more out of the higher octane…

 

[Carpmart]

I have to say, reading all the replies to this thread really do make me chuckle.

Who’d have thought fuel would be such an emotive combustible subject!

 

[Barriesimpson]

I put the 'top' petrol in the Jag and don't notice any power increase (but I don't race it either), however, it does do more miles to the gallon so the higher price is cancelled out.

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

My Audi RS6 only ever got the cheapest supermarket fuel and always drove perfectly, never measured its 0-60 as it always blew my socks off, maybe i was loosing 0.05 of second. A colleague had 3 RS6's and always put the posh stuff in and then traded them in at year / 18 months old, didn't see the point in that, had mine 2.5 years. Motorhome only gets supermarket or maybe standard Shell diesel once a year at home an whatever they chuck in when I. France/ Spain/ Portugal

 

[enark]

I love motorhome fun to death but these supermarket fuel threads are such a waste of time. It turns out everyone has their secret formula: avoid like the plague .. driven a million miles with no problems .. recovery guy said avoid (!!) .. detergents... but NO DATA at all. Just opinion, and speculation, and this is what happened to my auntie.
Bottom line is that nobody is selling you diesel that doesn't work. I have run maybe 15 vehicles over the years on supermarket diesel with no problems at all.
If it worries you, try one of the magic redex lookalikes or similar. But only when Capricorn is in Virgo, or it won't work ;-)
"Real science" not often seen hereabouts!

You miss the point, supermarkets are ripping you off to 10-20p a ltre, thats why i avoid, nowt to do with the iffs and buts of the diesel really

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[Scubagas]

Who only uses premium diesel rather than ordinary diesel?
Any difference do you think ?

Who don’t buy their fuel from supermarkets ?

Just a thought as recovery guy said he wouldn’t touch supermarkets fuel

Got any real science to back that up? You do know that it all has to meet a strict standard and high-end chemical analysis shows no difference between the fuels except for a few additives dreamed up by the big oil marketing people...........

If supermarket fuel is crap as you allege then answer these questions:

1) Given that most fuel sold is via non franchised/brand outlets, then why are the roads of the UK and beyond not littered with broken down vehicles
2) Why aren't trading standards crawling all over the blenders and sellers of the fuel?
3) Why are there no reports in the press of class actions or even individual cases taken against the distributors for substandard fuel (apart from a couple of very isolated cases)
4) If the fuel is so crap then why is most of it from the same blendstock as branded fuel and often even from the same tankage
5) ALL fuels sold in UK and Europe is required by law to meet either EN 228 (gasoline) or EN 590 (diesel oil) and this standard is heavily tested by both the fuel and engine manufacturers using independent testing agencies such as SGS (my old employer) using real world fuel sampled at random from fuel stations in major programmes.

Science, no. Experience of very P***ed off diesel drivers with huge bills, yes. Car manufacturers always have a questionnaire to fill in when there are potential warranty claims. Almost all regularly use supermarket diesel. if you take a sample of each, the branded looks like your first wee of the day, supermarkets look like the last.
These forums ask for opinions, I gave mine. If it is heeded or ignored doesn't worry me.

 

[enark]

It's nearer 7p a litre now (at least in the Southampton branch). Costco aren't actually that cheap for food stuffs - they attract people by pretending to be a cash and carry, selling stuff in bulk and offering the opportunity to buy your monthly shop, a mature olive tree and a hang-glider under the same roof - but whenever I've wandered around checking prices against Tesco or Asda on their Apps, they win on price on a lot of products - and don't charge a membership fee. We buy fuel and the occasional rotisserie chicken from Costco. The chickens are definitely a loss-leader, I suspect their fuel is close to being another one.

but isnt that supposed to be the supermarkets tactic.

When fuel prices went upto £2 a litre,it was £1.80 at costco. So clearly somebody is ripping us off eh?

 

[The Wino]

Science, no. Experience of very P***ed off diesel drivers with huge bills, yes. Car manufacturers always have a questionnaire to fill in when there are potential warranty claims. Almost all regularly use supermarket diesel. if you take a sample of each, the branded looks like your first wee of the day, supermarkets look like the last.
These forums ask for opinions, I gave mine. If it is heeded or ignored doesn't worry me.

But what makes you think that the majority of people filling in warranty claims use supermarket diesel because the majority of all motorists use supermarket diesel? I've never heard of manufacturers suing supermarkets because they are supplying inferior diesel and it's causing problems. To me it's a bit like charging our EV on peak rate electric rather than off peak because it must be better as it costs more!

 

[TinaLes]

I cant count the number of times this Premium V Economy Fuel debate comes up on Fun, at least once/twice a year so far, and we get so many different views, just like the tyre debacle that we probably end up between a rock & a hard place in making a decision, so inevitable we tend to stick to what we feel we know, and carry on.
Well I have thanks to your views just sustained a 45 minute "Expert" review from two Guys on You Tube, the second of which is called Lake and has used his contacts in the US fuel supply industry to perform some in depth lab tests on half a dozen off the shelf diesel fuel additive and their Lab Test Results. I know feel like a Geek, knowing more about Cetane values & improved Lubricity to help diesel pump wear, along with injector detergents and improved EGR and DPF cleansing.
The test results did show the difference between the cheaper and expensive additives, so like most things. the more you spend the better the product. Unfortunately the best product does not seem readily available here in the UK.
To save you being bored to death, just jump in at 13 minutes in and see the Lab test performed along with the results which I am glad I didnt pay for.
Good Luck.
LES

Sorry guys it wont load up, telling us that the Video has been taken down by the owner, probably as it was too long and too boring!
However the top performing Diesel Fuel additive was Opti-Lube XPD, second closest was Archers, but it does push the price up each gallon of fuel by 5/10P so you can decide whether with our generally low annual mileage vehicles its worth it to keep our fuel systems cleaner over time.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Science, no. Experience of very P***ed off diesel drivers with huge bills, yes. Car manufacturers always have a questionnaire to fill in when there are potential warranty claims. Almost all regularly use supermarket diesel. if you take a sample of each, the branded looks like your first wee of the day, supermarkets look like the last.
These forums ask for opinions, I gave mine. If it is heeded or ignored doesn't worry me.

So no scientific evidence then…..and never answered the questions either

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[DuxDeluxe]

I cant count the number of times this Premium V Economy Fuel debate comes up on Fun, at least once/twice a year so far, and we get so many different views, just like the tyre debacle that we probably end up between a rock & a hard place in making a decision, so inevitable we tend to stick to what we feel we know, and carry on.
Well I have thanks to your views just sustained a 45 minute "Expert" review from two Guys on You Tube, the second of which is called Lake and has used his contacts in the US fuel supply industry to perform some in depth lab tests on half a dozen off the shelf diesel fuel additive and their Lab Test Results. I know feel like a Geek, knowing more about Cetane values & improved Lubricity to help diesel pump wear, along with injector detergents and improved EGR and DPF cleansing.
The test results did show the difference between the cheaper and expensive additives, so like most things. the more you spend the better the product. Unfortunately the best product does not seem readily available here in the UK.
To save you being bored to death, just jump in at 13 minutes in and see the Lab test performed along with the results which I am glad I didnt pay for.
Good Luck.
LES

US fuel is manufactured considerably different standards. Lubricity is key - lubricity improvers have to be added since they reduced the sulphur levels, and yes, lab tests at this level cost a fortune.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

diesel. if you take a sample of each, the branded looks like your first wee of the day, supermarkets look like the last

Have done that many, many times and witnessed many hundreds of tests. The only fuel that looks different in my experience is VPower, for the reasons stated earlier. How can it be different if it all from the same blendstock and often from the same tanks?

My last word on this debate.

 

[dunnah01]

Our little Smart car has a 175bhp/litre engine and even though the manufacturers say use 98RON they can do one as it's never available around here so gets 95RON and runs perfectly

 

[meanders]

I worked for a hypermarket group for over a quarter of a century, and we were frequently accused in the press of selling poor quality fuel. Trading Standards in SW London did get involved on one occasion and took away samples for testing the net result was for 4 star petrol and diesel the lab could not detect anything negative between the fuel taken unannounced from our PFS in that area, and that from the local Shell, BP and Esso stations. Indeed the only thing they detected that would have any effect on the vehicle was that the diesel from us was in better condition than that taken from two of the other stations that they said was probably as a result of the throughput in the tanks.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Always used the cheapest and the engine has run sweetly for 41,000 miles

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[Carpmart]

Our little Smart car has a 175bhp/litre engine and even though the manufacturers say use 98RON they can do one as it's never available around here so gets 95RON and runs perfectly

How do you know it runs perfectly?

High Performance cars (especially forced induction cars) dynamically change maps based on fuel grade, well more specifically, they are responding to what’s coming out of the exhaust (relative to what’s entering) to counteract pinking, knocking, pre ignition… you want your bang to be at the correct point of the squeeze stroke, higher octane fuel helps this.

Your Smart (Brabus?) will likely dynamically map too, knock/O2 sensor will see the lower resistance to pre ignition and modify timing accordingly.

If your car says 98+, I don’t get why you’d run it on lower octane fuel?

 

[bigwood]

The tanker that delivers to Sainsbury’s also delivers to the Jet garage near us but the cheapest diesel is Jet on the A180.
Part of my pre MOT routine is to put fuel system cleaner in along with topping up with shell or BP premium diesel to help with emissions. Any other time I try and find cheaper diesel using fuel prices app. Using Sainsburys gives us nectar points.

 

[swemmy666]

But I don't qualify and it's 3 gallons of fuel to our nearest Costco and back

but you only drive you MH in your local district?

 

[dunnah01]

How do you know it runs perfectly?

High Performance cars (especially forced induction cars) dynamically change maps based on fuel grade, well more specifically, they are responding to what’s coming out of the exhaust (relative to what’s entering) to counteract pinking, knocking, pre ignition… you want your bang to be at the correct point of the squeeze stroke, higher octane fuel helps this.

Your Smart (Brabus?) will likely dynamically map too, knock/O2 sensor will see the lower resistance to pre ignition and modify timing accordingly.

If your car says 98+, I don’t get why you’d run it on lower octane fuel?

There's nothing in the Merc diagnostics showing anything untoward. If I could get 98RON I'd probably use it but more often than not it's got the yellow plastic tag of doom on the pump nozzle

 

[Simon Y]

Who only uses premium diesel rather than ordinary diesel?
Any difference do you think ?

Who don’t buy their fuel from supermarkets ?

Just a thought as recovery guy said he wouldn’t touch supermarkets fuel

Dependent on your diesel engine it can be useful to fill every 5 or so fills will a premium diesel.

Re the old hilarious chestnut of “I never buy supermarket fuel cos it’s a lower quality”. Wrong! The UKs fuel industry is very very highly regulated

Who only uses premium diesel rather than ordinary diesel?
Any difference do you think ?

Who don’t buy their fuel from supermarkets ?

Just a thought as recovery guy said he wouldn’t touch supermarkets fuel

The UK’s fuel industry is very very highly regulated. There are two types of diesel for non-agricultural vehicles: regular diesel (low sulphur) and premium diesel. (If you’re thinking about red disel, you’re very naughty, and definitely do not do it!). Depending on your diesel engine, it can be useful to fill with premium diesel every 5 or 6 fills, but it’s by no means a requirement, and most folk (including me) can happily run for thousands of miles on regular diesel.

Now…. the old regularly occurring, and mildly hilarious old chestnut of “I never use supermarket diesel ‘cos it’s got loads of stuff in it/not the same quality/make up another random reason”…… absolute tosh!! In the UK, when you buy regular diesel or premium diesel at Costco, Morrisons, Tebay Services, my local garage, or anywhere, then it is exactly the same diesel. It’s only simple economics and buying power which enables different retailers to sell each of the two varieties of diesel at different prices.

Hope this helps.

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[dunnah01]

but you only drive you MH in your local district?

No - most miles are over the water where fuel is cheaper than Costco anyway

 

[B_Bogus]

To throw another spanner into the discussion, how many funsters can say their fuel tanks have never had water condensate contamination - or more to the point have had supermarket fuel to blame for other contamination issues?
Even the best professional mechanics don't routinely take fuel samples to the lab - or do they?
If not it's just idle speculation, surely?

Our MH doesn't get used over winter, and we keep a full tank all the time. draining the water trap is something I need to get into my schedule.

On the subject of octane; I have an Impreza P1 and the additional knock sensors & det counter are considered more than just a 'nice to have'. Japanese fuel is 100 octane, and Shell V-Power is as good as we can hope for. Prodrive did a lot of research on the ECU mapping since they were essentially a Japanese Domestic Market car, modified for our appalling roads and sketchy 99 RON fuel availability

 

[Daffy64]

Science, no. Experience of very P***ed off diesel drivers with huge bills, yes. Car manufacturers always have a questionnaire to fill in when there are potential warranty claims. Almost all regularly use supermarket diesel. if you take a sample of each, the branded looks like your first wee of the day, supermarkets look like the last.
These forums ask for opinions, I gave mine. If it is heeded or ignored doesn't worry

But what makes you think that the majority of people filling in warranty claims use supermarket diesel because the majority of all motorists use supermarket diesel? I've never heard of manufacturers suing supermarkets because they are supplying inferior diesel and it's causing problems. To me it's a bit like charging our EV on peak rate electric rather than off peak because it must be better as it costs more!

Manufacturers don’t need to sue the supermarkets, it’s good business rejecting warranty claims as the customer still needs their vehicle fixing but the dealer usually gets paid more by the customer than by warranty. Mainly these issues develop slowly so it’s difficult to pin it down to a particular tank full of fuel - where it can be there will be multiple shouts and the fuel companies quickly and quietly sort it out- it doesn’t happen often but it does occasionally happen.

The best way to understand fuel is by comparing it to a pizza, in terms of diesel EN 590 is a basic pizza, it ticks all the boxes for anyone to accept it’s a pizza - you can then add toppings to it to make it what you want it to be, people would still call it a pizza if asked.

Fuel is the same, the basic EN590 fuel from the refinery is your cheese and tomato pizza, the extra toppings are the additives that the retailers put in at the loading gantry. These improve on the minimum standard to help reduce carbon build up, improve lubricity etc etc.

Supermarkets buy fuel to sell and create an impression of value similar to the pricing of bread and milk, they buy their fuel on price only so you usually get the basic cheese and tomato version - like your cheese and tomato pizza, there’s nothing wrong with it but you might want more, if you do then you have to put your hand in your pocket.

There are always those that say they’ve ran their cars on chip fat for millions of miles, one things for sure, they aren’t driving Euro 5 or 6 spec diesels…

As to science, there’s lots of research been done but no one is going to publish that on an internet forum.

One thing is for sure, fuel is an extremely complex business, the last time I bought the EN590 spec I seem to remember it runs to about 180 pages although I might be thinking of something else.

What do I use, personally I tend to stay with normal fuel from branded suppliers whose main business is fuel as any repetitional damage is a disaster rather than those that sell fuel in addition to their main business, although I will use supermarket fuel occasionally as long as it’s not going to sit in my tank for months.

What do I recommend, anything you’re happy using including chip fat as I’m not funding the repair bill, as they say ‘you pays your money and take your choice’

 

[Daffy64]

To throw another spanner into the discussion, how many funsters can say their fuel tanks have never had water condensate contamination - or more to the point have had supermarket fuel to blame for other contamination issues?
Even the best professional mechanics don't routinely take fuel samples to the lab - or do they?
If not it's just idle speculation, surely?

Our MH doesn't get used over winter, and we keep a full tank all the time. draining the water trap is something I need to get into my schedule.

On the subject of octane; I have an Impreza P1 and the additional knock sensors & det counter are considered more than just a 'nice to have'. Japanese fuel is 100 octane, and Shell V-Power is as good as we can hope for. Prodrive did a lot of research on the ECU mapping since they were essentially a Japanese Domestic Market car, modified for our appalling roads and sketchy 99 RON fuel availability

The bio element is basically water based so the water separates out over time, the best advice is have premium fuel in your tank when you park it for any length of time as it’s less prone to water separation.

Garages probably don’t regularly test fuel samples but manufacturers will do it regularly, cost depends on what their looking for so that’s always a factor.

 

[Birty]

My brother in law rebuilds diesel engines for a living! He reports that there is no noticeable difference with cheap/expensive diesel. That said he notices the difference with petrol engines! I wont buy cheap supermarket diesel though as convinced I get more mpg! Odd tank of supreme now and again gotta help though!

Who only uses premium diesel rather than ordinary diesel?
Any difference do you think ?

Who don’t buy their fuel from supermarkets ?

Just a thought as recovery guy said he wouldn’t touch supermarket for a

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[LittleGreyCat]

Honest John

Who agrees that there is no reason to use a diesel additive unless it just makes you feel happy.