Stopping distance of a motorhome

[BusyBuilder]

We are in litigation with a young lad who pulled out in front of us on a slip road on the A9.

The solicitor wants to know that stopping distance of a 4t Hymer B544 2012, on wet roads.

Basically this young lad pulled out on us and I had to stand on the brakes before we hit him. There wasn't a lot of damage to his car but over £5k to ours, bent inner steel bumper and bent both radiators. Front fibreglass grill was split but not much more, in fact you'd be hard pressed to see any damage looking at the front. His 2005 Vauxhall Corsa had a hole in his bumper where our towing eye punched through it, but not much more.

The accident happened just before Christmas 2023, wet roads with snow on verges. We had very little time to react. We were travelling at an indicated 50mph. I think we had about 15-20m to stop.

So if anyone can give me an idea on stopping distances I'd be interested.

What's really annoying about this accident, is, we are doing all the work for the benefit of Saga insurance who paid out over £5k for our damages. Saga dragged their heels for almost a year before we insisted we used our legal expenses insurance to fight our case. They have basically washed their hands now and left us to do all the work, the solicitor is a bit of a wet blanket too.
I would never recommend Saga insurance going by our claims experiences.

 

[dunnah01]

Send the solicitor in to a tail spin and ask them what tyre pressures should be used to determine the stopping distance

 

[Nanniemate]

Tank slapper is a motorbike reference.

Oh don't bring motorbikes into it as well

 

[Coolcats]

I don't mean to be disrespectful but, IMO you are desperately trying to justify your statement about variable stopping distances because, why do they publish how fast a vehicle can get UP to 60mph but not, how quickly it can stop DOWN from that speed and, as for creating a false sense of safety, that bird has flown with the compulsory fitting of seatbelts.

I understand what yo are saying, and hear what you are saying about the perception of creating a false sense of safety regarding seatbelts airbags etc even with a 5 or 6 point harness and full face helmet I personally don't feel any safer, if I roll or hit something its going to hurt (or worse) !

Of course we can make special, limited manufactured vehicles with excessive, even dangerous, braking ( who want to suffer G force braking) but we were talking about mass production cars and trucks, not one offs.

Performance cars Lotus, Porsch, Ferrari etc are production cars

I repeat, why do Car manufacturers boast and promote 0 - 60mph figures and not 60 - 0 figures IF they are variable?
To many people, SAFETY would be an important buying option!

because thats the way it is, Brakes are safe

I know my Ducatto cannot stop in the distance the Lotus can or probably the Transporter, ( mind you I wouldn't want to I don't want the tomato soup on the back of my head or the windscreen

Why dont the manufacturers publish stopping distances..maybe legal consequences

 

[Coolcats]

Oh don't bring motorbikes into it as well

Pleeeese Bikers are totally nuts

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[Silver-Fox]

If people would just read the Highway Code Book, it states that if you are joining a carriageway from a slip road and it is not clear to procede onto the carriageway, you MUST stop as the dotted lines also mean you MUST treat it as a GIVE WAY.

Isn’t that what I said effectively as have most on here.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick

Along with you shouldn’t emerge onto a road if it causes a vehicle already travelling on that road to alter its course or speed.

 

[our poppy llll]

We are in litigation with a young lad who pulled out in front of us on a slip road on the A9.

The solicitor wants to know that stopping distance of a 4t Hymer B544 2012, on wet roads.

Basically this young lad pulled out on us and I had to stand on the brakes before we hit him. There wasn't a lot of damage to his car but over £5k to ours, bent inner steel bumper and bent both radiators. Front fibreglass grill was split but not much more, in fact you'd be hard pressed to see any damage looking at the front. His 2005 Vauxhall Corsa had a hole in his bumper where our towing eye punched through it, but not much more.

The accident happened just before Christmas 2023, wet roads with snow on verges. We had very little time to react. We were travelling at an indicated 50mph. I think we had about 15-20m to stop.

So if anyone can give me an idea on stopping distances I'd be interested.

What's really annoying about this accident, is, we are doing all the work for the benefit of Saga insurance who paid out over £5k for our damages. Saga dragged their heels for almost a year before we insisted we used our legal expenses insurance to fight our case. They have basically washed their hands now and left us to do all the work, the solicitor is a bit of a wet blanket too.
I would never recommend Saga insurance going by our claims experiences.

First you need to change your narrative. Stop saying you “hit him”, or the word “accident” use the terminology of “the claimant”, “the incident” etc, by the sounds of it you need to say: “the claimant entered the main road from the left hand side, the road the claimant was positioned on was a “give way” approach road, the claimant did not “give way” and entered the road directly in front of my vehicle, which was travelling at the speed limit or just under the speed limit. The claimants vehicle collided with my own vehicle even though I was braking hard in order to avoid the incident, the claimant seemingly made an error of judgement and caused our vehicles to impact”.
“My vehicle is serviced as per manufacturers recommendations and under goes MOT inspections as required, its brakes are within the required service for its safe and intended use. Should the claimant wish to have an independent organisation inspect my vehicles brake system at their own cost I am willing to make my vehicle available”.
Finally you need to state firmly that “this claim made against my insurance cover is suspicious and as the claimant is clearly at fault by failing to obey the give way nature of entering a major road from a joining side road, it begs the question of why a claim is being made and I ask that the claim be investigated fully for any potential fraud”.
I bet the claimant withdraws very quickly,
Further it is your right to change the solicitor acting on your behalf. If your solicitor is unwilling to defend your case, change solicitors.
Tell saga you are dissatisfied with the law firm they have chosen and advise them you wish to find an alternative supplier.
To win a court case is not hard as long as you show authority.

 

[L' Hobo]

I understand what yo are saying, and hear what you are saying about the perception of creating a false sense of safety regarding seatbelts airbags etc even with a 5 or 6 point harness and full face helmet I personally don't feel any safer, if I roll or hit something its going to hurt (or worse) !

Performance cars Lotus, Porsch, Ferrari etc are production cars

because thats the way it is, Brakes are safe

I know my Ducatto cannot stop in the distance the Lotus can or probably the Transporter, ( mind you I wouldn't want to I don't want the tomato soup on the back of my head or the windscreen

Why dont the manufacturers publish stopping distances..maybe legal consequences

I think I wrote, MASS produced cars, Ferrari, Porsche and Lotus can hardly be described as such?

 

[Silver-Fox]

PS. Tanker trailor's are designed with compartments and baffles to reduce liquid surge!

Anyone that’s towed a 3.5 gvw trailer and the brakes are a bit iffy will associate with the above.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I understand what yo are saying, and hear what you are saying about the perception of creating a false sense of safety regarding seatbelts airbags etc even with a 5 or 6 point harness and full face helmet I personally don't feel any safer, if I roll or hit something its going to hurt (or worse) !

I feel a lot safer sitting in a car wearing a 4 point harness.

And even safer if the car has a full cage in it.

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[stuartholmes]

So where am I going to find which of these has the shortest stopping distance and therefore the safest?

It'll be the Evora. Wonder who I can get to do the camper conversion...

 

[Coolcats]

I think I wrote, MASS produced cars, Ferrari, Porsche and Lotus can hardly be described as such?

You may be surprised

Porsche delivers 155,945 vehicles in the first half of the year

09/07/2024
In the year of product launches, Porsche maintains stable sales in the first half of 2024: a total of 155,945 vehicles were handed over to customers worldwide between January and June.

Porsche delivers 155,945 vehicles in the first half of the year

In the year of product launches, Porsche maintains stable sales in the first half of 2024: a total of 155,945 vehicles were handed over to customers worldwide between January and June.

newsroom.porsche.com

 

[L' Hobo]

You may be surprised

Porsche delivers 155,945 vehicles in the first half of the year

09/07/2024
In the year of product launches, Porsche maintains stable sales in the first half of 2024: a total of 155,945 vehicles were handed over to customers worldwide between January and June.

Porsche delivers 155,945 vehicles in the first half of the year

In the year of product launches, Porsche maintains stable sales in the first half of 2024: a total of 155,945 vehicles were handed over to customers worldwide between January and June.

newsroom.porsche.com

and Ferrari?

 

[Coolcats]

and Ferrari?

there must be a few more oligarchs than we think...

Net revenues of Euro 5,970 million, up 17.2% versus prior year, with total shipments of 13,663 units up 3.3% versus FY 2022

Adjusted EBIT(1) of Euro 1,617 million, up 31.8% versus prior year, with adjusted EBIT(1) margin of 27.1%

Adjusted net profit(1) of Euro 1,257 million and adjusted diluted EPS(1) at Euro 6.90

Adjusted EBITDA(1) of Euro 2,279 million, up 28.5% versus prior year, with adjusted EBITDA(1) margin of 38.2%

Industrial free cash flow(1) generation of Euro 932

 

[L' Hobo]

there must be a few more oligarchs than we think...

Net revenues of Euro 5,970 million, up 17.2% versus prior year, with total shipments of 13,663 units up 3.3% versus FY 2022

Adjusted EBIT(1) of Euro 1,617 million, up 31.8% versus prior year, with adjusted EBIT(1) margin of 27.1%

Adjusted net profit(1) of Euro 1,257 million and adjusted diluted EPS(1) at Euro 6.90

Adjusted EBITDA(1) of Euro 2,279 million, up 28.5% versus prior year, with adjusted EBITDA(1) margin of 38.2%

Industrial free cash flow(1) generation of Euro 932

13,663 THOUSAND UNITS!

That can't mean CARS surely? Perhaps, with the price of Ferrari spares, that must include components?

IF it's just cars, one has to ask then, why even movie stars and billionaires HAVE to wait years to take possession?

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[Jofang]

We had a similar experience in Morocco, although we hit a sheep that suddenly dashed across the road in front of us. Not a hope in hell of stopping. 41,000 euros and 10 months later (all paid by AXA insurance, no quibble) we are back on the road, but why, with today's level of vehicle technology aren't manufacturers fitting automatic panic braking sensors to the front? This could remove the reaction time completely and save lives, maybe even that stupid lump of mutton that we hit.

 

[Barriesimpson]

We had a similar experience in Morocco, although we hit a sheep that suddenly dashed across the road in front of us. Not a hope in hell of stopping. 41,000 euros and 10 months later (all paid by AXA insurance, no quibble) we are back on the road, but why, with today's level of vehicle technology aren't manufacturers fitting automatic panic braking sensors to the front? This could remove the reaction time completely and save lives, maybe even that stupid lump of mutton that we hit.

They do on cars, I have that system on the Jaaaag - AEB it's called.

 

[Jofang]

They do on cars, I have that system on the Jaaaag - AEB it's called.

That's great Barrie! I don't know how long this technology has been available. In my thinking it's a variation on the theme of ABS.

 

[Barriesimpson]

That's great Barrie! I don't know how long this technology has been available. In my thinking it's a variation on the theme of ABS.

No, completely different. ABS is antilocking to avoid skidding around, AEB is autonomous emergency braking as in it'll slam the brakes on if you don't.

 

[Jofang]

No, completely different. ABS is antilocking to avoid skidding around, AEB is autonomous emergency braking as in it'll slam the brakes on if you don't.

There is already lane control and keep your distance from the one in front but I've never seen AEB publicised. Presently in Benicarlo by the way with a busted habitation Reich twin water pump.

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[Barriesimpson]

There is already lane control and keep your distance from the one in front but I've never seen AEB publicised. Presently in Benicarlo by the way with a busted habitation Reich twin water pump.

AEB has been around for some time already, probably 10 years or more.

 

[Dave and Jen]

AEB has been around for some time already, probably 10 years or more.

Even my humble Qashqai has it!!!
Cheers, Dave

 

[Jofang]

My newest vehicle is my 3.0 Amarok from 2017, sadly not fitted with AEB, neither is our 2016 Hymer.

 

[Coolcats]

13,663 THOUSAND UNITS!

That can't mean CARS surely? Perhaps, with the price of Ferrari spares, that must include components?

IF it's just cars, one has to ask then, why even movie stars and billionaires HAVE to wait years to take possession?

Spares are extra

Wait time is standard I guess for many manufacturers I recall waiting 3-4 months for a Ford Mondeo similar for a BMW

Morgan was renowned for a long wait list and Caterham were 6 months at one time possibly longer in recent years.

People have had long wait times in recent years although that trend has shortened somewhat

I suspsect if you want a factory build from Hymer etc you will also have a wait of a year or so.

Why would you buy a Ferrari when you can have a Lotus.

 

[L' Hobo]

Spares are extra

Wait time is standard I guess for many manufacturers I recall waiting 3-4 months for a Ford Mondeo similar for a BMW

Morgan was renowned for a long wait list and Caterham were 6 months at one time possibly longer in recent years.

People have had long wait times in recent years although that trend has shortened somewhat

I suspsect if you want a factory build from Hymer etc you will also have a wait of a year or so.

Why would you buy a Ferrari when you can have a Lotus.

Personally, I wouldn't want either
(although my Murvi was supposed to have originally belonged to someone connected with Lotus hence the personalised plate ending in L7)
because ALL of my vehicles have to be, at the very least, dual purpose vehicles.
(Murvi stands for.. Multi Use Recreation Vehicle Industries)
You can keep your sports cars!

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[Coolcats]

Personally, I wouldn't want either
(although my Murvi was supposed to have originally belonged to someone connected with Lotus hence the personalised plate ending in L7)
because ALL of my vehicles have to be, at the very least, dual purpose vehicles.
(Murvi stands for.. Multi Use Recreation Vehicle Industries)
You can keep your sports cars!

Fair enough, you can use a Lotus as a multipurpose vehicle nothing to stop you going shopping in it or going to B&Q to pick up some glue. For bigger items such as a length of skirting I use the Transporter.

It can be tricky though I recall when I had an original Europa parked right outside a restaurant wife had a nice pair of heels on and it was a struggle to get out gracefully (restaurant had a big picture window with every one looking out). The scenario was repeated with the Evora which is slightly easier for the wife and her heels to make a graceful exit.

So whilst not the most practical of vehicles they are great fun.

 

[Lenny HB]

AEB has been around for some time already, probably 10 years or more.

It is an option on the Ducato but most converters don't buy the option.
I think Post Collision Braking is standard on the Ducato.

 

[Vanman]

Sorry if this has already been done, but I asked ChatGPT ...

The stopping distance of a vehicle is influenced by several factors, including its speed, road conditions, tire conditions, and the type of vehicle. For a 4-ton (4,000 kg) 2012 Hymer B544 motorhome, on a wet road, estimating the stopping distance requires considering these elements. Here's a general breakdown:

Key Factors:​

1. Vehicle Weight: At 4 tons (4,000 kg), the Hymer B544 is a relatively heavy vehicle, which increases its stopping distance compared to lighter vehicles.
2. Road Conditions: Wet roads reduce the traction between tires and the road surface, increasing stopping distance.
3. Speed: The faster the vehicle is traveling, the greater the stopping distance. A typical passenger car has a stopping distance of 20–30 meters from 100 km/h (62 mph) on dry roads; on wet roads, this distance can increase by 40–50%.

Estimation of Stopping Distance:​

The formula to estimate stopping distance is:

Stopping Distance=Speed2250 (for dry roads)\text{Stopping Distance} = \frac{\text{Speed}^2}{250} \text{ (for dry roads)} Stopping Distance=250Speed2 (for dry roads)
On wet roads, this distance typically doubles or increases by 50%, depending on conditions.

Example at 50 km/h (31 mph):​

• Dry Road: Approximate stopping distance = 502250=10 meters\frac{50^2}{250} = 10 \text{ meters}250502=10 meters
• Wet Road: The stopping distance could be between 15 to 18 meters.

Example at 80 km/h (50 mph):​

• Dry Road: Approximate stopping distance = 802250=25.6 meters\frac{80^2}{250} = 25.6 \text{ meters}250802=25.6 meters
• Wet Road: The stopping distance could be around 40 meters.

Motorhome Considerations:​

A motorhome like the Hymer B544, due to its weight, size, and braking system, may require even longer distances than typical estimates for passenger vehicles. So, for wet roads, you can expect stopping distances to be 1.5 to 2 times longer than the estimates above.

For example, at:

• 50 km/h (31 mph): Approximate stopping distance could be 16 to 18 meters.
• 80 km/h (50 mph): Approximate stopping distance could be 40 to 50 meters.

Conclusion:​

While the stopping distance varies based on speed, road conditions, and vehicle condition, on wet roads, a 4-ton Hymer B544 might need about 1.5 to 2 times the stopping distance of a typical passenger car, depending on speed. Always remember to drive cautiously, especially in wet conditions.

 

[dunnah01]

Sorry if this has already been done, but I asked ChatGPT ...

The stopping distance of a vehicle is influenced by several factors, including its speed, road conditions, tire conditions, and the type of vehicle. For a 4-ton (4,000 kg) 2012 Hymer B544 motorhome, on a wet road, estimating the stopping distance requires considering these elements. Here's a general breakdown:

Key Factors:​

1. Vehicle Weight: At 4 tons (4,000 kg), the Hymer B544 is a relatively heavy vehicle, which increases its stopping distance compared to lighter vehicles.
2. Road Conditions: Wet roads reduce the traction between tires and the road surface, increasing stopping distance.
3. Speed: The faster the vehicle is traveling, the greater the stopping distance. A typical passenger car has a stopping distance of 20–30 meters from 100 km/h (62 mph) on dry roads; on wet roads, this distance can increase by 40–50%.

Estimation of Stopping Distance:​

The formula to estimate stopping distance is:

Stopping Distance=Speed2250 (for dry roads)\text{Stopping Distance} = \frac{\text{Speed}^2}{250} \text{ (for dry roads)} Stopping Distance=250Speed2 (for dry roads)
On wet roads, this distance typically doubles or increases by 50%, depending on conditions.

Example at 50 km/h (31 mph):​

• Dry Road: Approximate stopping distance = 502250=10 meters\frac{50^2}{250} = 10 \text{ meters}250502=10 meters
• Wet Road: The stopping distance could be between 15 to 18 meters.

Example at 80 km/h (50 mph):​

• Dry Road: Approximate stopping distance = 802250=25.6 meters\frac{80^2}{250} = 25.6 \text{ meters}250802=25.6 meters
• Wet Road: The stopping distance could be around 40 meters.

Motorhome Considerations:​

A motorhome like the Hymer B544, due to its weight, size, and braking system, may require even longer distances than typical estimates for passenger vehicles. So, for wet roads, you can expect stopping distances to be 1.5 to 2 times longer than the estimates above.

For example, at:

• 50 km/h (31 mph): Approximate stopping distance could be 16 to 18 meters.
• 80 km/h (50 mph): Approximate stopping distance could be 40 to 50 meters.

Conclusion:​

While the stopping distance varies based on speed, road conditions, and vehicle condition, on wet roads, a 4-ton Hymer B544 might need about 1.5 to 2 times the stopping distance of a typical passenger car, depending on speed. Always remember to drive cautiously, especially in wet conditions.

Or in non ChatGPT speak - 'I don't know'

 

[L' Hobo]

Sorry if this has already been done, but I asked ChatGPT ...

The stopping distance of a vehicle is influenced by several factors, including its speed, road conditions, tire conditions, and the type of vehicle. For a 4-ton (4,000 kg) 2012 Hymer B544 motorhome, on a wet road, estimating the stopping distance requires considering these elements. Here's a general breakdown:

Key Factors:​

1. Vehicle Weight: At 4 tons (4,000 kg), the Hymer B544 is a relatively heavy vehicle, which increases its stopping distance compared to lighter vehicles.
2. Road Conditions: Wet roads reduce the traction between tires and the road surface, increasing stopping distance.
3. Speed: The faster the vehicle is traveling, the greater the stopping distance. A typical passenger car has a stopping distance of 20–30 meters from 100 km/h (62 mph) on dry roads; on wet roads, this distance can increase by 40–50%.

Estimation of Stopping Distance:​

The formula to estimate stopping distance is:

Stopping Distance=Speed2250 (for dry roads)\text{Stopping Distance} = \frac{\text{Speed}^2}{250} \text{ (for dry roads)} Stopping Distance=250Speed2 (for dry roads)
On wet roads, this distance typically doubles or increases by 50%, depending on conditions.

Example at 50 km/h (31 mph):​

• Dry Road: Approximate stopping distance = 502250=10 meters\frac{50^2}{250} = 10 \text{ meters}250502=10 meters
• Wet Road: The stopping distance could be between 15 to 18 meters.

Example at 80 km/h (50 mph):​

• Dry Road: Approximate stopping distance = 802250=25.6 meters\frac{80^2}{250} = 25.6 \text{ meters}250802=25.6 meters
• Wet Road: The stopping distance could be around 40 meters.

Motorhome Considerations:​

A motorhome like the Hymer B544, due to its weight, size, and braking system, may require even longer distances than typical estimates for passenger vehicles. So, for wet roads, you can expect stopping distances to be 1.5 to 2 times longer than the estimates above.

For example, at:

• 50 km/h (31 mph): Approximate stopping distance could be 16 to 18 meters.
• 80 km/h (50 mph): Approximate stopping distance could be 40 to 50 meters.

Conclusion:​

While the stopping distance varies based on speed, road conditions, and vehicle condition, on wet roads, a 4-ton Hymer B544 might need about 1.5 to 2 times the stopping distance of a typical passenger car, depending on speed. Always remember to drive cautiously, especially in wet conditions.

That is very simplistic and some parts, not necessarily true.
For instance, saying that a heavier vehicle will take longer to stop in wet weather, is not always true.

While I was a test/demonstration truck driver for some of the big companies , we also delivered truck chassis's without bodies.
These were much less weight BUT if your tried to stop quickly in wet weather, you would either go into a long uncontrollable slide or spin, often further than a completed truck.

One didn't try to stop a chassis cab in less distance than a completed vehicle, weight is all to do with how it's distributed.

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[ianp]

Far from having much experience other than as a driver but isn't the concept of wet road etc all a bit passe now as isn't braking achieved by stopping the rotation of the wheels in a controlled manner rather than 'locking' them up....... as in ABS.......?