Should I replace my house gas boiler……

[GAVLAD]

…..with a more efficient model? At present we have a Vaillant ecoTEC plus 831 combi boiler that was installed in July 2011, and seems to be working ok (kiss of death!! ), but, with the proposed phasing-out of new gas boilers from 2025, is it worth replacing ours now before:-
1. we can only replace it with an electric boiler or heat-pump
2. the price of gas boilers starts to increase as they become more scarce
3. parts for our current boiler are no longer available
4. another reason I haven’t thought of yet!

I know there are several knowledgeable boiler engineers on Fun, so I would be grateful for any comments/advice!
Thanks in advance,
Andy.

I'd replace it with another gas boiler.
Go for a slightly more capacity but the best efficient version you can afford.
Unless you are going to live in your house for another 30 years, I personally don't see the benefit of replacing with heat pumps or anything else at the moment. The cost is currently too high.
Like all technology, it will start to come down in price with time.
I don't normally tune into Jeremy Vine Radio2, but I did not so long ago and they had some guy who fits heat pumps on his show as a guest.
A plumber called in and ran rings around what he was saying.
Basically, for a new build, yes, I agree, it makes sense because everything else about that build is based on modern methods.(insulation etc)
For old / existing properties for a retro fit, there's all sorts to replace. Radiators, valves, some pipe work etc. and the cost was about £10k compared to a new gas boiler fitted for around £2k.
He even hammered him when the guest mentioned the government grant. Apparently, they have halved the grant to what it originally was.
Wouldn't you think that they would be increasing it at this early stage rather than reducing it?

Take a look at www.boxt.co.uk to give you an idea of what's available for what cost and then you can compare with whatever quote your regular plumber/supplier offers.

 

[AnnieB]

We have a Baxi. It is the original one from when I moved in to my new home 40 years ago.
The water thermostat on it is broken but the gas fitter who has serviced it every year set it mid-range with his pliers a few years ago. I asked him if I should replace it and he said not to bother.

 

[Odd-no-more]

I did think hard before I replaced my own boiler, the existing boiler was not a condensing boiler but the efficiency was not too bad, I had a spare boiler, for parts, in the shed. But there were other factors at work, I was intending to retire and needed to be registered with Gas Safe in order to commission it, I had a bonus due from my firm, and Worcester boilers had a promotion offering £250 to any Worcester registered installer who installed a Worcester in their own home, and of course I installed it myself so no installation labour to pay. I even manages to blag a flue from a college saving another £90, claiming the cash from Worcester was not easy, but they did pay up in the end, and didn't even inspect as they are supposed to, a bit annoying because I would not have fitted a flue guard if I new they would not check. Also we are intending to move and a new boiler will help the sale, although due to family commitments we are not able to move at this time and the "new" boiler is now almost 5 years old, I got a 7 year guarantee through my firm but it may have run out by the time we move The Worcester boiler has not missed a beat since I put it in and I have serviced it every year so far, but next year will be the last, as my qualifications expire next May, after that I will have to pay someone to do it

 

[Sandancers]

I did think hard before I replaced my own boiler, the existing boiler was not a condensing boiler but the efficiency was not too bad, I had a spare boiler, for parts, in the shed. But there were other factors at work, I was intending to retire and needed to be registered with Gas Safe in order to commission it, I had a bonus due from my firm, and Worcester boilers had a promotion offering £250 to any Worcester registered installer who installed a Worcester in their own home, and of course I installed it myself so no installation labour to pay. I even manages to blag a flue from a college saving another £90, claiming the cash from Worcester was not easy, but they did pay up in the end, and didn't even inspect as they are supposed to, a bit annoying because I would not have fitted a flue guard if I new they would not check. Also we are intending to move and a new boiler will help the sale, although due to family commitments we are not able to move at this time and the "new" boiler is now almost 5 years old, I got a 7 year guarantee through my firm but it may have run out by the time we move The Worcester boiler has not missed a beat since I put it in and I have serviced it every year so far, but next year will be the last, as my qualifications expire next May, after that I will have to pay someone to do it

Not that it applies to me, but I thought you could continue to work on the gas side of your own appliances after gas-safe runs out as you can argue that your years of experience in the gas field prove you have the knowledge to do it safely. But you are not allowed to do paid work for other people after gas safe runs out.

 

[mitzimad]

Not that it applies to me, but I thought you could continue to work on the gas side of your own appliances after gas-safe runs out as you can argue that your years of experience in the gas field prove you have the knowledge to do it safely. But you are not allowed to do paid work for other people after gas safe runs out.

its getting the warranty and certificate that you need to do via gas safe ive never serviced my boiler at home last one was 24 years old when i took it out vailant

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[Odd-no-more]

Not that it applies to me, but I thought you could continue to work on the gas side of your own appliances after gas-safe runs out as you can argue that your years of experience in the gas field prove you have the knowledge to do it safely. But you are not allowed to do paid work for other people after gas safe runs out.

It is a grey area, in order to be registered with Gas Safe we need to hold ACS qualifications, these have to be renewed at 5 year intervals. I am no longer Gas Safe registered but have my ACS until next May. I can service my boiler which is required for the guarantee, but once my qualifications expire it may be problematic. I will no longer be able to demonstrate that I am up to date with the regulations etc.

 

[the1andonly]

My potterton is from the 70s and has cost me £40 for a new starter a few years back. Any life left in the old lump of iron or should i concider replacement? Gas prices versus efficiency equation has changed.

 

[Coolcats]

…..with a more efficient model? At present we have a Vaillant ecoTEC plus 831 combi boiler that was installed in July 2011, and seems to be working ok (kiss of death!! ), but, with the proposed phasing-out of new gas boilers from 2025, is it worth replacing ours now before:-
1. we can only replace it with an electric boiler or heat-pump
2. the price of gas boilers starts to increase as they become more scarce
3. parts for our current boiler are no longer available
4. another reason I haven’t thought of yet!

I know there are several knowledgeable boiler engineers on Fun, so I would be grateful for any comments/advice!
Thanks in advance,
Andy.

Keep it as long as you can, you can get hybrid boilers that can run in Gas and Hydrigen, whilst there are naysayers on the forum if you look at the likes of shell and other companies they talk about the possibility of Hydrogen as an alternative source of energy and I think the latest storms that brought down power lines there will be alternative Gas boilers for some time to come.

Imagine having an EV and no power for 10 days to charge it !

 

[Ivory55]

Keep it as long as you can, you can get hybrid boilers that can run in Gas and Hydrigen, whilst there are naysayers on the forum if you look at the likes of shell and other companies they talk about the possibility of Hydrogen as an alternative source of energy and I think the latest storms that brought down power lines there will be alternative Gas boilers for some time to come.

Imagine having an EV and no power for 10 days to charge it !

I think some old sayings are very true, don’t put all your eggs in one basket

 

[L' Hobo]

Why would you want to that model is considered to be one of the best boilers on the market, set the heating, open a bottle of vino, sit back and enjoy.

I wish you hadn't said that, I was going to offer him 20 quid to take it away for him!

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[MisterB]

I will no longer be able to demonstrate that I am up to date with the regulations etc.

Interesting, and why would you not be able to demonstrate competence to service your boiler? So long as you have the technology (flue anilyser etc that has been calibrated) I can't see how you wouldn't be able to demonstrate competence? Working on someone else's boiler of course is a different matter.

 

[JockandRita]

We were looking at having our old Myson Economist replaced, (pre 1994), which has been kept going with the help of a heating engineer and parts supplier, but sadly, parts are now obsolete. The plumber for the new install advised that we delay until the Spring, as he will need 3-4 days due to relocation of the boiler (latest regs apparently), during which time we won't have any hot water or heating.................so hoping our old Myson keeps going for now.

BTW, he has recommended a Baxi Combi 800 Series, which means we lose our large hot water storage tank. Is there a better boiler on the market? To keep a degree of hot water storage, we think a Service Boiler would be better, but again, which brand for good service and longevity?

AndyPK. Sorry Andy, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Ivory55]

I think I am with you on keeping a hot water tank, at least you could use an immersion heater if the boiler fails giving you some hot water.

 

[AndyPK]

I think I am with you on keeping a hot water tank, at least you could use an immersion heater if the boiler fails giving you some hot water.

…and also useful if you have solar panels on the house - use what they produce (on a sunny day) to heat the water!

 

[Odd-no-more]

Interesting, and why would you not be able to demonstrate competence to service your boiler? So long as you have the technology (flue anilyser etc that has been calibrated) I can't see how you wouldn't be able to demonstrate competence? Working on someone else's boiler of course is a different matter.

We have to re-take our examination every 5 years, we have to demonstrate that we are up to date with changes in regulations. I have always kept up by reading technical bulletins on the Gas Safe web site, these are only available to registered engineers. The last time I went back to work I spent some time checking the site before I went back. Sometimes manufacturers have a recall which would be notified through Gas Safe, this could be because a component has been found to fail over time and should be replaced on the next service etc. Once my qualifications expire I would not be able to demonstrate I have the knowledge to be safe.

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[Wendo55]

Thanks for this thread Andy. It's really helpful for me as I've just had a repair done. British Gas say I should think about a new one as it's on the "red list" for parts becoming unavailable. They've quoted me £3.5k.
Just checked that boxt link and I can knock 1k off that price!

 

[scotzsue]

Buy a spare one now & store it ready for when needed.

We did that before they went over to condenser boilers, by the time we needed to have it fitted there was along rigmarole to allow it as it had been bought when it was to standard but was being fitted when it was not. We’re without heating for a bit till it got sorted.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I replaced our 10 year old valiant in our villa with a Daikin condenser, gas consumption has dropped dramatically.

In the UK, we have an old glow worm. It’s 30 years old, been in use for 27. I’m thinking of replacing that with the same.

Any grants available?

 

[Ivory55]

I replaced our 10 year old valiant in our villa with a Daikin condenser, gas consumption has dropped dramatically.

In the UK, we have an old glow worm. It’s 30 years old, been in use for 27. I’m thinking of replacing that with the same.

Any grants available?

Never grants available when I have looked

 

[busby]

Prophecy ,,,Gas boilers will be the modern way to go by 2035..Remember back in the 50s,60s when the clever buggers told us oil was the future,,,scrapped trolly buses and trams,,Back in the 90s Diesel cars were the future,,,won't be available by 2030,,,Trams came back,,bet gas,and diesel do the same,,BUSBY.

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[MisterB]

We were looking at having our old Myson Economist replaced, (pre 1994), which has been kept going with the help of a heating engineer and parts supplier, but sadly, parts are now obsolete. The plumber for the new install advised that we delay until the Spring, as he will need 3-4 days due to relocation of the boiler (latest regs apparently), during which time we won't have any hot water or heating.................so hoping our old Myson keeps going for now.

BTW, he has recommended a Baxi Combi 800 Series, which means we lose our large hot water storage tank. Is there a better boiler on the market? To keep a degree of hot water storage, we think a Service Boiler would be better, but again, which brand for good service and longevity?

AndyPK. Sorry Andy, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Cheers,

Jock.

No doubt it will be more economical with a combi, but it might be worth considering keeping your cylinder and use solar to heat the hot water, boosted by the boiler whenever necessary, If you do go for a combi, you need decent incoming mains pressure. Lots of boilers have fanned flues which may help when siting the new boiler close to your current one.

 

[two]

I replaced a standard boiler for an efficient condensing one but did not notice any difference in gas consumption.
Don't think the house is significantly warmer, either. How should you measure efficiency?

I think efficiency factors are marketing myths. You can say anything with statistics, especially if preceded with "up to".
I'd hope that the newer models are better, but they only need to be by the slimmest of margins to be able to say that.
Wait until your old boiler is dead, then a new one will be 100% more efficient...

 

[Lenny HB]

10 years since I replaced my boiler, the old one was a 9 year old Potterton system boiler 78% efficient. The current one is an Alpha condenser 92% efficent. The Potterton was 80,000 BTU the Alpha is 102,000 BTU, ended up with a warmer house, and saved £200 a year in gas bills.

Always replace the boiler myself, I've seen some of the bodges the so called professionals do so they ain't coming anywhere near my house.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Keep it as long as you can, you can get hybrid boilers that can run in Gas and Hydrigen, whilst there are naysayers on the forum if you look at the likes of shell and other companies they talk about the possibility of Hydrogen as an alternative source of energy and I think the latest storms that brought down power lines there will be alternative Gas boilers for some time to come.

Imagine having an EV and no power for 10 days to charge it !

That's the Achilles Heel of EVs.

I was intrigued about the possibility of hydrogen CH boilers as a replacement for gas boilers. The basic problems are: how do you manufacture hydrogen at low cost without using fossil fuel, and how do you transport hydrogen safely via a gas distribution network that was never designed for hydrogen. With current technology this looks like a non-starter for a combination of engineering and economic reasons. Likewise ASHP for domestic heating only works for a small percentage of the UK's housing stock and would be too dependent on increasingly expensive and intermittent renewable electric energy.

Fingers crossed, my next boiler will be another gas one. I have a Vaillant that the previous owner had installed by British Gas in about 2000. It has been much more reliable than my last one which was a GloWorm pile of poo. I am not sure how much life is left in the Vaillant and how much longer spare parts will be available. I must remember to ask the bloke who services it next time.

 

[busby]

10 years since I replaced my boiler, the old one was a 9 year old Potterton system boiler 78% efficient. The current one is an Alpha condenser 92% efficent. The Potterton was 80,000 BTU the Alpha is 102,000 BTU, ended up with a warmer house, and saved £200 a year in gas bills.

Always replace the boiler myself, I've seen some of the bodges the so called professionals do so they ain't coming anywhere near my house.

Doesn't get cold down there in the South though does it Lenny,, BUSBY.

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[63720]

That's the Achilles Heel of EVs.

I was intrigued about the possibility of hydrogen CH boilers as a replacement for gas boilers. The basic problems are: how do you manufacture hydrogen at low cost without using fossil fuel, and how do you transport hydrogen safely via a gas distribution network that was never designed for hydrogen. With current technology this looks like a non-starter for a combination of engineering and economic reasons. Likewise ASHP for domestic heating only works for a small percentage of the UK's housing stock and would be too dependent on increasingly expensive and intermittent renewable electric energy.

Fingers crossed, my next boiler will be another gas one. I have a Vaillant that the previous owner had installed by British Gas in about 2000. It has been much more reliable than my last one which was a GloWorm pile of poo. I am not sure how much life is left in the Vaillant and how much longer spare parts will be available. I must remember to ask the bloke who services it next time.

Thought hydrogen was energy intensive to produce anyway..
Thanks to all for some great information here. Our boiler is a Vaillant turbomax 242(?) from the 90s and apart from a leaking casting and regular servicing is going well but I'm aware of its age and always ready to replace it but I won't have a GSHP.

 

[Ivory55]

One thing with a tank in the loft running something like a 32 mm pipe to the h/w tank does give a consistent flow. Where they can turn the main pressure down when they want to save water.

 

[Lenny HB]

Doesn't get cold down there in the South though does it Lenny,, BUSBY.

I'll have you know it got down below zero one night last week.
Wind (not mine for once) is more of a problem being only a couple of hundred yards from the coast & the house exposed on all four sides, can hardly stand up outside today blowing a hooly.

 

[Figaro]

BTW, he has recommended a Baxi Combi 800 Series, which means we lose our large hot water storage tank. Is there a better boiler on the market? To keep a degree of hot water storage, we think a Service Boiler would be better, but again, which brand for good service and longevity?

We have fairly lengthy runs from boiler to taps so plumber recommend a Worcester Bosch condensing boiler / invented hot water tank and secondary circulating pump for domestic hot water.
Seems to work well for past 10 years (only seems like last year it was replaced, we still call it the new boiler )

 

[wasp]

I’m 72 and recently re did my acs so I could retain my Gas Safe registration all my family and friends have gas boilers so I service them. I also do a few gas fire and back boilers for some of my older customers, generally they are about 65 % efficient but they don’t break down.

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