Stray Russian missile kills 2 in Poland

[Gingernuts]

Oops

 

[Silver-Fox]

We need a strong well stocked military capability to keep China's ambitions in check.

They aren’t stupid enough to take over Countries by force.

They are and will continue to do it by stealth.
Just look to the African continent among others.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

They aren’t stupid enough to take over Countries by force.

They are and will continue to do it by stealth.
Just look to the African continent among others.

And Europe, if they stop supplying we are stuck.
I agree economic 'help' road building for mineral rights etc has been a good tactic for them.
At the same time they have lots of muscle and have a huge sophisticated military for a reason.
A lot of our current military budget and planning is based on their capabilities, that's a fact.

 

[Guigsy]

They aren’t stupid enough to take over Countries by force.

They are and will continue to do it by stealth.
Just look to the African continent among others.

They feel Taiwan is part of China. But Taiwan disagrees.

And Taiwan produces the majority of the world's chips for everything from military components to car control units to TV remotes.

 

[cyberyacht]

Zelensky is still quite insistent that it's not one of theirs. Are NATO and Poland using the current story to avoid having to make an unpalatable decision? If Mad Vlad knows it's one of his then inaction by NATO will merely embolden him. Never mind parking the Gerald R Ford in the Solent. Now might be a good time for it to make a goodwill visit to Tallinn and Helsinki. Give that bunch of rectal orifices in the Kremlin something to ponder.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[rangi]

Is it, or is it that nobody wants a nuclear war and if Nato gets involved that's where it'll be heading so diplomacy has prevailed

I'd think Nato is happy to accept this version of events and the Kremlin will be happy they're not going to get invaded but worried the supply of western weapons to the Ukrainians will now step into overdrive

Yeh in spite of Ukraine denials Both US, Poland, Germany have accepted it IS one of theirs..

Article 4 discussed in the G20 summit among NATO members that are there, full group discussion to be arranged

If it was found out to be a rocket fired by the russians (which it wasn't thought to be) then Ukraine would want Long Range Missiles , "Aggressive Missiles" rather than the "Defensive" stuff their allies are supplying now.

 

[rangi]

Still not confirmed investigations ongoing I believe.

tiz now Article 4 discussion soon

 

[monzer]

If it was the Russians what would you consider to be an appropriate response?

As harsh as it sounds it was only 2 people who lost their lives. All the usual acts of retaliation for those circumstances have already been used up with sanctions etc since the war started.

Been a bit of talk about the Russian Black Sea fleet being a potential target but sinking a ship is a disproportionate response.

As hard to take as it is, if it was the Russians, NATO have probably chose the right option in my view.

 

[Pausim]

Whoever fired it, it was a mistake not a deliberate act. Not worth starting the Third World War over a stupid mistake.

 

[Spriddler]

Whoever fired it, it was a mistake not a deliberate act. Not worth starting the Third World War over a stupid mistake.

Indeed so. It seemed to me that it was the media that stirred up the furore.
Early on I heard a sensible ex senior military guy say that there was a saying in the forces 'Never believe first reports'.
Sady, in every conflict people are killed by errors and 'friendly' fire.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cyberyacht]

If it was the Russians what would you consider to be an appropriate response?

As harsh as it sounds it was only 2 people who lost their lives. All the usual acts of retaliation for those circumstances have already been used up with sanctions etc since the war started.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the "War of Jenkin's ear"

 

[Pausim]

I refer the honourable gentleman to the "War of Jenkin's ear"

If NATO wanted to escalate the conflict they probably don’t need a Jenkins’ Ear incident to stir up public feeling. Most of us are already outraged by the Russian invasion and mounting catalogue of war crimes. However you make an interesting point that small incidents can be used to disguise real motives i.e. naming a war about protecting the slave trade by naming it after a Captain who had his ear cut off by the Spanish Coast Guard. Hopefully we are some way from escalating the current conflict to a Pan European War called the Polish Farmhouse War.

 

[ChrisL]

I know this is old news now but if you check the latitude of Kyiv and the longitude of Lviv you'll find the place where the missile landed in Poland, so almost certainly a mistake by a Russian fire control officer reading off a list of targets and mixing up the coordinates.

 

[HarryML7]

I know this is old news now but if you check the latitude of Kyiv and the longitude of Lviv you'll find the place where the missile landed in Poland, so almost certainly a mistake by a Russian fire control officer reading off a list of targets and mixing up the coordinates.

From what I read, Its is accepted by the Polish Govt that after examination of the missile debris that the missile orginated in Ukraine.

 

[ChrisL]

From what I read, Its is accepted by the Polish Govt that after examination of the missile debris that the missile orginated in Ukraine.

I think that's most likely a political decision in order to keep NATO from having to get involved, Ukraine are adamant it wasn't one of theirs and as they weren't allowed to examine the site i'm inclined to believe them. Just my opinion though, it's unlikely we'll ever know for certain.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[poppycamper]

I think that's most likely a political decision in order to keep NATO from having to get involved, Ukraine are adamant it wasn't one of theirs and as they weren't allowed to examine the site i'm inclined to believe them. Just my opinion though, it's unlikely we'll ever know for certain.

Agreed

 

[Silver-Fox]

Ukraine are adamant it wasn't one of theirs and as they weren't allowed to examine the site

Why not allow the Ukraine to examine the site, they arnt exactly a foe of Poland.

It doesn’t sit well does it.

 

[HarryML7]

Why not allow the Ukraine to examine the site, they arnt exactly a foe of Poland.

It doesn’t sit well does it.

FROM "Notes from Poland website"

Investigators from Ukraine have visited the site in Poland where a missile landed earlier this week, causing the death of two people. They joined Polish and American experts seeking to ascertain the nature and cause of the incident.

Initial, unofficial reports identified the strike as being by a missile fired by Russia. But, subsequently, the Polish, US and NATO authorities announced that it was most likely caused by Ukrainian air defence systems responding to Russia’s mass wave of attacks on Ukraine on Tuesday.

 

[Silver-Fox]

FROM "Notes from Poland website"

Investigators from Ukraine have visited the site in Poland where a missile landed earlier this week, causing the death of two people. They joined Polish and American experts seeking to ascertain the nature and cause of the incident.

Initial, unofficial reports identified the strike as being by a missile fired by Russia. But, subsequently, the Polish, US and NATO authorities announced that it was most likely caused by Ukrainian air defence systems responding to Russia’s mass wave of attacks on Ukraine on Tuesday.

If that’s the case why is the Ukraine saying it’s not one of theirs

Most odd

 

[ChrisL]

FROM "Notes from Poland website"

Investigators from Ukraine have visited the site in Poland where a missile landed earlier this week, causing the death of two people. They joined Polish and American experts seeking to ascertain the nature and cause of the incident.

Initial, unofficial reports identified the strike as being by a missile fired by Russia. But, subsequently, the Polish, US and NATO authorities announced that it was most likely caused by Ukrainian air defence systems responding to Russia’s mass wave of attacks on Ukraine on Tuesday.

Thank you for updating us on this, I was unaware that Ukraine had been given access now. As both sides use the same missiles i'm sure it will be difficult to be sure who's missile it was unless serial numbers can be identified from the wreckage, but I think it remains the case that it's politically expedient for NATO to claim that it was a Ukrainian missile that missed it's target rather then a Russian one that was miss programmed. It's also worth remembering that Russia's S300's are modified to operate in a surface to surface mode and Ukrainian one's are operated in surface to air mode where they use proximity fuses, so unless it was faulty it should have exploded in the air once it got close enough to an incoming Russian missile.