Site Costs

[DerryW]

I know that electricity prices are increasing but, £12.50 a day! I spend a lot less than that heating my 3bedroom house, my PVC cannot cost anywhere near that surely?

I think he needs to get his meters checked?

Take a look at the thread that’s been running this week by Steve and Denise, like me you’ll be absolutely astounded how much it cost to run Alde heating system.

 

[Len]

This is not supposed to be another moan about the cost of C&MC club site costs. But it is clear rising costs are an issue for many. So it has started me thinking about how the club / business could ( if it felt inclined ) reduce costs for pitches.

The first thing I would love to know is how the costs for running a site are distributed -- and which ones are fixed and which are variable, does anyone know,? this would tell you the scope for cost cutting ( can't do much about business rates). There must be ways to cut costs without too much detriment to the quality of the experience. Some ideas I have had:

1. Look at the whole booking in process, the need to go twice to reception seems over kill, make it once, or not at all could help reduce staffing
2. Reduce the number of times the grass is cut and hedges trimmed, its a campsite not a garden and it would reduce noise. Again might lead to staff reductions
3. On the continent most sites have 10amp electricity or less, if you are careful not to run heavy use appliances at the same time this never causes an issue -- would that cut costs
4. Could the density of the sites be increased by introducing an aire type of area on the sites for motorhomes -- or are we too wedded to the spacing rules. More vans, the greater the income etc
5. Outsource the cleaning of the toilets to a third party, could well save costs and reduce staff levels

I just wonder whether there is scope to reduce costs and if there would be a will to do it. Does anyone have thoughts on this? If enough good ideas come from this thread, could summaries them and fire them off to the club as pro-active suggestions, rather than just a whinge.

Yes, your suggestions may lead to some savings but I would suggest both clubs should engage management consultants to examine the benefits of both clubs amalgamating and the possible resultant savings from such a merger and more importantly, how would it benefit the members.

 

[L' Hobo]

Take a look at the thread that’s been running this week by Steve and Denise, like me you’ll be absolutely astounded how much it cost to run Alde heating system.

Perhaps, people with Alde systems should pay more for their pitch, why should us poor PVC owners subsidise them?

 

[pelican]

Our site which is 90% full up to and through the New Year, currently has multiple 8 foot illuminated Santas, outdoor Xmas trees, twinkling lights in abundance and heating on full blast on all pitches will be using an untold amount of electricity more than in summer. Most guests are out in the town while their Santa is beaming out at everyone else!
There are costs which could be cut here, but none without detrimental effect on the customers experience. They know it’s expensive here but they come in their droves. And return. Others who want no frills and no electric go elsewhere. There’s plenty of choice isn’t there?

There is nowt as queer as folks ,At least they are congregating. Strange goings on there, Get out while you can it could be infectious.

 

[Adrian140974]

I use regular and got sick of the two visits to reception, so this year I decided to just ask them to choose a pitch for me, all been good

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[eddie]

Why does anyone think that campsite owners wish to cut costs?

We run our business’s the way we think that they “should” be run, work out the costs, add a fair profit margin and you lot pay it.

If we get it wrong, people don’t come, luckily we are normally at a comfortable level of occupancy.

Outside cleaning contractors clean once a day, no good when dirty bastards crap over the toilet, not in it, or use so much paper the loo is blocked and needs immediate attention, which is part of the wardens job.

Two tier pricing? Great for the scumbags that pay the cheaper tariff and the use everything anyway and act all offended or bewildered when challenged

Electric, been over it time and time again, the vast majority of our customers want electric hook up. If you don’t wish to pay for electric, go to a site that offers that, not one that does and try to argue the toss.

Metered electricity, pre payment cards, coin operated all have issues and are inconvenient in some way. With us you can book on line, pay on line and the system checks your vehicle out, and if all is above board books you in.

You can arrive after hours, be granted access automatically go onto you pitch and plug in. The following morning is you need an early start you unplug and leave, simple!

Nothing to pay, no need to have a meter read, no refund due, just leave.

Grass cutting, use an outside contractor, great if everyone left at the same time everyday, but the don’t so the wardens zipp round and tidy the pitches as and when they can! Its flexible of course to on a hot balmy sunny afternoon when everyone is outside relaxing and BBQ’ing they give it a miss

I I always say to people who think that they know how to run a campsite, put your money where your mouth is and do it, open one from scratch, I did it, Jim did it and I promise you it’s a different opinion from our side of the counter!

And remember, we only have rules because of dickheads!

 

[philann]

It sees to me that they don’t need to reduce their prices, most sites we have been on have been almost full all the time!

 

[Wingingit#1]

And pitch prices will have to go up in line with everything else at the minute ....thats something else that people wont be happy with.
"Camping used to be so cheap"
They'll winge about the price of a weeks stay in peak season and times whatever theyve paid with the number of pitches theyve counted and think its easy money.

 

[berni109]

If the charges are too much dont use the sites. Simples.
They are not clubs for the benefit of members they are entities that set out to make as much as they can.
As for suggesting that both major clubs amalgamate theres as much chance of that as turkeys voting for Christmas.
The top jobs paying excessive salaries are a sinecure in the jobs for the boys network.
I expect that the management consultants have been in and administrative staff are all on bonus schemes to increase productivity. Yeh right. Overall profits increase and so do bonuses.
Whittling away at the site cost base will have little impact and will likely result in a much poorer user experience and as for outsourcing fundamental site maintenance forget it.
The site wardens do difficult and in some cases unplesent jobs and have to deal on an almost daily basis with obnoxious dickheads. I would not do their jobs for 10 times pay.

 

[Wingingit#1]

Any job where you deal with the public there will be an amount of 'those kind of people' .
Wardens and alot of site owners also get to live alongside the customers so its 24/7 .

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[peterc10]

I know that electricity prices are increasing but, £12.50 a day! I spend a lot less than that heating my 3bedroom house, my PVC cannot cost anywhere near that surely?

I think he needs to get his meters checked?

Commercial electricity rates for small businesses can be 3 times those for domestic properties. Somebody with a 2kw fan on all the time will rack that up in half a day. And double that if they decide to heat the awning.

Most houses are heated by gas, which is a third the price per Kwh of electricity.

 

[Lenny HB]

I think that is because site pay commercial price for electric and it can be 4 times the domestic rate.

Jim's is a 5 van site he pays domestic taffif he mentioned it on the other thread.

 

[Neil S]

Over the past week which of course has been exceptionally cold , using the washing machine tumblr drier and top oven , lights, tv etc it’s never got anywhere near £8.00 let alone £12.50. For electric on the smart meter. We have a detached property facing North with nothing behind us. So why don’t the sites reduce ampage to 5 or ten amps instead of 16? The gas CH also used leccy for the boiler pump and stat .

Sorry but I disagree , we need to keep EHU at 16 amps for heating in the colder months and to reduce the usage of LPG which is better for the environment .
I have ALDE heating which is very efficient and when ever possible I prefer to use electricity for heating , cooking .

 

[Simon Meadwell]

Cant drive around in a big motorhome then suggest using electric over lpg will save the planet just bonkers

 

[Billylou]

I will be paying the increased site fees but won’t be having a few pints or a meal out. If you only have a fiver you can only spend a fiver.

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[Lenny HB]

Must be me, I can never see the point of EHU, IMO a Motorhome should be self sufficient. To me the idea of Motorhoming is you can travel about enjoying life without being reliant on finding expensive services, OK nice to have a place to dump once a week but that's all.

 

[Beldea]

In my opinion, the club sites should charge extra for awnings on EHU - in summer the fans are whirring and in winter heaters are blasting out warm air

 

[eddie]

Must be me, I can never see the point of EHU, IMO a Motorhome should be self sufficient. To me the idea of Motorhoming is you can travel about enjoying life without being reliant on finding expensive services, OK nice to have a place to dump once a week but that's all.

I agree it’s you

Im pretty much self sufficient, so if a site, is convenient to where I want to explore doesn’t have hook up, I don’t have to compromise

I much prefer sites, I can leave my BBQ out, under my awning and relax whilst we go off exploring on our bikes, without the faff of putting everything away all the time. The following night it may be a pub car park for the night, but my wife will still want her hairdryer in the morning, and the next night may be a quiet CL somewhere

Self sufficiency give you the choice for many things and sites is in my mix of choices

 

[eddie]

In my opinion, the club sites should charge extra for awnings on EHU - in summer the fans are whirring and in winter heaters are blasting out warm air

Ban awnings a much better idea.

Need more space? Buy a bigger van, scared to drive a bigger van? Get some training

 

[L' Hobo]

Must be me, I can never see the point of EHU, IMO a Motorhome should be self sufficient. To me the idea of Motorhoming is you can travel about enjoying life without being reliant on finding expensive services, OK nice to have a place to dump once a week but that's all.

I really don't mean to be disrespectful but, was that also your attitude when you were tugging?

Not everyone can afford, or justify to themselves, to having a Lithium powered, self sufficient Motorhome, they have more important things to pay for, such as family etc.
(Let's face it, in some parts of this country, one can buy a house, and have change, for what your M/H cost.)

We all have to start somewhere?

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[steve69]

Why does anyone think that campsite owners wish to cut costs?

We run our business’s the way we think that they “should” be run, work out the costs, add a fair profit margin and you lot pay it.

If we get it wrong, people don’t come, luckily we are normally at a comfortable level of occupancy.

Outside cleaning contractors clean once a day, no good when dirty bastards crap over the toilet, not in it, or use so much paper the loo is blocked and needs immediate attention, which is part of the wardens job.

Two tier pricing? Great for the scumbags that pay the cheaper tariff and the use everything anyway and act all offended or bewildered when challenged

Electric, been over it time and time again, the vast majority of our customers want electric hook up. If you don’t wish to pay for electric, go to a site that offers that, not one that does and try to argue the toss.

Metered electricity, pre payment cards, coin operated all have issues and are inconvenient in some way. With us you can book on line, pay on line and the system checks your vehicle out, and if all is above board books you in.

You can arrive after hours, be granted access automatically go onto you pitch and plug in. The following morning is you need an early start you unplug and leave, simple!

Nothing to pay, no need to have a meter read, no refund due, just leave.

Grass cutting, use an outside contractor, great if everyone left at the same time everyday, but the don’t so the wardens zipp round and tidy the pitches as and when they can! Its flexible of course to on a hot balmy sunny afternoon when everyone is outside relaxing and BBQ’ing they give it a miss

I I always say to people who think that they know how to run a campsite, put your money where your mouth is and do it, open one from scratch, I did it, Jim did it and I promise you it’s a different opinion from our side of the counter!

And remember, we only have rules because of dickheads!

Brilliantly put! ....All you need to know in a nutshell.

 

[Neil S]

Cant drive around in a big motorhome then suggest using electric over lpg will save the planet just bonkers

Aye best look at my profile signature
Motorhome is history got rid
Doubtful if I’ll ever buy one again
Don’t own any diesel vehicles either the last went a while back
Caravan is seasonal based from next year
Tow car is a Audi Q5 Tfsi E PHEV Hybrid .
Don’t tow any huge distances now and when we do I try to use public transport once we are at our destination
Or travel shorter distance on electric up to 30-35 miles

 

[Lenny HB]

I really don't mean to be disrespectful but, was that also your attitude when you were tugging?

Yes it was, in those days we had two cheap batteries one for the electrics & one for the motor mover, with a family of 4 we could survive for seven days and if needed longer in those days a lot of sites offered battery charging.

Not everyone can afford, or justify to themselves, to having a Lithium powered, self sufficient Motorhome, they have more important things to pay for, such as family etc.

Don't have Lithium in this van and we can survive virtually indefinitely being self sufficient.
The cost to kit out your van to be self sufficient is far cheaper than using sites with EHU.

It's a joke these days with tuggers running fan heaters all day & evening in the awning, if it's cold we go inside.
If you want EHU 5 amp max with a meter is the way to go, enough to run the fridge & charge the battery.

We have only ever had vans with gas only heating and the new one on order will only have gas only heating, I don't waste money & certainly not paying £550 for the electric option, far cheaper to use gas.

 

[L' Hobo]

Yes it was, in those days we had two cheap batteries one for the electrics & one for the motor mover, with a family of 4 we could survive for seven days and if needed longer in those days a lot of sites offered battery charging.

I take it you are talking of the warmer months, otherwise its hard to believe that you could, safely, survive in the present weather conditions for 7 days when your battery efficiency would have been lower because of the cold and I also note that, in those days, you did use sites. So your attitude has changed somewhat?

 

[EuroTrotters]

First ones I can think of for now, off the top so to speak.
1. Offer Non EHU Pitches, on ALL sites, for self sufficient campers.
2. Put a metered supply on every pitch that wants an EHU, so you pay for what you use, rather than make sure you get your monies worth.
3. Offer 2 levels of stay, one with full facilities like shower Block,WC,& Wash Up facilities, one without.
4. Maybe extend any existing off peak offers, like 4 nights for 3 in low season, or mid week.
5. Given sufficient room, then yes offer an Aire type facility, maybe limited to one or two nights max with limited facilities like water & dump only.

That will do for now, I will keep thinking, but cant see The CMC adopting change as they don't seem to like doing that.
LES

Metered electricity would be number one for me.

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[Lenny HB]

I take it you are talking of the warmer months, otherwise its hard to believe that you could, safely, survive in the present weather conditions for 7 days when your battery efficiency would have been lower because of the cold and I also note that, in those days, you did use sites. So your attitude has changed somewhat?

A bit of a silly response only Pi-kys don't use sites with a caravan, we used to have a regular break of a few days in the New Forest in November or December.
The whole reason for getting a Motorhome was to have more freedom, attitude hasn't changed never liked sites when tugging but a case of needs must. Correction, never liked UK sites, even now we occasionally stay on Spanish sites when necessary for a few days but would prefer Aires.

 

[DerryW]

It’s not that long ago that we can all remember paying c£10 for most CL’s and c£25 for a site with all the bells and whistles, and a tin of Hienz baked beans was £0.80. We’re only talking 4-5 years ago.
Fast forward post pandemic, mad man Putin, sky high fuel cost, and increased inflation. A tin of Hienz baked beans is now £1.25. Majority of CL’s now £20+ and sites with all facilities £30+.
When the war in Ukraine is over (and it will be) and inflation reduces to a manageable level, do you think prices will return to where they were even 3 years ago, dream on.
As much as we the punters don’t like it, £30+ per night is the new normal.
Now getting back to the question posed by the OP. To be honest I don’t see many opportunities for significant cost savings by tinkering at the edges i.e introducing price options for EHU, outsourcing cleaning and grounds maintenance etc. However if the CMHC chose to reduced their self imposed 6mtr rule by say 1mtr this would provide space for a significant increase in the number of pitches, which in turn they could either reduce the pitch fees for all, or, increase the salary and pension pots of the senior management team.

So in summary, unless the punters vote with the feet and stop using CMHC & CCC I’m afraid we’ll just have to accept, Touring in the UK, be it using the two main club sites or private commercial sites is no longer inexpensive, but then, budget hotels are no longer inexpensive.

What might help is if the 5 van rule (not sure who first introduced the rule) for CL’s was increased to say 10-15, subject to basic services being provided; 1or 2 toilets, fresh water and Elsan point, doesn’t have to be flash, just basic and clean.

A lot, me included, will say why put up with rip of Britain, just jump on a ferry or through the pipe and enjoy all the continent has to offer at a fraction of the cost. Not strictly true when you bake in the cost of crossing the channel. You pays ya money ya takes your choice.

 

[Langtoftlad]

However if the CMHC chose to reduced their self imposed 6mtr rule by say 1mtr this would provide space for a significant increase in the number of pitches

I doubt they'd do that, because of the liability with regards safety and because it would cost a fortune to dig up and relay all the hardstanding pitches.
To maintain margins & keep pitch fees reasonable, in the light of ever increasing commercial utility prices, sites must come up with a way of restricting electricity usage.

 

[Conal]

I think that next summer we will be paying £20+ for some CLs/CSs and £40+, even £50, for sites in the right locations, and I will be happy to do so knowing that sites owners will only survive if they keep up with real costs.

 

[Lenny HB]

I think that next summer we will be paying £20+ for some CLs/CSs and £40+, even £50, for sites in the right locations, and I will be happy to do so knowing that sites owners will only survive if they keep up with real costs.

No way would I pay those prices.

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