Smart/Non Smart Alternator with Lithium Battery

Kayak Kid

Kayak Kid

Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Posts
427
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Location
Kilsyth, Glasgow, UK
Funster No
29,424
MH
Coachbuilt
Exp
Since 2013
I was seeking advice previously on here on changing to a lithium battery and fitting a B2B charger.
Just getting back to the task now after the festive break.

To date I have purchased a Fogstar 230ah Lithium Battery, a Victron Orion TR-Smart 30a B2B charger and swapped my existing onboard 230v charger with a Victron 30a charger with Lithium profile. I am not currently planning to fit solar but may do at a future point.

My question today relates to the fact that contrary to my initial understanding and surprise, my 2020 Fiat Ducato based Motorhome does not have a smart alternator. Can someone tell me please if that makes a difference - and if that changes what I am fitting.

Thanks
Jim
 
Kayak Kid said:
I was seeking advice previously on here on changing to a lithium battery and fitting a B2B charger.
Just getting back to the task now after the festive break.

To date I have purchased a Fogstar 230ah Lithium Battery, a Victron Orion TR-Smart 30a B2B charger and swapped my existing onboard 230v charger with a Victron 30a charger with Lithium profile. I am not currently planning to fit solar but may do at a future point.

My question today relates to the fact that contrary to my initial understanding and surprise, my 2020 Fiat Ducato based Motorhome does not have a smart alternator. Can someone tell me please if that makes a difference - and if that changes what I am fitting.

Thanks
Jim
Click to expand...
NO, fit the b2b anyway,

check if your van already has a VSR (relay) though that connects disconnects the hab battery from cab, as this can create a charging loop.
it can be overcome by various ways depending on van type and VSR setup
 
You could read my post. “Update on lithium“ This may help although I have 2 solar panels.
Before buying more kit try it without just using the existing set up.
Phil
 
Gaston aires said:
You could read my post. “Update on lithium“ This may help although I have 2 solar panels.
Before buying more kit try it without just using the existing set up.
Phil
Click to expand...
Hi
Thanks for that.

Had a read through - and apologies if I have missed it - but can’t see the answer to my question on whether it makes any difference if the alternator is Smart or Non Smart with my installation of Lithium battery, Victron B2B and Victron charger.

Have I missed it?

Jim
 
I would doubt that your MH has a dumb alternator. My 2017 model has a smart version.

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The B2B not only makes sure the Li is being charged properly but protects the 12V electrical system and alternator from the battery. Li batteries can be very hungry and will swallow a lot of power if well discharged, possibly more power than the original equipment is designed to handle. Fit it.
 
U.Toadifact said:
I would doubt that your MH has a dumb alternator. My 2017 model has a smart version.
Click to expand...
Mercedes supplied smart alternator chassis from about 2014. At the request of motorhome constructors Fiat supplied non smart alternators until September 2019. By 2020 there were still some Fiats without smart alternators in the system that had come off the production line before the cut off date. My motorhome is 2019 and does not have a smart alternator.
 
U.Toadifact said:
I would doubt that your MH has a dumb alternator. My 2017 model has a smart version.
Click to expand...
That’s what I thought too - but there is no additional fitting on the battery terminal which I am told is an indication. My local Chausson dealer Service Manager said there is a unit under the passenger seat if Smart Alternator. There is nothing, as I have everything out from there to fit my Fogstar underseat lithium battery. He suggested contact Fiat and ask.

However my question remains - does it matter if my alternator is Smart or not if fitting my Victron B2B, Victron Charger and Fogstar 230ah Lithium battery.
 
My 2019 ducatto had a non smart.

No it doesnt matter as far as you are concerned , it is actually marginally better to be none smart it will still govern the charge rate as long as you still consider my advice in post 2
 
It doesn't matter what type an alternator you should always fit a B2B with Lithium, very risky without.

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Kayak Kid said:
Hi
Thanks for that.

Had a read through - and apologies if I have missed it - but can’t see the answer to my question on whether it makes any difference if the alternator is Smart or Non Smart with my installation of Lithium battery, Victron B2B and Victron charger.

Have I missed it?

Jim
Click to expand...
No you haven’t missed it but I still think you try your existing set up before you buy. In my case it’s worked out well.
 
Tombola said:
My 2019 ducatto had a non smart.

No it doesnt matter as far as you are concerned , it is actually marginally better to be none smart it will still govern the charge rate as long as you still consider my advice in post 2
Click to expand...
Cheers for that - I presume your earlier comments relate to the original split charge relay? If so - yes I will be taking that out of the circuit.
 
Hi Folks - thank you for all of your helpful comments!

From your range of advice, it seems then that I am ok with my planned configuration of the Fogstar Lithium battery, Victron B2B Smart charger and Victron IP22 12v charger - whether or not my alternator is smart - providing I take the original split charge out of the circuit to avoid a ‘loop’ charge!

If that is it then hopefully that is me safe to proceed further!

Jim
 
ontheroadagain said:
My 2021 built (Fiat) doesn’t have one.
I put a cheap voltage reader in the 12v socket,went for a drive and the voltage remained constant.
Click to expand...
Have you checked the build date on the Fiat C of C?

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Kayak Kid said:
However my question remains - does it matter if my alternator is Smart or not if fitting my Victron B2B, Victron Charger and Fogstar 230ah Lithium battery.
Click to expand...
I completed my installation of 300a Fogstar Drift Pro with the same Victron DC-DC charger as you and don’t have smart alternator and all works fine👍😊
 
Lenny HB said:
Have you checked the build date on the Fiat C of C?
Click to expand...
I haven’t checked the C of C but when I had it in for a service recently I asked them (Fiat Professional garage) and they said April 2021.
No stop start either. (thankfully)
 
ontheroadagain said:
6D CI
Click to expand...
I thought 6d normally had a smart alternator to comply perhaps it depends on which engine and some they can without a smart alternator.
I thought all Ducato's had smart alternators from September 2019, standard panel vans had them a few years eairler.
 
I thought all Ducato Euro 6d engines needed smart alternators and start stop to achieve the d level of testing. This article suggests they should have them.
www.fleetnews.co.uk

Fiat Ducato update adds Euro 6d-Temp engines

Fiat has updated the Ducato for the 2020 model year, updating the range to include Euro 6d-Temp compliant engines.
www.fleetnews.co.uk www.fleetnews.co.uk
 
Pausim said:
I thought all Ducato Euro 6d engines needed smart alternators and start stop to achieve the d level of testing. This article suggests they should have them.
www.fleetnews.co.uk

Fiat Ducato update adds Euro 6d-Temp engines

Fiat has updated the Ducato for the 2020 model year, updating the range to include Euro 6d-Temp compliant engines.
www.fleetnews.co.uk www.fleetnews.co.uk
Click to expand...
Base models and certain variants for conversion without the eco pack can be none smart. And still meet euro 6d
 
Lenny HB said:
I was wondering if it was something like that.
Click to expand...
The higher power variants usually have smart.

Those without smart also mostly can be identified by NOT having start stop...
Or so the dealer said a couple.years ago.

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Kayak Kid said:
Mine is a 2020 Ducato Euro 6D Temp and has no stop start, apparently non smart alternator and not sure about electronically controlled fuel pump.
Click to expand...
That 6d temp got me wondering what the “temp” means. The latest Malibu Van brochure says the Fiat engines will be 6d final compliant. It would seem that the temp means that the new testing procedures introduced in September 2019 were enforced less rigidly in the early phases. The temp allows a 110% variation between the lab figures and the real road tests, whereas the final allows no more than 43% deviation.

My guess is that Fiat took advantage of the extra 67% tolerance and left out the smart alternators when asked to by some constructors i.e. pandering to motorhome constructors who like to cut corners and leave out the B2B in favour of a cheap relay. Whether this is still possible with the 6d final is another matter.
 
As others have said, it really doesn't matter whether you have a smart alternator or not - fit the B2B. The whole system will be the better for it.
 
My understanding is the same as Tombola's in reply #25, i.e. no stop-start means no smart alternator.
 

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