Spain - Roadside breakdown, a reminder

[gus-lopez]

Conflicting advice between countries......who do you think is offering the best advice ?


SPAIN




UK



My money is on the UK for two reasons

1.....its bloody dangerous

2......its illegal to walk on a motorway....even the hard shoulder.

Not in Spain as long as reflective jacket on. It is a legal requirement to place the triangles , exactly where @bryandh stated. Motorways here aren't as busy as the Uk, not where I live anyway . I've had to do the triangle walk before .

But as its illegal to walk on a UK motorway it cant be seen as advice...its the law.

Why then do they put up signs in the UK, that I take no notice of, telling you to slow down as there are people (illegally) walking on the motorway ?
Tough as far as I'm concerned . Usually illegals In the south.east.

But you can walk down a duel carriageway without any hard shoulder to place a warning triangle. Doesn't make sense.

If it is a dual carriageway here & my local road is then cyclists are also allowed on it using what passes for a hard shoulder. Additionally if the only road is a motorway , & this happens where they have built new ones & used part of the old leaving no other route except the service road, then cyclists can legally use the hard shoulder.

I have recounted only what I understood was being said to me yesterday but admit that, at times, my Spanish is not up to certain nuances, particularly faced with the Andalucian accent.
I will make it my business to find definitive information on this topic and publish it here in due course.
It is clear from contributions made to the thread that there are many doubters and non conformists out there and too many "I think", "I'm sure", etc. The thread is developing along the lines of that taken by the old perennial "the great A frame debate"
Sometimes it must be accepted that foreign law....... Is still the law and compliance cannot be a matter of choice.
More later, promise.

Bryan

& your Op was exactly what the law states . You understood perfectly. & yes ,unlike a Uk police patrol, the trafico will always render assistance.

What you should also be aware of is that it is also a requirement, on seeing a broken down vehicle ahead ,or a road maintenance vehicle, etc; to move over & give as much room as possible when passing. Basically go into the other lane. It is expected & even if there is someone running you down in the left lane you just indicate & move over. It is expected so don't be surprised when it is possibly done to you.

 

[Jim]

compliance cannot be a matter of choice.

It is a matter of choice. Its always a matter of choice.....and consequences

 

[Jim]

I thought it was two for Spain and one for France.

Looking around the advice is conflicting, most say Visitors only need one while residents need two Thats a strange rule if it's true.

 

[gus-lopez]

Looking around the advice is conflicting, most say Visitors only need one while residents need two Thats a strange rule if it's true.

No it's 2 for everybody regardless of what some "advice" givers say. Get 4 ,you can't have too many. Many spanish after putting them out,& getting repaired, won't even bother to collect them up.
Oh & reflective vests ,if you have a dog/s they need their own ones.

 

[Billy23]

Whenever Spain is mentioned, I notice that it hard for some realise that the laws are different and quite often start to bring up what happens in the UK.

When in Spain it is Spanish law that counts, silly to some, crazy to others but UK law does not cover Spain.

Oh, and the weather is still VERY good!

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[DavidG58]

Laws must be complied with or pay the price, but this placing of triangles is a nonsense, do it to avoid a fine, but if a lorry, motorhome or even a car cant be seen from 50m hand in your licence (please)

Just look on a motorway next time you are out, the countdown to junctions are marked with 3 bars then 2 bars then 1 either 100yds or 100 metres apart, use that as a reference, even if a triangle was placed at 300m you would (hopefully should) still see the vehicle first. Especially as it would almost certainly now be fitted with hazard lights

On single carriageway roads, especially close to a bend now then they could be excellent if well positioned

I regularly curse the placement of road works signs, by the time you see the sign for the traffic lights you can either see them of the back of the queue waiting for them, then they go home for the night and leave the signs out for the next day (grrr! )

If only the law and common sense could be merged, the correctly applied by all, there would be no need for enforcement, nothing would ever go wrong

 

[Billy23]

Laws must be complied with or pay the price, but this placing of triangles is a nonsense, do it to avoid a fine, but if a lorry, motorhome or even a car cant be seen from 50m hand in your licence (please)

Just look on a motorway next time you are out, the countdown to junctions are marked with 3 bars then 2 bars then 1 either 100yds or 100 metres apart, use that as a reference, even if a triangle was placed at 300m you would (hopefully should) still see the vehicle first. Especially as it would almost certainly now be fitted with hazard lights

On single carriageway roads, especially close to a bend now the they could be excellent if well positioned

I regularly curse the placement of road works signs, by the time you see the sign for the traffic lights you can either see them of the back of the queue waiting for them, the they go home for the night and leave the signs out for the next day (grrr! )

If only the law and common sense could be merged, the correctly applied by all, there would be no need for enforcement, nothing would ever go wrong

Agree with most of what you say.......BUT lots of vehicles get hit on hard shoulder and people sometimes killed, so perhaps the triangle it not a bad idea.

 

[DavidG58]

Agree with most of what you say.......BUT lots of vehicles get hit on hard shoulder and people sometimes killed, so perhaps the triangle it not a bad idea.

Agreed, but if they haven't seen you or your hazards, the slight bump and rattle of running over the triangle probably won't do much, sadly

 

[Chris]

I confess that I couldn't give a shit about breaking the law in Spain.

If we break down on the motorway the wife and kids are out and off the motorway before I even think about warning triangles or reflective vests.

Same applies here or in any other country.

 

[Billy23]

I confess that I couldn't give a shit about breaking the law in Spain.

If we break down on the motorway the wife and kids are out and off the motorway before I even think about warning triangles or reflective vests.

Same applies here or in any other country.

And that is just what you have to do in Spain, then you put on a vest IF you are still in the danger zone, so you won't have to give a shit.

And that makes sense to me.

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[Chris]

And that is just what you have to do in Spain, then you put on a vest IF you are still in the danger zone, so you won't have to give a shit.

And that makes sense to me.

I wasn't saying that the Spanish laws are bad, just that I don't care if I break them.

I don't always carry enough reflective vests for example.

 

[GeriatricWanderer]

I wasn't saying that the Spanish laws are bad, just that I don't care if I break them
.

So you're be quite happy for a visiting Spanish driver to break whatever UK laws that he chooses to?
Quite a moronic attitude, don't you think?

 

[Jim]

So you're be quite happy for a visiting Spanish driver to break whatever UK laws that he chooses to?
Quite a moronic attitude, don't you think?

Rather..only a moron would walk 100m on a live motorway to place a red triangle behind them just because a stupid law says they must.

 

[ianthebuilder]

send the wife !!!

 

[Landy lover]

From the AA web site worth noting the comment on towing vehicle in Croatia and also Switzerland's requirement !

(8) Spain: One warning triangle compulsory for non-Spanish registered vehicles; two for Spanish registered vehicles. Note: Drivers of non-Spanish registered vehicles should consider carrying two triangles as, regardless of regulations, local officials may impose an on-the-spot fine if only one is available. Croatia: Two triangles compulsory for vehicles towing a trailer. Switzerland: Warning triangle must be kept within easy reach (not in the boot).

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[Billy23]

Rather..only a moron would walk 100m on a live motorway to place a red triangle behind them just because a stupid law says they must.

But you don't walk 100 m on a live motorway, you walk along side the motorway, then place the triangle. I have yet to meet or hear of any driver/passenger being killed walking along the motorway and loosing his/her life. That could be because, in Spain, when you spot a broken down vehicle or triangle you move to the next lane so you are not (like the UK) brushing passed the people or vehicle on the hard shoulder.

Also should mention - once again unlike the UK - if you don't leave at least 1m between you and any cycle that you are overtaking, you get a stamp on your licence (yes on your UK licence now) and a stiff fine.

Stupid laws? Perhaps not.

 

[Jim]

Stupid laws? Perhaps not.

Warning triangles are great, they can provide an excellent warning of an oncoming hazard. Especially on roads with poor visibility or hazardous bends.

However a law encouraging people to walk on the motorway where vehicles are travelling at 100 feet per second is stupid, very stupid. Even walking on the hard shoulder is stupid. in the UK Hundreds of people die every year on the hard shoulder. You will not convince me the Spanish are right. While the sensible use of warning triangles is to be applauded. Encouraging people to stay on foot on a motorway a second longer than they need to is stupid.

 

[gus-lopez]

Agreed, but if they haven't seen you or your hazards, the slight bump and rattle of running over the triangle probably won't do much, sadly

Iy is the 50 gallon drum you lean it against that wakes them up.

I confess that I couldn't give a shit about breaking the law in Spain.

If we break down on the motorway the wife and kids are out and off the motorway before I even think about warning triangles or reflective vests.

Same applies here or in any other country.

you are quite right. p.s. They take only credit cards now .

Rather..only a moron would walk 100m on a live motorway to place a red triangle behind them just because a stupid law says they must.

As Billy said best to walk on other side of barrier as the hard shoulder can be busy with cyclists , walkers, tramps with dogs, even some with them on leads !!

Also should mention - once again unlike the UK - if you don't leave at least 1m between you and any cycle that you are overtaking, you get a stamp on your licence (yes on your UK licence now) and a stiff fine.

Stupid laws? Perhaps not.

I think it is actually 2m ,Billy. Either way on the local roads it normally means that you cannot legally overtake them especially if they are in two's, side by side.

 

[Billy23]

Warning triangles are great, they can provide an excellent warning of an oncoming hazard. Especially on roads with poor visibility or hazardous bends.

However a law encouraging people to walk on the motorway where vehicles are travelling at 100 feet per second is stupid, very stupid. Even walking on the hard shoulder is stupid. in the UK Hundreds of people die every year on the hard shoulder. You will not convince me the Spanish are right. While the sensible use of warning triangles is to be applauded. Encouraging people to stay on foot on a motorway a second longer than they need to is stupid.

Jim, the last thing I want it to disagree but, the hundreds of people getting killed in the UK on the hard shoulder, is exactly that.....on the hard shoulder! As I said in my post, they do not ask you or make you walk along the hard shoulder, the fact is that most motorways in Spain do not have barriers on the hard shoulder, so you would evacuate your passengers, they would walk onto the grass or mud area AWAY from the hard shoulder, you (the driver) would walk along the grass/mud the required distance and place the triangle onto the hard shoulder, then retreat to a safe area. I think that is difficult to do in the UK as they do have barriers along the hard shoulder, having said that, in Spain, France or the UK barriers are very easy to climb over into the safe area. Perhaps it is the stupid people that stay on the hard shoulder that unfortunately get killed.

 

[Jim]

As Billy said best to walk on other side of barrier as the hard shoulder can be busy with cyclists , walkers, tramps with dogs, even some with them on leads !!

Yes, you see this in a lot of third world countries

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[Jim]

Jim, the last thing I want it to disagree but, the hundreds of people getting killed in the UK on the hard shoulder, is exactly that.....on the hard shoulder! As I said in my post, they do not ask you or make you walk along the hard shoulder, the fact is that most motorways in Spain do not have barriers on the hard shoulder, so you would evacuate your passengers, they would walk onto the grass or mud area AWAY from the hard shoulder, you (the driver) would walk along the grass/mud the required distance and place the triangle onto the hard shoulder, then retreat to a safe area. I think that is difficult to do in the UK as they do have barriers along the hard shoulder, having said that, in Spain, France or the UK barriers are very easy to climb over into the safe area. Perhaps it is the stupid people that stay on the hard shoulder that unfortunately get killed.

So they don't make you walk on the hard shoulder. So you throw the triangle into the hard shoulder? IMO The UK have it right and Spain is Wrong.

 

[bryandh]

Can just imagine some of these fatuous comments working with Mr Guardia Civil as he licks his pencil to write out the € 200 "multa" for non compliance. " think your laws are wrong/stupid/dangerous", ain't gonna work guys.

Hopefully it will not become an issue for travelling members.

Bryan

 

[The Wino]

That is no different, in law, to walking on the tarmac....you are still under motorway regulations until you are behind the perimeter fencing.

But I bet most people who break down don't walk up the embankment and climb over the perimeter fence!!!. Seems reasonable to me to walk along behind the crash barrier and place a triangle and I would be suprised if the police prosecuted but I wouldn't bother at motorway speed it would only be seen at the same time as the car a lot better to put hazard lights on and get out of the way of any sleepy truckers!!

 

[mike mcglynn]

As to people walking along the motorway hard shoulder I have seen this many times as I used to work on the docks the last time was a group of Chinese seamen who managed to get into the wallasey tunnel about 20 of them in single file, the police had to close the tunnel to sort it out mayhem ensued.

 

[bryandh]

That is no different, in law, to walking on the tarmac....you are still under motorway regulations until you are behind the perimeter fencing.

Think your interpretation of the law is wrong. As I remember, among the many prohibition signs at the start of motorways is the icon of a person on foot. This clearly, to me, is a prohibition against using this roadway as a route from A to B. I believe it does not refer to emergency situations like walking to an emergency phone or placing warning triangles although the latter does not, apparently, apply in the UK.

Bryan

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[Zigisla]

What is the difference between motorway speed and dual carriageway? Nothing, so why do people object to putting triangles on a motorway using hard shoulder, but would put them on a dual carriageway with no prot cation at all. If you would walk 1/2 mile to a phone walk Back the way you came to the phone and put triangle there.

 

[Jim]

I have broken down on a Northern Spanish motorway in a motorhome, albeit 20 years ago. A trailer blew a tyre. I didn't put a triangle out and the police took the trailer off the motorway for me after escorting me off. Maybe they are not as helpful these days

What is the difference between motorway speed and dual carriageway? Nothing, so why do people object to putting triangles on a motorway using hard shoulder, but would put them on a dual carriageway with no prot cation at all. If you would walk 1/2 mile to a phone walk Back the way you came to the phone and put triangle there.

No difference at all. Its all about personal safety and common sense. If there were the caveat in the law "If it's safe to do so" then that would be sensible. Maybe it is there already, if it isn't then it should be.

 

[peterc10]

I may be getting intolerant in my old age but here is my opinion ......

I have absolutely no sympathy with anybody who breaks the law in another country and then moans when they get arrested/fined/jailed etc. Like the guy caught with home brew in Saudi Arabia. Just as I have no sympathy with any foreigner doing the same in the UK.

My own view is that, whether you like the law or not, you obey it. If you dislike the law in a particular country so much that you refuse to obey it then you should not visit or live in that country.

I want to thank the OP for pointing out to me the law in Spain, which I was not fully aware of - I knew I should have 2 triangles but not where to put them. IF I have the misfortune to break down in Spain I will do what their law tells me. If I happen to be on a motorway I will follow it by getting as far as I can away from the carriageway and then walking parallel with it until I am the required distance away then walking back and leaning over any barrier to place the warning triangle. In my own opinion that is a lot less dangerous than walking along a stretch of 2 way road with no paths or verges to put a triangle out, especially in the dark.

PS. As far as I can see the suggestion that "hundreds of people die on the hard shoulder each year in the UK" is wrong. In 2013 the total deaths on UK motorways was 100, and the suggestion is that about one in ten fatalities on the motorways occur on the hard shoulder.

 

[bryandh]

Have driven thousands of miles on Spanish motorway network and often wonder " why did they bother? The vast majority of them are mainly deserted for most of the day anyway, and as we don't travel at night, never been an issue we considered.
Not that we have broken down often thankfully.

Bryan

 

[Zigisla]

Having never driven in Spain, I am probable not really in a position to argue any point. Is there differences on Spanish motorways? Are they slower in general. Safer by design. If all Spanish seem to think it is fine, what gives anyone especially a foreigner the right to choose which laws to obey? Speeders don't think the law should apply to them, but what are your thoughts an them? Should speeders get away with breaking the law just because they think it is stupid. I think this thread has turned into another one of those never ending circles.

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