Sterling 60A B2B vs Victron Orion 50A B2B.

[JockandRita]

Our Sterling 60A B2B has served us well over the last 3-4 years, (as did our 50A unit in the Hymer), charging our Gels first and later our SLA batteries.
With our new LiFePo4 batteries, it is still performing well, and on the correct charging regime for them. With the built in CBE distribution system, the AES F/F takes it's 12v power @16A from the leisure batteries, so with a recently tested 45A output from the Sterling unit, only about 30A of that is going into the batteries.

To those in the know.............would the Victron Orion 50A B2B perform any better, or quicker even? I am aware that it is cooler in operation, and that the Sterling unit does throw out some heat from the installed fan. It is connected via the ignition feed.

Whilst I appreciate I can link the Victron unit to the other Victron items via the VRM App, and have them all communicating with each other, I am loathe to spend £300 on a charging facility which I already have and appears to be doing the job well, albeit lower tech.

Apart from a lack of Blue Tooth connectivity to the Sterling unit, are there any other disadvantages of it, compared to the Victron unit?

Thanks in advance,

Jock.

 

[headlight]

Our Sterling 60A B2B has served us well over the last 3-4 years, (as did our 50A unit in the Hymer), charging our Gels first and later our SLA batteries.
With our new LiFePo4 batteries, it is still performing well, and on the correct charging regime for them. With the built in CBE distribution system, the AES F/F takes it's 12v power @16A from the leisure batteries, so with a recently tested 45A output from the Sterling unit, only about 30A of that is going into the batteries.

To those in the know.............would the Victron Orion 50A B2B perform any better, or quicker even? I am aware that it is cooler in operation, and that the Sterling unit does throw out some heat from the installed fan. It is connected via the ignition feed.

Whilst I appreciate I can link the Victron unit to the other Victron items via the VRM App, and have them all communicating with each other, I am loathe to spend £300 on a charging facility which I already have and appears to be doing the job well, albeit lower tech.

Apart from a lack of Blue Tooth connectivity to the Sterling unit, are there any other disadvantages of it, compared to the Victron unit?

Thanks in advance,

Jock.

Any reason why your Sterling 60 amp B2B is only delivering 45 amps ?
Running to hot maybe?
My Sterling 60 amp B2B delivers 55 amps into my LifePo4 leisure battery.

 

[MichaelT]

Our Orion XS gave us a constant 45a this morning topped up by our Shaudt unit giving another 10a.

 

[autorouter]

My 70A Sterling B2B took 69A at the input from the alternator, so I would expect a similar input amps from your 60A B2B, ie about 59A. If the battery is fairly full, that will reduce, of course.

I think you'd be better spending the money on a relay for the fridge, so it runs directly off the alternator/starter battery when the engine is running. It's a complete waste using the B2B output to power the fridge heater element, it works perfectly well on the standard alternator output. Even if it's a smart alternator, that drops the voltage to 12.5V most of the time.

It only takes 16A, so a standard 30A relay would be fine.

 

[JockandRita]

Any reason why your Sterling 60 amp B2B is only delivering 45 amps ?

Probably because that's all that the batteries were calling for. The F/F was off at that testing stage.

Running to hot maybe?

No, as that was the reading on startup. No heat output from the heat sink at that point, and after a good few minutes, the cables were only slightly warm.

My Sterling 60 amp B2B delivers 55 amps into my LifePo4 leisure battery.

That's good to know thanks, but does your F/F run off the D+ or the leisure batteries?
It has been suggested to me that the 60A is the input figure. I always thought it was the output figure.

I think you'd be better spending the money on a relay for the fridge, so it runs directly off the alternator/starter battery when the engine is running. It's a complete waste using the B2B output to power the fridge heater element, it works perfectly well on the standard alternator output. Even if it's a smart alternator, that drops the voltage to 12.5V most of the time.

That's not a job I could tackle on my own, as I wouldn't even know where to start.

Cheers,

Jock.

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[1967bowesj]

That's not a job I could tackle on my own, as I wouldn't even know where to start.

Maybe not Jock but shouldn’t be too expensive to get done.

 

[Guigsy]

... Do you actually need more?

The VanLife trend seems to be to have 500Ah of lithium, 500w of solar and a powerful B2B. But if you actually ask them, the battery never gets below 80%. And most of the time it's rammed full. It's a waste of money and payload.

We've got a 280Ah battery. Which means we can sit still of grid for a week in winter (assuming no solar). If I move, my 30A B2B gives me nearly a day of power for every hour of driving. After a couple of weeks of winter touring, I stopped at a campsite with a hookup to wash some clothes and got the battery back to full overnight (on a 20A charger). And for about 6 months of the year, my 175w of solar normally keeps me net positive anyway. Unless your battery is tiny, you don't need it to be full every day.

 

[JockandRita]

... Do you actually need more?

The VanLife trend seems to be to have 500Ah of lithium, 500w of solar and a powerful B2B. But if you actually ask them, the battery never gets below 80%. And most of the time it's rammed full. It's a waste of money and payload.

We've got a 280Ah battery. Which means we can sit still of grid for a week in winter (assuming no solar). If I move, my 30A B2B gives me nearly a day of power for every hour of driving. After a couple of weeks of winter touring, I stopped at a campsite with a hookup to wash some clothes and got the battery back to full overnight (on a 20A charger). And for about 6 months of the year, my 175w of solar normally keeps me net positive anyway. Unless your battery is tiny, you don't need it to be full every day.

Guigsy, I'm happy to admit that I'm new to the LiFeP04 regime, but having come home after a weekend away at 95% SOC, and with going nowhere, and hardly any solar charge, we are now at 83% SOC. That's a 12% depletion in 7 x days exactly It only needs another 7 x weeks of no charging activity, and that's us empty.
I strongly suspect that the Battery Master doing it's job to top up the cab battery is responsible for the drop in percentage.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

I swapped out the Sterling unit for the Victron Orion XS. For me it was space, trying to fit a quart into pintpot sized space, but also that I had seen the Sterling throttling back under temperature when the lithium had been taken down a lot so it was working hard for longer periods with poor ventilation as the cooling fans were pushing air direct onto a flat surface. The Victron, together with different profile leisure battery and revised wiring let me re-arrange it all for a much more efficient layout, even if it hurt my pocket.

The Sterling never seemed to give much more than 45A of the claimed 60A into the battery according to the SmartShunt. The Victron is achieving a similar 45A output. But the fridge would also be working on 12V if engine was running. Wiring diagrams suggest the fridge would be powered off the starter battery side. So I suspect the 45A ish is a limitation of my alternator's abilities on what would be a smaller size PVC and Autotrail would have had no reason to require a higher specification alternator when the original pants wiring system would have maxed out as 12A into the leisure.

A side benefit is the Victron Orion XS talks to the other kit such as shunt and solar so I can see everything in one place. But I'm not really sure that is essential.

 

[jumar]

Jock...I'm happy with just 30amp Victron B2B...it gets warmish....but functions...when I upgraded my Lithium set up a short while back, I thought of upgrading the B2B also....but as my solar brings in another 8/10 amp even whilst driving, this is perfectly sufficient for our needs..
Your confidence in Lithium will no doubt grow with time....we just love ours...the flexibility outweighs the cost...
Just a small point...is your cabling the recommended sizing...I changed mine as I moved the B2B this and a few connections improved performance/output..

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[Googlebot]

I wouldn’t bother, the output of my Victron XS is only about 45 amps.

For the money you could have the fridge run with a relay by a professional with change out of £300.

 

[Guigsy]

Guigsy, I'm happy to admit that I'm new to the LiFeP04 regime, but having come home after a weekend away at 95% SOC, and with going nowhere, and hardly any solar charge, we are now at 83% SOC. That's a 12% depletion in 7 x days exactly It only needs another 7 x weeks of no charging activity, and that's us empty.
I strongly suspect that the Battery Master doing it's job to top up the cab battery is responsible for the drop in percentage.

Cheers,

Jock.

So you plug in once in a while? I usually just have it plugged in at home the night before I go way and for a day or so when I return if it needs it. And for most of the year, it doesn't because even a small amount of solar keeps it going. And my van is in a courtyard surrounded by 3 and 4 storey buildings, so it gets almost no sun for several months.

 

[JockandRita]

I swapped out the Sterling unit for the Victron Orion XS. For me it was space, trying to fit a quart into pintpot sized space, but also that I had seen the Sterling throttling back under temperature when the lithium had been taken down a lot so it was working hard for longer periods with poor ventilation as the cooling fans were pushing air direct onto a flat surface. The Victron, together with different profile leisure battery and revised wiring let me re-arrange it all for a much more efficient layout, even if it hurt my pocket.

The Sterling never seemed to give much more than 45A of the claimed 60A into the battery according to the SmartShunt. The Victron is achieving a similar 45A output. But the fridge would also be working on 12V if engine was running. Wiring diagrams suggest the fridge would be powered off the starter battery side. So I suspect the 45A ish is a limitation of my alternator's abilities on what would be a smaller size PVC and Autotrail would have had no reason to require a higher specification alternator when the original pants wiring system would have maxed out as 12A into the leisure.

A side benefit is the Victron Orion XS talks to the other kit such as shunt and solar so I can see everything in one place. But I'm not really sure that is essential.

Thanks for your detailed and informative post Rob. Much appreciated.

Our alternator is 150A, so only working at approximately a third capacity.

I wouldn’t bother, the output of my Victron XS is only about 45 amps.

For the money you could have the fridge run with a relay by a professional with change out of £300.

That's what I'm thinking, so I think we'll carry on and see how we get on over the coming months, three of which will see us travelling down to Spain, then experiencing sunshine for about 8 x hours on most days.

Thanks to all for your replies so far.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Worth noting that, currently, you don't need to pay £300 for the Victron Orion XS. Offgridpower.solutions have it on offer at £249, and (I may be wrong) funsters can register and get a further 10% discount.

 

[Ditcha]

Worth noting that, currently, you don't need to pay £300 for the Victron Orion XS. Offgridpower.solutions have it on offer at £249, and (I may be wrong) funsters can register and get a further 10% discount.

No discount on the £249 price Rob but still a great price.

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[headlight]

Guigsy, I'm happy to admit that I'm new to the LiFeP04 regime, but having come home after a weekend away at 95% SOC, and with going nowhere, and hardly any solar charge, we are now at 83% SOC. That's a 12% depletion in 7 x days exactly It only needs another 7 x weeks of no charging activity, and that's us empty.
I strongly suspect that the Battery Master doing it's job to top up the cab battery is responsible for the drop in percentage.

Cheers,

Jock.

I have 230 watts of solar, 230AH LifePo4 and a Battery Master.
The solar keeps my leisure battery fully charged and the Battery Master keeps my starter battery fully charged.
Even in the depths of winter with my van only being used maybe 2-3 nights a month, so sitting for around 4 weeks at a time, I don't see any depletion of SOC so I doubt it is the Battery Master depleting your battery.
This is my third winter with solar and Battery Master.
Do your onboard systems have much of a parasitic drain, alarm, tracker control panel ?

 

[AdrianChen]

Guigsy, I'm happy to admit that I'm new to the LiFeP04 regime, but having come home after a weekend away at 95% SOC, and with going nowhere, and hardly any solar charge, we are now at 83% SOC. That's a 12% depletion in 7 x days exactly It only needs another 7 x weeks of no charging activity, and that's us empty.
I strongly suspect that the Battery Master doing it's job to top up the cab battery is responsible for the drop in percentage.

Cheers,

Jock.

Is the starter battery in good condition? The BM will be on pretty much full time given the voltage of your lithium will likely be more than 0.8v higher then the start battery. If the start battery has a fault/is knackered perhaps it's soaking up all that's on offer! We had a similar situation on our previous van - when the CSB2 (BM type device) was disconnected from the start battery it took 24hrs to go to 11.5v from being apparently fully charged.

 

[JockandRita]

I have 230 watts of solar, 230AH LifePo4 and a Battery Master.
The solar keeps my leisure battery fully charged and the Battery Master keeps my starter battery fully charged.
Even in the depths of winter with my van only being used maybe 2-3 nights a month, so sitting for around 4 weeks at a time, I don't see any depletion of SOC so I doubt it is the Battery Master depleting your battery.
This is my third winter with solar and Battery Master.
Do your onboard systems have much of a parasitic drain, alarm, tracker control panel ?

Our setup is 320w of solar, 610Ah of LiFePo4, and a Battery Master.

With the panel in standby mode, and the alarm set, the Smart Shunt is showing 0.59A discharge, but the SOC is still at 83% so not changed over the last 24/48hrs. The batteries are showing 13.29v, indicating almost 90% SOC, so all appears to be good.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[JockandRita]

Is the starter battery in good condition? The BM will be on pretty much full time given the voltage of your lithium will likely be more than 0.8v higher then the start battery. If the start battery has a fault/is knackered perhaps it's soaking up all that's on offer! We had a similar situation on our previous van - when the CSB2 (BM type device) was disconnected from the start battery it took 24hrs to go to 11.5v from being apparently fully charged.

It's Type 19 at 90Ah and only 2 x years old at most Adrian. Every time I'm in the side locker where all the CBE electrics are, the BM is always showing green, (charged), rather than red, (charging). I had the CBE CSB2 on the Hymer, ( a great little charging unit), but this one on the Flair is the Vanbitz BM.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Ditcha]

Our setup is 320w of solar, 610Ah of LiFePo4, and a Battery Master.

With the panel in standby mode, and the alarm set, the Smart Shunt is showing 0.59A discharge, but the SOC is still at 83% so not changed over the last 24/48hrs. The batteries are showing 13.29v, indicating almost 90% SOC, so all appears to be good.

View attachment 973941

Cheers,

Jock.

Jock I wouldn't use voltage on lithium's as a guide to the soc.

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[MisterB]

JockandRita

judging by the classifieds, someone is really having a rethink or just a clear out LOL!!

 

[JockandRita]

Jock I wouldn't use voltage on lithium's as a guide to the soc.

Thanks Dave. I'm not relying on voltage readings as I might have done perhaps with SLA/Gels, but rather listing them for info.
My Smart Shunt tells me I'm at 83%, so going with that as pukka info.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[JockandRita]

JockandRita

judging by the classifieds, someone is really having a rethink or just a clear out LOL!!

Yes Dave ie, a new 12v power regime with Victron replacing Votronic....................purely because of no LiFePo4 settings on the Votronic solar controllers. With Gels initially, and then SLAs, they performed extremely well.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[MisterB]

Yes Dave ie, a new 12v power regime with Victron replacing Votronic....................purely because of no LiFePo4 settings on the Votronic solar controllers. With Gels initially, and then SLAs, they performed extremely well.

Cheers,

Jock.

are you sure they dont 'just work'?

i have a later version of yours, on mine it shows the LiPo setting as being the same as the LA setting .... i cant imagine they re-engineered the whole module. if you look at some listings on ebay you will see the front cover, which shows LA and Lif-Po being the same setting? is it worth asking Votronic before replacing ?

 

[JockandRita]

are you sure they dont 'just work'?

i have a later version of yours, on mine it shows the LiPo setting as being the same as the LA setting .... i cant imagine they re-engineered the whole module. if you look at some listings on ebay you will see the front cover, which shows LA and Lif-Po being the same setting? is it worth asking Votronic before replacing ?

Thanks again Dave, but the job is "done and dusted" as they say.

I did some research for months before making the decision to change over, and the it became evident that the controllers were unsuitable for LiFePo4. The mains charger remains available, (off at the moment), but switched back to the Gel setting. I have been advised not to use a LA setting for charging due to the higher bulk charging voltage, and to avoid any desulphation phase.

Cheers,

Jock.

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[funflair]

It's Type 19 at 90Ah and only 2 x years old at most Adrian. Every time I'm in the side locker where all the CBE electrics are, the BM is always showing green, (charged), rather than red, (charging). I had the CBE CSB2 on the Hymer, ( a great little charging unit), but this one on the Flair is the Vanbitz BM.

Cheers,

Jock.

Hi Jock, unless you have disconnected it you should have the CBE CSB2 as well, I fitted the BM as it works differently to the CBE and allowed it to work while the van was in a shed (CBE wouldn't do that) we have the BM on the Palace with lithium and it works fine.

Re your solar regs and yes I know it's done now I fitted Votronic MPPT to the Palace as the factory ones were PWM the Votronic certainly had a LiFePO4 profile but were not as programmable as the Victron, the Votronic were eventually replaced with Victron as the Votronics kept having a hissy fit and wouldn't start up on some mornings, the Victron option are better all round in my experience so you did right even if it was for the wrong reason (or maybe the older ones didn't have LiFePO4 setting)

 

[JockandRita]

Hi Jock, unless you have disconnected it you should have the CBE CSB2 as well, I fitted the BM as it works differently to the CBE and allowed it to work while the van was in a shed (CBE wouldn't do that) we have the BM on the Palace with lithium and it works fine.

Thanks Martin.
It must still be connected then, as although I remember you mentioning it to me before, I've not found it yet, but have not actively looked for it.

When I mentioned it to a another Funster who is clever with electrics, they commented, "Wow, that's a belt and braces job", but not said in a criticising manner at all.

Can you remember where you fitted it please? I can only see the Vanbitz BM.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[funflair]

Thanks Martin.
It must still be connected then, as although I remember you mentioning it to me before, I've not found it yet, but have not actively looked for it.

When I mentioned it to a another Funster who is clever with electrics, they commented, "Wow, that's a belt and braces job", but not said in a criticising manner at all.

Can you remember where you fitted it please? I can only see the Vanbitz BM.

View attachment 974018

Cheers,

Jock.

Original N+B Jock and no I haven't a clue where it is, belt a braces? well sort of but the reasoning was as follows, the CBE needs something like 13.6v to offer a charge to the starter battery so OK out in the sun or on hook up BUT not in a shed without hook up. The solution was to fit an EFOY to the habitation batteries and set to switch on at 12.2v, the BM working on a voltage difference would still keep the starter battery OK until they were both down to 12.2v at which point the EFOY would start up and charge the habitation batteries back up (the van would still start at 12.2v just before the EFOY kicked in), I think you should have a symbol on the CBE display telling you that the CBE CSB2 is connected.

Anyway, congratulations on the Lithium and Victron upgrade, should be great (ours is )

EDIT it's the two batteries connected symbol,

CAR BATTERY RECHARGE (B1)
With battery charger or solar panel: an electronic device controlled by the microprocessor allows the
recharge (max 4A) of car battery (B1) only if it has a voltage lower than 12,5V and if the voltage of
leisure battery is bigger than 13.6V.
Priority is given to leisure battery (B2) charge.
Function is displayed by the symbol ref. 03 on control panel.

 

[JockandRita]

so you did right even if it was for the wrong reason (or maybe the older ones didn't have LiFePO4 setting)

Having done my research, the latter applies Martin, ie, only 2 x tiny switches offering 3 x options, eg, LA/Gel/AGM.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[JockandRita]

Original N+B Jock

I get you now, ie, not an after fit.

I think you should have a symbol on the CBE display telling you that the CBE CSB2 is connected.

EDIT it's the two batteries connected symbol,

Yes, but TBH, I have only ever seen them when the engine is running and charging is effective. I have never observed the symbol on the panel at any other time.

Anyway, congratulations on the Lithium and Victron upgrade, should be great (ours is )

Thanks Martin. We, (but me especially), are looking forward to experimenting and getting used to them.
Most pans are induction compatible, but a new compatible frying pan and lid are winging their way to us as I type.

The Air Fryer will have to wait for now, as neither of us are convinced yet of the need for one...........nor of the room to store one.

Cheers,

Jock.

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