Starter battery problem ?

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headlight

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Swift Suntor 590RL
2006 Swift Suntor on a Fiat Ducato with a 2.3jtd engine.
Started the van this morning for the first time since driving it back from Taunton 3 weeks ago to go on a trip.
Van started first flick as usual.
I drove less than 2 miles to a garage to check my tyre pressures.
After checking the pressures I turned the ignition the first click and lots of lights came up on the dash the same as every time then after a few seconds they go off as usual, I turn the key and nothing happens no click absolutely dead and the dash goes blank.
I try this several times then open the bonnet to check obvious things like battery connections.
Everything appears fine so I ring my breakdown cover.
Guy turns up I show him what's happening he says the starter battery is flat.
Puts jump leads on it and it starts fine.
Seems very weird to me as less than 2 miles ago the battery was fine, I have solar and a battery master so the starter battery is always fine and starter battery is 14 moths old.
He says drive it for half an hour and it will be fine so I drive the 90 minutes to my sisters. Get there then after 30-40 minutes go to leave and it's dead again.
Put a multimeter on the battery and it shows 12.7v, turn the key and it drops straight to 0v.
Jump start it and it shows 14.2v, and my leisure batteries are being charged by the B2B.
Turn it off and it's dead again.
Has the battery just simply failed on the 2 mile drive ?
 
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Update.
This morning I put a jump lead off the negative post to the engine block lifting eye thereby definitely ruling out an earth problem.
I then put a secondary feed to the starter motor ruling that out as the problem.
I rang round garages to book it in but the earliest I can get it looked at is Saturday so I jump started it and brought it home.
I will jump start it and take it to the garage Saturday morning.
 
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Jimbohorlicks said:
It may be better to just buy a new starter battery, approx £110. Or at least take the battery out / disconnect it , and charge it for a couple of days and then check it again.
Maybe cheaper than a garage visit.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
A couple of accessory and car parts places near me are open 8 til 6. I have a trade card which makes Halfords very competitive (and they often have special offers available to all). They will fit one while you wait. and they are open til 8 p.m.
(I keep an old but serviceable spare battery on charge in my workshop as there often seems to be someone - kids, neighbours etc. whose car won't start).
 
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The positive battery terminal is under the wing with a load of connections and fuses on it. You can't even see the post or clamp hence I'm going to let a garage fit a new battery.
They will do it Saturday morning while I wait, £120 plus vat fitted (probably won't have to pay vat)
They are the same garage I use for my car and works van so I trust them.

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headlight said:
2006 Swift Suntor on a Fiat Ducato with a 2.3jtd engine.
Started the van this morning for the first time since driving it back from Taunton 3 weeks ago to go on a trip.
Van started first flick as usual.
I drove less than 2 miles to a garage to check my tyre pressures.
After checking the pressures I turned the ignition the first click and lots of lights came up on the dash the same as every time then after a few seconds they go off as usual, I turn the key and nothing happens no click absolutely dead and the dash goes blank.
I try this several times then open the bonnet to check obvious things like battery connections.
Everything appears fine so I ring my breakdown cover.
Guy turns up I show him what's happening he says the starter battery is flat.
Puts jump leads on it and it starts fine.
Seems very weird to me as less than 2 miles ago the battery was fine, I have solar and a battery master so the starter battery is always fine and starter battery is 14 moths old.
He says drive it for half an hour and it will be fine so I drive the 90 minutes to my sisters. Get there then after 30-40 minutes go to leave and it's dead again.
Put a multimeter on the battery and it shows 12.7v, turn the key and it drops straight to 0v.
Jump start it and it shows 14.2v, and my leisure batteries are being charged by the B2B.
Turn it off and it's dead again.
Has the battery just simply failed on the 2 mile drive ?
Click to expand...
Sounds very familiar. I have a 2004 Knaus Sunliner 2.8 Fiat jtd that had the same problem a number of times over a long period that flummoxed 3 garages until the problem was eventually identified. The engine would often turn over and start without problem but at some point in the journey, when I had stopped and then tried to restart the engine, the battery would appear to be completely dead. It eventually transpired that, despite the battery terminals both appearing to have all connections in place correctly, there was a poor positive terminal connection that randomly raised its head. The poor connection was a result of very difficult access (the battery is in the back left corner right up against the rear engine bulkhead) that made it hard, if not impossible, both to see and to gain access to correctly tighten the rear facing terminal connections, possibly exacerbated by many attempts by garages resulting in some rounding off of the bolt heads. It was only after a very determined mechanic meticulously removed, cleaned and correctly tightened the connections that the problem was finally resolved. The key to the repair was to find a mechanic who was small and dexterous enough to gain access and who was determined not to be beaten by the problem.
 
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Retired Tiffy said:
Sounds very familiar. I have a 2004 Knaus Sunliner 2.8 Fiat jtd that had the same problem a number of times over a long period that flummoxed 3 garages until the problem was eventually identified. The engine would often turn over and start without problem but at some point in the journey, when I had stopped and then tried to restart the engine, the battery would appear to be completely dead. It eventually transpired that, despite the battery terminals both appearing to have all connections in place correctly, there was a poor positive terminal connection that randomly raised its head. The poor connection was a result of very difficult access (the battery is in the back left corner right up against the rear engine bulkhead) that made it hard, if not impossible, both to see and to gain access to correctly tighten the rear facing terminal connections, possibly exacerbated by many attempts by garages resulting in some rounding off of the bolt heads. It was only after a very determined mechanic meticulously removed, cleaned and correctly tightened the connections that the problem was finally resolved. The key to the repair was to find a mechanic who was small and dexterous enough to gain access and who was determined not to be beaten by the problem.
Click to expand...
Yes that is the same setup as mine.
The positive terminal feels solid, I can't move it.
You can't actually see or get to the clamp due to all the fuses.
All I can see is a couple bolt threads which I assume is the bolt that secures the clamp to the positive post.
If I put a jump lead on those threads it starts fine so I assume the clamp must be connected to the positive post ok.
Anyway I will be getting the garage to check before fitting a new battery.
 
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If it starts when you connect the jump lead to the clamp bolt threads you are then by-passing the battery terminal to terminal lead connection and the starter is getting its power to operate from the jump start lead ,this could point to a poor battery terminal connection ,even if it is tight. A poor connection (even if tight) at the battery terminal could show voltage on a multi meter but not be able to allow the amps through needed for the starter to operate from the battery.
 
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GeoffnDee said:
If it starts when you connect the jump lead to the clamp bolt threads you are then by-passing the battery terminal to terminal lead connection and the starter is getting its power to operate from the jump start lead ,this could point to a poor battery terminal connection ,even if it is tight. A poor connection (even if tight) at the battery terminal could show voltage on a multi meter but not be able to allow the amps through needed for the starter to operate from the battery.
Click to expand...
Agreed which is why I will get the garage to check the positive battery connection.
 
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Well you got me thinking so with the aid of a socket with a wobble joint, mirror on a telescopic rod thing and a torch I've managed to get on the positive battery terminal clamp and it's definitely tight.
Strangely though I've just operated the electric step, which I'm pretty sure is powered by the starter battery, and it works fine.
Engine still won't turn over and dash goes blank when I turn the key.

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Not that strange the step only takes a few amps the starter takes a over 200 amps, sounds like it is the battery.
 
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The terminal may be tight but the problem could be the actual connection not being good between the battery terminal and the inside of the terminal connection. It may be allowing some power through but not enough for the starter (which is why the dash lights go out when trying the starter) the only way to check this is to remove the terminal connection and clean it and then try it. (unless you can get a meter to the actual terminal post and check for voltage drop between it and the terminal plate when a load is put on it)
 
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GeoffnDee said:
The terminal may be tight but the problem could be the actual connection not being good between the battery terminal and the inside of the terminal connection. It may be allowing some power through but not enough for the starter (which is why the dash lights go out when trying the starter) the only way to check this is to remove the terminal connection and clean it and then try it.
Click to expand...
I'll leave it to the garage.
The starter battery is a Yuasa YBX3019 3000 and only fitted 29/11/21 so not 14 months old yet.
Battery has a 3 year warranty.
 
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