So Lithium in a Swift, who what and where? (1 Viewer)

[barryd]

I recently rejoined so please forgive me if its already being discussed. Well I know it has as I had a rake round but but I thought I would start a new thread specifically for my requirements.

I was set to go to VanBitz in Taunton this week to get our very new to us 2015 Swift Esprit 496 upgraded to a better solar and battery solution to the one it came with just a few weeks ago but they dont have time to do exactly what I wanted and I wasn't happy with what they are proposing so I am going to mull over it and work towards a solution for when we get home in the Autumn.

Our circumstances are a bit different to most. We off grid 90% of the time but certainly in the UK at least we use a lot of off grid CLs and often stay in one place for several weeks, maybe a month or more without moving the van. On our old van we had just a single 120ah AGM battery, single 100w panel and a very good MPPT controller and April to the end of August most of the time it was fine. This one isnt cutting the mustard but I think the battery is knackered so a new one on the way. All we power is two laptops, two smart phones, water, lights, TV, sat dish etc. Not much else but I would like to just not have to be stingy on power if there are say a few dull days like there have been recently down here in Dorset.

My thoughts were 200w of Solar and 200w of Lithium. I am aware that its not a case of drop in with these. New 240v charger, regulators etc, and it all needs to be integrated with the Swift system which on this one is a Sargent EC400.

So I guess my questions are has anyone gone this route with a Swift van and the same Sargent system and who did you use, how much did it cost and what was the outcome?

Ideally I want to find a Lithium solar guru somewhere up north who can sort it properly.

 

[headlight]

I recently rejoined so please forgive me if its already being discussed. Well I know it has as I had a rake round but but I thought I would start a new thread specifically for my requirements.

I was set to go to VanBitz in Taunton this week to get our very new to us 2015 Swift Esprit 496 upgraded to a better solar and battery solution to the one it came with just a few weeks ago but they dont have time to do exactly what I wanted and I wasn't happy with what they are proposing so I am going to mull over it and work towards a solution for when we get home in the Autumn.

Our circumstances are a bit different to most. We off grid 90% of the time but certainly in the UK at least we use a lot of off grid CLs and often stay in one place for several weeks, maybe a month or more without moving the van. On our old van we had just a single 120ah AGM battery, single 100w panel and a very good MPPT controller and April to the end of August most of the time it was fine. This one isnt cutting the mustard but I think the battery is knackered so a new one on the way. All we power is two laptops, two smart phones, water, lights, TV, sat dish etc. Not much else but I would like to just not have to be stingy on power if there are say a few dull days like there have been recently down here in Dorset.

My thoughts were 200w of Solar and 200w of Lithium. I am aware that its not a case of drop in with these. New 240v charger, regulators etc, and it all needs to be integrated with the Swift system which on this one is a Sargent EC400.

So I guess my questions are has anyone gone this route with a Swift van and the same Sargent system and who did you use, how much did it cost and what was the outcome?

Ideally I want to find a Lithium solar guru somewhere up north who can sort it properly.

In my Swift I have fitted 230 watts solar, MPPT, 230AH LifePo4, 60 amp B2B and 2000 watt inverter.
This is all wired up seperate to my onboard systems, not integrated.
After speaking to both Fogstar and Vanbitz I have left the Sargent PX300 mains charger in situ as we only go on EHU a couple of nights a year, and the charger charges at 14.4v and floats at 13.6v.
This will only charge the battery to about 85 - 90% but as we would be on hook up that doesn't matter and the charger won't damage the battery.
With this set up and our usage we can off grid permanently in the UK.
In winter we can do 4 days with no charge input from solar or B2B just the battery.

 

[TCG]

in our Autotrail (Ok not a Swift but still uses Sargent electrics)
560 ah lithium, 300 watts solar, Victron MPPT, Victron BMV712 Shunt, Victron Orion B2B, Victron Multi plus 2000 inverter charger.

This is all run independent from the Sargent system, which effectively only manages the 12 volt Dc system now. we are very happy and the boss does not even know if we are on EHU or not and why would she care

 

[barryd]

In my Swift I have fitted 230 watts solar, MPPT, 230AH LifePo4, 60 amp B2B and 2000 watt inverter.
This is all wired up seperate to my onboard systems, not integrated.
After speaking to both Fogstar and Vanbitz I have left the Sargent PX300 mains charger in situ as we only go on EHU a couple of nights a year, and the charger charges at 14.4v and floats at 13.6v.
This will only charge the battery to about 85 - 90% but as we would be on hook up that doesn't matter and the charger won't damage the battery.
With this set up and our usage we can off grid permanently in the UK.
In winter we can do 4 days with no charge input from solar or B2B just the battery.

Thanks. Interesting that you left the Sargent 240v charger as is as I am sure VanBitz were suggesting it would need changing on mine.

Who did the work if you dont mind me asking?

 

[barryd]

in our Autotrail (Ok not a Swift but still uses Sargent electrics)
560 ah lithium, 300 watts solar, Victron MPPT, Victron BMV712 Shunt, Victron Orion B2B, Victron Multi plus 2000 inverter charger.

This is all run independent from the Sargent system, which effectively only manages the 12 volt Dc system now. we are very happy and the boss does not even know if we are on EHU or not and why would she care

Yeah you are not going to care if you are on Ehu or not with that lot!

Its all new to me as my last van was a Kontiki from the last century but how is it independent from the Sargent system, does it not have to go through that on 12v to operate all the lights, water etc or is the Sargent system just used when on hookup? This might sound like a dumb question but Im just trying to understand it all on the fly really (on tour).

Who fitted it all for you?

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[eddie]

Thanks. Interesting that you left the Sargent 240v charger as is as I am sure VanBitz were suggesting it would need changing on mine.

Who did the work if you dont mind me asking?

No, he has had an inverter/ charger fitted, so the Sargent “charger bit” would be disconnected from the mains, but everything else would operate normally

 

[headlight]

Thanks. Interesting that you left the Sargent 240v charger as is as I am sure VanBitz were suggesting it would need changing on mine.

Who did the work if you dont mind me asking?

I was told that as my mains charger is just a lead acid charger, no other charge profiles, and as I only hook up a couple of nights a year out of the 100 or so nights we use the motorhome that it would be OK.
Your charger may be different to mine though.
As for fitting Vanbitz did most of it. I fitted a second solar panel, the Lifepo4 battery and inverter.
I also have a Victron smart shunt that shows me exactly what the system is doing.
I can highly recommend Vanbitz who have also fitted a solar system to my sisters motorhome.

 

[headlight]

No, he has had an inverter/ charger fitted, so the Sargent “charger bit” would be disconnected from the mains, but everything else would operate normally

No the Sargent charger is still connected and works if I connect to EHU.
I fitted a 2000 watt inverter directly off the battery myself.

 

[GeoffnDee]

There is information at www.sargentltd.co.uk regarding their chargers and fitting lithium batteries that may be useful (in their support section)

 

[TCG]

Yeah you are not going to care if you are on Ehu or not with that lot!

Its all new to me as my last van was a Kontiki from the last century but how is it independent from the Sargent system, does it not have to go through that on 12v to operate all the lights, water etc or is the Sargent system just used when on hookup? This might sound like a dumb question but Im just trying to understand it all on the fly really (on tour).

Who fitted it all for you?

From the Sargent system there is a wire with a 20amp fuse that goes to the Battery this wire is still in place and therefore manages the 12 volt side.. the solar was disconnected from the Sargent, because Sargent told me that their solar charger could only handle 100watts, plus it is very basic.
the Victron Multi plus manages the 240 volt charging and power to all sockets when off grid

so to be exact the Sargent manages the 12 volt DC... and the heating when on EHU

the fitting was done by a couple of suppliers as i had it fitted in stages But Off grid comes well recommended with good prices and a funster 10% discount

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[eddie]

in our Autotrail (Ok not a Swift but still uses Sargent electrics)
560 ah lithium, 300 watts solar, Victron MPPT, Victron BMV712 Shunt, Victron Orion B2B, Victron Multi plus 2000 inverter charger.

This is all run independent from the Sargent system, which effectively only manages the 12 volt Dc system now. we are very happy and the boss does not even know if we are on EHU or not and why would she care

No the Sargent charger is still connected and works if I connect to EHU.
I fitted a 2000 watt inverter directly off the battery myself.

Yes sorry, i misquoted you, as I read TCG’s post where an inverter charger ghas been installed

 

[barryd]

This is all great and useful stuff thanks for all the help. Its a learning curve. I want to fully understand the system and whats required so hopefully ill get it right first time.

 

[headlight]

This is all great and useful stuff thanks for all the help. Its a learning curve. I want to fully understand the system and whats required so hopefully ill get it right first time.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the problem with what Vanbitz were proposing to do ?

 

[Jo662]

We had lithium fitted by AshVanBitz along with a B2B ,Multiplus charger/inverter and a Victron BMV712 Shunt. We already had a Votronic MPPT controller and 150 watt solar panel. They bypassed the Sargent charger because it didn’t have a lithium profile,hence the Victron Multiplus
It all works seemlessly,and I’m really happy with the way Vanbitz fitted it all.

 

[Dolmen]

In my Swift I have fitted 230 watts solar, MPPT, 230AH LifePo4, 60 amp B2B and 2000 watt inverter.
This is all wired up seperate to my onboard systems, not integrated.
After speaking to both Fogstar and Vanbitz I have left the Sargent PX300 mains charger in situ as we only go on EHU a couple of nights a year, and the charger charges at 14.4v and floats at 13.6v.
This will only charge the battery to about 85 - 90% but as we would be on hook up that doesn't matter and the charger won't damage the battery.
With this set up and our usage we can off grid permanently in the UK.
In winter we can do 4 days with no charge input from solar or B2B just the battery.

Mine is a much simpler system, no solar, 230ah lithium, b2b and a battery master. Like yourself the PX300 Sargent was left in place and charges the lithium no problem when on ehu, albeit at a much slower rate than the b2b as it is also powering everything else when on hook up and I think as a max output of 25a.

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[berni109]

Back to the original post.
Can't understand why you want it integrated with the original sargent gubbins. Just leave that to take care of the 12v consumers in the van.
Get as much solar on the roof as a new mppt solar controller will support.
Get a battery to battery charger - think renogy do one with mppt built in - keep in mind the max charge capacity of the battery.
For the few times you might need a mains charger get a standalone one with the right profile.

 

[barryd]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the problem with what Vanbitz were proposing to do ?

I called them out of the blue after we had solar and battery problems after about six days off grid on this trip. They did have a slot the following week which I booked but the proposal was for 2 x 85ah Lead Carbon and an extra solar panel but I think the price was going to be in the region of £2k. It was nearly a £1000 for the two lead carbon batteries which included the fitting and a battery master. They could do a Lithium install but as it took longer (and presumably more money) they couldnt do it until the end of August / early September. Initially I thought I would go ahead but on reflection I thought well its really not what I wanted so cancelled. I might still get them to quote and get it done on the way home in October but Im wondering now if I should suss out someone closer to home and / or spend the winter learning a bit more and making sure I get the right system for next year.

I have a guy coming on Monday off the Wildies forum to help me fit a new temporary 120ah battery and some other bits as we think the one that came with this van is knackered. That should get us through the summer at least, if not ill just find CLs with hookup or tour about a bit more.

 

[Ditcha]

I recently rejoined so please forgive me if its already being discussed. Well I know it has as I had a rake round but but I thought I would start a new thread specifically for my requirements.

I was set to go to VanBitz in Taunton this week to get our very new to us 2015 Swift Esprit 496 upgraded to a better solar and battery solution to the one it came with just a few weeks ago but they dont have time to do exactly what I wanted and I wasn't happy with what they are proposing so I am going to mull over it and work towards a solution for when we get home in the Autumn.

Our circumstances are a bit different to most. We off grid 90% of the time but certainly in the UK at least we use a lot of off grid CLs and often stay in one place for several weeks, maybe a month or more without moving the van. On our old van we had just a single 120ah AGM battery, single 100w panel and a very good MPPT controller and April to the end of August most of the time it was fine. This one isnt cutting the mustard but I think the battery is knackered so a new one on the way. All we power is two laptops, two smart phones, water, lights, TV, sat dish etc. Not much else but I would like to just not have to be stingy on power if there are say a few dull days like there have been recently down here in Dorset.

My thoughts were 200w of Solar and 200w of Lithium. I am aware that its not a case of drop in with these. New 240v charger, regulators etc, and it all needs to be integrated with the Swift system which on this one is a Sargent EC400.

So I guess my questions are has anyone gone this route with a Swift van and the same Sargent system and who did you use, how much did it cost and what was the outcome?

Ideally I want to find a Lithium solar guru somewhere up north who can sort it properly.

Have a word with these guy's funster discount as well.

Offgrid Power Solutions

Offgrid Power Solutions We are specialists in LiFePO4 batteries & Victron Energy systems. We’re here to help build the best offgrid electrical systems so you can focus on your adventure without stressing about how much power you have left! Get in touch with us about how we can help

www.google.com

 

[ALI G]

Definitely Off grid power solutions. Great guys no hard sell will only fit what you need.They fitted our under seat 230amp lithium battery best thing we've done.

 

[canopus]

Another shout from me for Offgrid Power Solutions. They will provide and install you with all you need.

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[arthur49]

Ideally I want to find a Lithium solar guru somewhere up north who can sort it properly.

Danny Parker was Chief Engineer at Wildax until recently. I have found him very well informed and helpful, and he is "up north"!

Services | Parkers MHS

www.parkersmhs.co.uk

 

[headlight]

I called them out of the blue after we had solar and battery problems after about six days off grid on this trip. They did have a slot the following week which I booked but the proposal was for 2 x 85ah Lead Carbon and an extra solar panel but I think the price was going to be in the region of £2k. It was nearly a £1000 for the two lead carbon batteries which included the fitting and a battery master. They could do a Lithium install but as it took longer (and presumably more money) they couldnt do it until the end of August / early September. Initially I thought I would go ahead but on reflection I thought well its really not what I wanted so cancelled. I might still get them to quote and get it done on the way home in October but Im wondering now if I should suss out someone closer to home and / or spend the winter learning a bit more and making sure I get the right system for next year.

I have a guy coming on Monday off the Wildies forum to help me fit a new temporary 120ah battery and some other bits as we think the one that came with this van is knackered. That should get us through the summer at least, if not ill just find CLs with hookup or tour about a bit more.

I would imagine that lead carbons were suggested due to your usage as if your usage required lithium I am sure that that is what would have been suggested.
Lithiums are not needed for the way a lot of people use their vans.
For instance my sister bought a 2012 motorhome this March.
We discussed her intended use, which is different to mine.
She went to VanBitz and had a 175 watt solar panel fitted and a Battery Master.
Then I fitted 2 x 110AH lead acid leisure batteries, a small 300 watt inverter, a double 3 pin socket with 2 USB outlets and a cheap battery monitor.
So far this year she has used her motorhome more than me and the set up has worked fine for her.

 

[barryd]

I would imagine that lead carbons were suggested due to your usage as if your usage required lithium I am sure that that is what would have been suggested.
Lithiums are not needed for the way a lot of people use their vans.
For instance my sister bought a 2012 motorhome this March.
We discussed her intended use, which is different to mine.
She went to VanBitz and had a 175 watt solar panel fitted and a Battery Master.
Then I fitted 2 x 110AH lead acid leisure batteries, a small 300 watt inverter, a double 3 pin socket with 2 USB outlets and a cheap battery monitor.
So far this year she has used her motorhome more than me and the set up has worked fine for her.

Not so sure. Maybe but I think it was also the time constraints. I suspect you are right though, we probably don't need Lithium but lead carbon seemed like a backward step to me like buying a big massive old style TV instead of a flat screen.

For years we managed April to September on just a 100w panel, MPPT controller and a very good 120ah AGM battery. When the weather is not so good though I do feel like we have to be careful and with us spending weeks on end sometimes without ever moving the van I wanted the best. Touch wood we will keep this van as long as the last one (16 years) and a really good solar and battery system would be the icing on the cake for me. If we get three or four days of rain I want to be able to sit inside and not worry about the TV or laptop etc. Weight is not too much of an issue in this van but I also like the fact that the Lithiums are half the weight and I gather some of them have ten year warranties which is ridiculous.

 

[barryd]

Another shout from me for Offgrid Power Solutions. They will provide and install you with all you need.

These guys are sounding promising. Ill talk to them

 

[barryd]

I've contacted "Off Grid Solutions", given them all the details. Will see what they come back with.

I just looked at the map and when we finish our south west tour Wantage really isnt that far off the route home so it could work. I know the area well. Got family there.

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[ALI G]

I've contacted "Off Grid Solutions", given them all the details. Will see what they come back with.

I just looked at the map and when we finish our south west tour Wantage really isnt that far off the route home so it could work. I know the area well. Got family there.

You can stay there overnight too

 

[barryd]

You can stay there overnight too

Good to know. The main thing I would want to do is stay overnight after the install. Its a long drive back from Richmond at the top of North Yorkshire if its not right. Will see what they come up with. I budgeted around £1500-£2000 for either one big lithium or 2 smaller ones, an extra panel and all the controllers etc. Is that wishful thinking or realistic? I bet it will be more like £3k.

 

[ALI G]

Good to know. The main thing I would want to do is stay overnight after the install. Its a long drive back from Richmond at the top of North Yorkshire if its not right. Will see what they come up with. I budgeted around £1500-£2000 for either one big lithium or 2 smaller ones, an extra panel and all the controllers etc. Is that wishful thinking or realistic? I bet it will be more like £3k.

We already had 300w of solar and a b2b so it was just a battery install for us but our charger and solar controller although not the best seems to be working ok for our needs.as I said no hard sell just Roger said see you you get on with it. Don't forget your funster discount. good luck.

 

[barryd]

We already had 300w of solar and a b2b so it was just a battery install for us but our charger and solar controller although not the best seems to be working ok for our needs.as I said no hard sell just Roger said see you you get on with it. Don't forget your funster discount. good luck.

Cheers. I reckon it might be best to get it done darn sarf! Its lovely where we live but oop Norf but finding experts to do this kind of stuff is not so easy.

 

[SSILVO]

Thanks. Interesting that you left the Sargent 240v charger as is as I am sure VanBitz were suggesting it would need changing on mine.

Who did the work if you dont mind me asking?

I had my bessacarr done at vanbitz and they left the sergeant gear in place too..works perfectly.

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