Starter and Leisure Batteries dead after weekend hooked up at campsite

[dayman1]

Thanks both, I don’t have a clamp meter so I will try that trick first and see if I get anywhere with it.

What’s making me think there might be something draining it is that I fully charged the battery last night, then left it in the house unplugged all night before putting it back in the van this morning. If the battery was not holding charge surely it would be dead by the morning, and not just die after five or six hours hooked up into the van.

Appreciate the responses I’ll update again once I know more.

 

[Badknee]

What’s making me think there might be something draining it is that I fully charged the battery last night,

dayman1 if the batteries are lead acid have you checked that the plates are flooded. Top up with distilled water to above the plates

 

[ambo2camper]

Hi all,

We just spent a weekend at a campsite in our van. When we arrived to the campsite, reception was closed and we could not hook up to the mains power, and I am not that familiar with our Dometic fridge. I tried to switch it on with the switch for 12v. I left it on for a short while, less than an hour, and then we managed to get plugged in to the mains at the campsite so I then switched the fridge on to that.

We then spent the weekend and everything worked fine. We checked out yesterday, and parked a short distance away, went for lunch and came back about 3 hours later to find the battery light in our Elektroblock power unit flashing red, and the van was dead and would not start at all. I managed to jump it with a boost pack, and we drove home for 2 hours on the motorway, but when we got home the battery is still dead and the light still flashing. The leisure battery is also dead.

I'm really not sure what might have happened, but it maybe seems as if something is draining the batteries now that we are not on the EHU, any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated!

I expect you have an issue with charging, both engine and ehu. Sounds like you didn't have the unit on battery charging whilst you were plugged in. Your vehicle battery should have charged on your journey home at least to 50%.
You really need an expert to look and test it. Then explain to you exactly how the system works.
It makes me lol when I see stickers obscuring lights , they're there for a reason. Has your dashboard battery light got a felt sticker obscuring it also? I don't understand why your vehicle battery is still flat???

 

[roxburd]

I'd give the fridge a good couple of hours on gas before deciding its faulty - it can take that long to cool noticeably.

 

[L' Hobo]

I'd give the fridge a good couple of hours on gas before deciding its faulty - it can take that long to cool noticeably.

and perhaps longer at this time of year, my fridge on gas, only seems to keep it's low temperature achieved by plugging it into my home EHU for a few hours.
IF I use gas only, it takes forever!

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[dayman1]

Did some more digging this morning, I pulled out the Schaudt control panel, and the positive connection coming from the leisure battery has come loose from the connector. I guess this is potentially what has caused the starter battery to drain over the leisure battery, but I'm still not entirely sure if something is causing the drain. there is a set of connectors that provide power to the waste water level indicators and they were also loose.

I am charging the starter battery once again, and I am going to try and isolate the leisure system from the starter battery so that I can at least determine that it is most likely the fridge or something else in the leisure system and not the alternator.

This is a "factory built" campervan by Bravia Mobil, but the wiring in it is frankly disgraceful. I've found small wires cut under the seats and behind panels, wires connected with standard connectors and a bit of insulating tape and just shoved in behind things, it does not look professional at all. I guess previous owners may have contributed to this but either way it's a mess.

 

[Jofang]

Sadly, this is what you inherit with a used van. We have never bought a new van and have found the same as you have with all the vans we've had in the past.

 

[dayman1]

I expect you have an issue with charging, both engine and ehu. Sounds like you didn't have the unit on battery charging whilst you were plugged in. Your vehicle battery should have charged on your journey home at least to 50%.
You really need an expert to look and test it. Then explain to you exactly how the system works.
It makes me lol when I see stickers obscuring lights , they're there for a reason. Has your dashboard battery light got a felt sticker obscuring it also? I don't understand why your vehicle battery is still flat???

Thanks for the message, it does seem like something was drawing from the engine battery while driving, or it was not charging.

Haha my other half wanted the stickers over the lights, we can still see them through the stickers because obviously we need to be able to see them but she got annoyed at them when trying to sleep.

 

[dayman1]

Sadly, this is what you inherit with a used van. We have never bought a new van and have found the same as you have with all the vans we've had in the past.

fair point yeah I guess, it's over 15 years old so that's a lot of time for someone to mess around with it!

 

[dayman1]

dayman1 if the batteries are lead acid have you checked that the plates are flooded. Top up with distilled water to above the plates

I checked and it's a Banner battery which is fully sealed. Even when it's "flat" it still reads 12.7 volts so I don't think it's the battery at this stage

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[dayman1]

reading the manual, there is also a "D+" connection, that has come loose, does anybody know the purpose of this? It seems to have something to do with switching between batteries but I wonder what happens if it is not connected.

Edit: I found in the manual the D+ referred to as "alternator" connection, does this mean if this is not connected then the alternator is not charging either battery?

 

[Lenny HB]

The D+ normally controls the split charge relay which charges the leisure battery while driving also controls the fridge relay so fridge runs on 12v while driving. Also has other function like step buzzer & few other bits.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Remember to check voltage when battery is at rest (no charge / discharge) for at least 30 minutes if not an hour. The chemical reactions in the battery until then can be misleading for voltage.

When you connect a moderate load say 5A to that battery, if the voltage rapidly drops by at least 0.5V then it is probably fubar.

D+ is usually needed from the main engine battery to signal the leisure systems that they can accept a charge. Also tells things like fridge it can run off 12V as the engine is on. Similarly D+ would tell those systems to stop. If you have seen a lot of evidence of DIY alterations there must be concern the D+ systems are somehow bypassed, an indicator perhaps of why some stuff might have a load on it that you don't expect.

 

[dayman1]

I have now isolated the starter battery from the leisure system, reconnected the loose wires and have hooked the batteries back into the van. It started fine so I will leave it connected for a few hours and see if the battery stays charged!

 

[autorouter]

reading the manual, there is also a "D+" connection, that has come loose, does anybody know the purpose of this? It seems to have something to do with switching between batteries but I wonder what happens if it is not connected.

Edit: I found in the manual the D+ referred to as "alternator" connection, does this mean if this is not connected then the alternator is not charging either battery?

The D+ is a signal from the alternator, to show that it is producing charge. So it's on when the engine is running, and off when the engine stops. It is a very useful signal in a motorhome, used for switching all kinds of things on and off. For example the fridge 12V heater element, or making sure the awning light is off and the step is retracted while driving.

It also switches a relay to connect the starter battery and the leisure battery, so that the alternator can charge both.

If you want to know exactly what the D+ is, when you turn on the ignition, the dash lights go on - that's the ignition signal. When you start the engine, the alternator light goes off - that's the D+ signal..

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[meanders]

Of course it could just have been that the site hookup was reverse polarity thereby sucking all the power out instead of putting it in!



.... Joking.

 

[dayman1]

I think I successfully isolated the leisure system from the starter battery, but the starter battery has still drained after a couple of hours in the van. I'm really not sure what the problem is now as the leisure system seems to be working absolutely fine, it is strange but I will keep checking

 

[dayman1]

The D+ is a signal from the alternator, to show that it is producing charge. So it's on when the engine is running, and off when the engine stops. It is a very useful signal in a motorhome, used for switching all kinds of things on and off. For example the fridge 12V heater element, or making sure the awning light is off and the step is retracted while driving.

It also switches a relay to connect the starter battery and the leisure battery, so that the alternator can charge both.

If you want to know exactly what the D+ is, when you turn on the ignition, the dash lights go on - that's the ignition signal. When you start the engine, the alternator light goes off - that's the D+ signal..

thanks this is really helpful. Do you think if I have isolated the leisure system from the starter battery but haven't adequately disconnected the relay that you mentioned, that this could be causing the drain of the battery? I have found what I believe to be that relay so I may try and disconnect that next but I am unsure.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Are you 100% certain the vehicle battery is holding its charge & isn't goosed?

 

[dayman1]

I charged it with a smart charger a few times now and it seems to charge fine. It always starts the van first time after charging, but 3 or 4 hours later it is dead. I have also left it in the house disconnected overnight and it still was charged after that so it seems like something is draining it in the van. It’s in the van dead now though and I checked if any current was being drawn and it is only 40 mA. I am not sure though if this would be more if the battery was charged so I will probably charge again and check

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[autorouter]

It's hard to diagnose any faults without some measurements. You need a meter that will measure voltages as a minimum,. If you want to measure current flow, ie amps, the best thing is a clamp meter. The best thing about a clamp meter is that you just clamp it around the wire to measure the amps flowing through it. No faffing about disconnecting wires and inserting the meter probes, which is what you have to do if using a standard multimeter.

If you're buying a clamp meter, you need to know a couple of things. First, many clamp meters are aimed at the domestic electricians, and only measure AC amps, not DC amps. The technology to do this is slightly cheaper. Even if the meter is described as an 'AC/DC Clamp Meter', you have to read the small print, most of them don't do DC amps. A clamp meter will come with probes, and can use these probes to measure voltage, resistance etc just like a standard multimeter. This meter is very popular on here - I have one that I keep in the motorhome:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UNI-T-Resistance-Capacitance-Multimeter-Temperature/dp/B00O1Q2HOQ/?tag=mhf04-21

I have the UT210E model, which can measure up to 100A, but can also measure small drain currents which is more useful. The UT210D can measure up to 200A but isn't as good with small drain currents. Avoid the A, B and C models, they don't do DC amps at all.
Are you OK using a meter to measure voltages?

 

[Langtoftlad]

Could you possibly swap the starter battery with another, just temporarily, to rule out that it isn't actually a battery problem

 

[GeoffnDee]

Is the charge light on the dash working as it should as , if it is not , a faulty alternator could be causing your power drain.

 

[autorouter]

You can tell if the split charge relay is disconnecting properly when the engine stops, or if it's stuck closed, by measuring the voltage of the starter battery and the leisure battery. If they are always about the same as each other, then the relay is closed. If they are different, then the relay is not closed.

Another thing worth checking if the starter battery is draining is the amps through the alternator cable, when the engine is stopped. It should be zero, but if one of the alternator diodes has failed there may be a drain current. A clamp meter is good for checking this.

 

[dayman1]

It's hard to diagnose any faults without some measurements. You need a meter that will measure voltages as a minimum,. If you want to measure current flow, ie amps, the best thing is a clamp meter. The best thing about a clamp meter is that you just clamp it around the wire to measure the amps flowing through it. No faffing about disconnecting wires and inserting the meter probes, which is what you have to do if using a standard multimeter.

If you're buying a clamp meter, you need to know a couple of things. First, many clamp meters are aimed at the domestic electricians,mand only measure AC amps, not DC amps. The technology to do this is slightly cheaper. Even if the meter is described as an 'AC/DC Clamp Meter', you have to read the small print, most of them don't do DC amps. A clamp meter will come with probes, and can use these probes to measure voltage, resistance etc just like a standard multimeter. This meter is very popular on here - I have one that I keep in the motorhome:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UNI-T-Resistance-Capacitance-Multimeter-Temperature/dp/B00O1Q2HOQ/?tag=mhf04-21

Are you OK using a meter to measure voltages?

Yeah I have measured the voltage across the battery, even now when it is dead and disconnected it says 12.6v, and it said similar when it was charged up. When the engine was running it went up to 14.4v I don’t have a clamp meter but can measure the current by disconnecting as you mentioned.

Sitting in the van there I connected the battery back up again to see what happened, it won’t start and the dash stays completely blank, but the needles on all the gauges go nuts every few seconds is this normal? It seems to happen continually until I disconnect again

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[Langtoftlad]

Similar symptoms to my van recently.
The engine battery was completely and utterly knackered

 

[ChrisL]

Get yourself one of these, it will test your starter battery and also analyse your charging system. Note these are designed for starter batteries not leisure batteries.

TE503 6V 12V 24V Car Battery Tester, 100-2000 CCA Voltage Tester 2Ah-220Ah Digital Auto Battery Analyzer Internal Resistance Tester Automotive Alternator for Cars/Trucks/Motorcycles/Boats (TE503) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0B458GXVT?tag=mhf04-21

 

[autorouter]

even now when it is dead and disconnected it says 12.6v,

Can you put a small load on it, a couple of amps maybe, to see if the voltage drops substantially?

 

[TCG]

I charged it with a smart charger a few times now and it seems to charge fine. It always starts the van first time after charging, but 3 or 4 hours later it is dead. I have also left it in the house disconnected overnight and it still was charged after that so it seems like something is draining it in the van. It’s in the van dead now though and I checked if any current was being drawn and it is only 40 mA. I am not sure though if this would be more if the battery was charged so I will probably charge again and check

for the sake of £100 change the starter battery it sounds like it just not holding the charge

 

[dayman1]

Can you put a small load on it, a couple of amps maybe, to see if the voltage drops substantially?

is there an easy way to do this?

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