Some observations re lithium and small Genny?

[Bessy765]

Cost us about £12k to have enough power to run air con and everything else off grid

Ours came to £8,008 we spend months away at a time off grid. (Or used to??) have some land in France well away from causing any noise problems not that we plan to run the Genny but nice to know what it can do. Worked hard all our lives, came awake on the right side of the grass this morning, not making any interest to speak off in the bank. So why not.

 

[Bessy765]

Hi Bessy765, you say you have 700watts of solar which is great but only 200ah of LiFePO4 I think you will find in the sunny times that you have more solar than you know what to do with, a bit more LiFePO4 would allow full electric operation from your inverter for a few days without sun and then a good day and all fully charged again, or do you plan to carry the generator with you? we only have 520watts of solar but have 460ah of LiFePO4

Although we have a Burstner Iexo 736, most of the storage space is behind the rear axle, I did not want the equipment installed in the gas locker, one the availability of lpg is getting a bit patchy where we are, and the gas locker is not the most secure. We have an underslung tank, shortly to have a second one fitted, have found although the van is warm it scoffs the gas. So we have set it up to be able to use a bottle or use the locker for the muddy stuff. We have had the Transporter batteries fitted under the seats in Kevlar boxes. And the Victron recessed in the space to the right of the drivers seat. And at £1000 each battery (10 year warranty) will see how we go. When the engine is at around 1500 revs we get up to 80 amps charging to the batteries. And as we move every three to four days if touring hopefully will be ok. As stated we had all the gear fitted Dec 21 but owing to the DVLA still sorting out my licence (sent it off June 21) we cant cross the channel. Thank you for your input.

 

[PeterCarole29]

Ours came to £8,008 we spend months away at a time off grid. (Or used to??) have some land in France well away from causing any noise problems not that we plan to run the Genny but nice to know what it can do. Worked hard all our lives, came awake on the right side of the grass this morning, not making any interest to speak off in the bank. So why not.

Agreed why not indeed

 

[PeterCarole29]

Sorry if this is a long post but not the best at explaining. Having recently had a lithium upgrade, as previousl posted we have 700 watts of solar a Victron 2000/80 multi and 2 x 100 amp transporter Lithium batteries.
as we are still waiting for good old DVLA i thought I would have a little play and found the following
the Genny is a Honda EU10i running on lpg.
using the inverter only running the Dometic Fresh jet 2200 set to max cooling draws 103.3 amps with the Genny set at 4 amps @ 240 the battery consumption falls to 55 amps. Setting the Fresh jet to max heating uses 83 amps dropping to 33 amps with Genny set at 4 amps
Truma heating set at 1kw draws 83.1 amps again dropping by app 50 amps when Genny flat out, 2 kw draws 195 amps again dropping by app 50 amps with Genny set at 4 amps.
Dometic fridge on mains supplied by inverter only takes 15.4 amps,

Genny only charging the batteries through the multi, set mains input at 2 amps Genny stays on its idle setting producing 30.3 amps to the batteries, up the incoming from the Genny to 2.5 amps produces 36 amps Genny just a fraction above idle, up to 3 amps Genny increases but not flat out produces 43.3 amps, upto 3.5 amp from Genny produces 48.7 amps, Genny flat out 57 amps charging.

this again is not about the pros and cons of using a Genny but simply to give anyone who is interested some idea of what uses what and what produces what

I found it interesting. understood the concept .Interestingly made me think could it work on our house to go off grid .
I have a Hyundi 6kw diesel stand by long run generator have thought about solar and battery bank

 

[Raul]

Hi Bessy765, you say you have 700watts of solar which is great but only 200ah of LiFePO4 I think you will find in the sunny times that you have more solar than you know what to do with, a bit more LiFePO4 would allow full electric operation from your inverter for a few days without sun and then a good day and all fully charged again, or do you plan to carry the generator with you? we only have 520watts of solar but have 460ah of LiFePO4

Agree with you on this, we have 400ah LFP and 820w solar. I’m looking to add 200ah under the seat. Prices have come down now compared to 2018-19 prices on LFP. Maybe this summer I will add more.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bigtwin]

That’s the sort of ignorant comment that could discourage people from posting

Jeez, it was a joke (as evidenced by the multiple emojis) and it was aimed principally at Martin (funflair) as he is one of the, relatively, few who have load sharing on their vans.

I understood (well, I was as sure as I could be from your description) that you were describing a load sharing arrangement.

Ian

PS Never forget that this is MH Fun.

 

[bigtwin]

As I said not best at explaining, the Genny was set at 4 amps @ 240 ac by the load share facility of my Victron so the load on the batteries was reduced by app 50 amps. This was just a play around to find out what variations would accomplish

The load sharing capability is aimed principally at camp site use where, on the continent at least, site supplies may be limited to as low as 4A with some at 6A, others at 10a and some giving the full 16A.

Ian

 

[Bessy765]

Jeez, it was a joke (as evidenced by the multiple emojis) and it was aimed principally at Martin (funflair) as he is one of the, relatively, few who have load sharing on their vans.

I understood (well, I was as sure as I could be from your description) that you were describing a load sharing arrangement.

Ian

PS Never forget that this is MH Fun.

Point taken, stay safe

 

[stewartwebr]

The load sharing capability is aimed principally at camp site use where, on the continent at least, site supplies may be limited to as low as 4A with some at 6A, others at 10a and some giving the full 16A.

Ian

Ian, the load share capacity is also extremely helpful in reverse, when charging the cells. Friends recently installed a Dometic Generator and were having issues. The generator they installed had a max output of 2500Kva and it was running a Buttner 120amp charger with a peak load of similar capacity, therefore with their fridge also changing to mains they quickly exceeded max gen output and generator was tripping on overload.
The generator installer had no idea and was oblivious to the loads these sort of chargers can pull. But setting the current limit on the Buttner obviously kept the max load below that of the max capacity of the generator. I did tell them to go for the bigger generator but were sold on the “quieter” model. It may be slightly quieter but needs to run longer, another of life compromises

 

[bigtwin]

Ian, the load share capacity is also extremely helpful in reverse, when charging the cells. Friends recently installed a Dometic Generator and were having issues. The generator they installed had a max output of 2500Kva and it was running a Buttner 120amp charger with a peak load of similar capacity, therefore with their fridge also changing to mains they quickly exceeded max gen output and generator was tripping on overload.
The generator installer had no idea and was oblivious to the loads these sort of chargers can pull. But setting the current limit on the Buttner obviously kept the max load below that of the max capacity of the generator. I did tell them to go for the bigger generator but were sold on the “quieter” model. It may be slightly quieter but needs to run longer, another of life compromises

Yes, I hadn’t thought about onboard generators.*

I guess, ideally, anyone running an inverter ought to have sufficient battery power on board to make it viable. The advent of LiFePo should help in that regard.

What sort of ac current do those large chargers consume (circa 6A?) and could it be too much for a low current EHU?

Ian

* I have desisted adding any comments about showing off!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jongood]

.

I found it interesting. understood the concept .Interestingly made me think could it work on our house to go off grid .
I have a Hyundi 6kw diesel stand by long run generator have thought about solar and battery bank

I've been toying with this also. I've got 7ish kws of solar on the house roof and plenty of space for batteries. So I've been pondering making my own battery pack up and using my own stored power in the summer months. One of the stumbling blocks seems to be the inversion back and forth from Dc to Ac.

 

[funflair]

Yes, I hadn’t thought about onboard generators.*

I guess, ideally, anyone running an inverter ought to have sufficient battery power on board to make it viable. The advent of LiFePo should help in that regard.

What sort of ac current do those large chargers consume (circa 6A?) and could it be too much for a low current EHU?

Ian

* I have desisted adding any comments about showing off!

The Buttner 3kw inverter/charger is 120 amps so close to 10 amps from the AC, on a low current hook up you would set the supply current on the control panel to something like 4 amps and the box of tricks will sort itself out and not trip the post, obviously charge time would be increased.

 

[Raul]

.

I've been toying with this also. I've got 7ish kws of solar on the house roof and plenty of space for batteries. So I've been pondering making my own battery pack up and using my own stored power in the summer months. One of the stumbling blocks seems to be the inversion back and forth from Dc to Ac.

It’s not issue there with victron multiplus/Quattro inverters. They are bi directional so power can flow either way. Dc one way ac the other. You can retrofit a victron after your AC grid tie inverter and run it in ESS mode. Read on victron website about ESS, and what models are accredited for UK grid. It’s been done for years. You will be running at 48v for obvious reasons.

 

[Tony50]

It’s not issue there with victron multiplus/Quattro inverters. They are bi directional so power can flow either way. Dc one way ac the other. You can retrofit a victron after your AC grid tie inverter and run it in ESS mode. Read on victron website about ESS, and what models are accredited for UK grid. It’s been done for years. You will be running at 48v for obvious reasons.

Very interesting Post , I wish I had this sort of Electrical knowledge, thanks to everyone who contributed positively to this Post.