Should I pay this charge?

[Nanniemate]

I think it depends on the stage the apprentice is at in their training. But if they're leaving stuff like that there's plainly something wrong.

this was also my thought, an apprentice is a trainee and should be trained mentored and supervised and all work checked before approved , I would have thought that it was part of the 'chief Technician's' job role to do this , perhaps it was his day off

 

[Skyway]

It simple no one and I say no one should work on gas not trained to the level of passing a certificate unless very closely watched and then retested by the approved technician gas kills can’t get any more serious then that
And the fact that after the test there was gas leak well ?

 

[The Wino]

No. Don't agree.
Our motorhomes are huge parts of our lives. For many of us, our second biggest investment. And they are extremely complex bits of kit.

If that apprentice isn't being watched like a hawk by someone who knows exactly what they are doing, then I don't want him in the same parish as my bus.

I would have thought that through an apprenticeship things would gradually change. First they would watch someone do the job and learn the theoretical knowledge. Then do it under supervision. Then do it and have it checked at different stages. Then do it and only ask if they were unsure. Then do it alone but with a random check on the work completed. I think it would be very strange for an apprentice to only work under very close supervision then the day they qualify suddenly work alone. Throughout their apprenticeship their supervisor would of course be liable for any mistakes the apprentice makes and so would have a vested interest in their work being up to scratch. The same takes place in many industries and professions. In optometry we did a degree then worked under supervision for a year before taking professional exams and qualifying. Towards the end of the year most supervisors only check occasionally or if requested. In my work in the hospital clinics it was a similar process and seemed to be for most of the medics.

 

[pappajohn]

Never had a hab service.
I won't pay the price they want to tick boxes which half the time is all they do.

 

[Rapido925M]

This is only the second one I have had in 16y of owning the van: it may be the last!
As I said to the owner, I'm capable of pressing a switch and deciding whether a lamp lights or not, opening a tap and wondering why water isn't coming out, switching on the hob and thinking OK: the gas is alight. I think hab checks are highly over-rated.

Gordon

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[Conal]

I have always had Hab Tests to keep the 7 year warranty. In previous years I went John’s Cross. Two round trips totalling 400 miles but only £50 in train fares. Now that they are closed I contacted Autotrail and they gave me a list of authorised technicians. There is a local mobile technician near me so they carried out the check last week. It took two hours and cost £195. They were very thorough and gave me two tips. Firstly to get another fire extinguisher to put in the bedroom. The one I have is by the passenger seat, which wouldn’t be much good if the fridge went up whilst we were in the bedroom. Secondly, like other Autotrails, our’s has a fan in the skylight above the kitchen area and it has always been difficult to open. He explained that, because the hinge is in a corner, the opposite corner jams. All I have to do is slam my palm on the ceiling next to this corner and the stuck corner frees.
I will probably pay for annual services after the warranty runs out, just for piece of mind.

 

[DDJC]

I would have thought that through an apprenticeship things would gradually change. First they would watch someone do the job and learn the theoretical knowledge. Then do it under supervision. Then do it and have it checked at different stages. Then do it and only ask if they were unsure. Then do it alone but with a random check on the work completed. I think it would be very strange for an apprentice to only work under very close supervision then the day they qualify suddenly work alone. Throughout their apprenticeship their supervisor would of course be liable for any mistakes the apprentice makes and so would have a vested interest in their work being up to scratch. The same takes place in many industries and professions. In optometry we did a degree then worked under supervision for a year before taking professional exams and qualifying. Towards the end of the year most supervisors only check occasionally or if requested. In my work in the hospital clinics it was a similar process and seemed to be for most of the medics.

I'm not knocking the idea of apprentices, per se. Far from it.

What I would be pi$$ed about is that an appliance with gas and electric connections was worked on by an apprentice. The thing is, if a qualified tech had been watching then they surely would have seen that the apprentice had codsed things up. Therefore the likelihood was that the apprentice was unsupervised. THAT is what would pi$$ me off.

And wasn't it tested afterwards? Poor service. I'd never go back.

 

[Reallyretired]

I have only once in 40 odd years of motorhoming ever had a habitation check. They are nearly all items you can easily check yourself. To call it a habitation service is misleading as little actual servicing takes place.

 

[Dorset Diver]

After some “discussion” it was agreed that I didn’t need to pay £37 for the investigative work, which appeared on the invoice. Today I’ve been quoted £150 for labour to fit a new valve (cost £260). I think that the fridge should not have been reconnected to the gas supply if it was faulty and also that the paperwork should have reflected the problem. Alternatively the fridge valve was OK until the technician refitted it and damaged it in the process. I’m about to argue that taking the fridge out should be deducted from the labour charge: what do you think?

Obviously I can’t prove that the technician was responsible for the problem. However, he failed to notice that one of the locker doors couldn’t be opened, that one locker door wasn’t supported by its strut (not a problem when I took it in: “sh!t happens”?). He also failed to replace the black plastic dust cap on the gas test point, marked the water supply to the toilet as “fail” because he assumed it wasn’t fed from the main tank and told me (incorrectly) that the Truma heater needed to have water in it for the space heating to work. When I collected the van this time I smelled gas in the gas locker: he told me that was to be expected (I don’t think so!). It transpired that the fridge knob was stuck in and gas was coming from the pilot jet in sufficient quantity to swamp the van and be picked up outside at the gas locker.

How strongly should I contest the £150 labour charge?

Gordon

I've only scanned the thread but I sense that the problem has arisen from the incompetence and errors of the people who worked on the van and they are now expecting you to pay them to correct their mistakes. Hopefully you paid with a credit card. If you did I would take it up with your credit card company under section 75.

 

[The Wino]

I'm not knocking the idea of apprentices, per se. Far from it.

What I would be pi$$ed about is that an appliance with gas and electric connections was worked on by an apprentice. The thing is, if a qualified tech had been watching then they surely would have seen that the apprentice had codsed things up. Therefore the likelihood was that the apprentice was unsupervised. THAT is what would pi$$ me off.

And wasn't it tested afterwards? Poor service. I'd never go back.

I think that it's a bit of a presumption that all qualified technicians make a good job!. I agree that the work hasn't been carried out properly. Either the apprentice is being poorly trained and being given jobs before being properly insructed or they are just being used as cheap labour to get around the minimum wage. But I wouldn't expect an apprentice to be always constantly watched and supervised no one would ever take one on.

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[gwyntaxi]

eddievanbitz has said that “sh!t happens” when folk work on your MH and you just need to suck it up. Three weeks ago I put my20y old van in for a hab service but I’m not impressed with the outcome. My fridge worked OK but I asked for it to be removed and totally overhauled. When I got it back the paperwork said everything was fine, but when I tried to light the gas nothing happened. I couldn’t push the pilot lighting knob in and it was actually off-centre in its housing. I took it back to be rectified and, after “investigation”, I was told that the technician thought it was faulty when he worked on it previously. A new valve is needed.

After some “discussion” it was agreed that I didn’t need to pay £37 for the investigative work, which appeared on the invoice. Today I’ve been quoted £150 for labour to fit a new valve (cost £260). I think that the fridge should not have been reconnected to the gas supply if it was faulty and also that the paperwork should have reflected the problem. Alternatively the fridge valve was OK until the technician refitted it and damaged it in the process. I’m about to argue that taking the fridge out should be deducted from the labour charge: what do you think?

Obviously I can’t prove that the technician was responsible for the problem. However, he failed to notice that one of the locker doors couldn’t be opened, that one locker door wasn’t supported by its strut (not a problem when I took it in: “sh!t happens”?). He also failed to replace the black plastic dust cap on the gas test point, marked the water supply to the toilet as “fail” because he assumed it wasn’t fed from the main tank and told me (incorrectly) that the Truma heater needed to have water in it for the space heating to work. When I collected the van this time I smelled gas in the gas locker: he told me that was to be expected (I don’t think so!). It transpired that the fridge knob was stuck in and gas was coming from the pilot jet in sufficient quantity to swamp the van and be picked up outside at the gas locker.

How strongly should I contest the £150 labour charge?

Gordon

I wouldn't pay them a penny for such poor workmanship, sounds like Eddie vanbitz expects people to accept shoddy workmanship as part and parcel, definitely not on.

 

[Rapido925M]

I've only scanned the thread but I sense that the problem has arisen from the incompetence and errors of the people who worked on the van and they are now expecting you to pay them to correct their mistakes. Hopefully you paid with a credit card. If you did I would take it up with your credit card company under section 75.

All paid by CC BUT I'm not going down that route, thanks.

Understandably, the owner (a friend) was not prepared to throw his staff under the bus in our exchange of emails: hence my decision to have a face to face chat on Friday. I presented him with photos of the obvious errors and he was somewhat embarrassed; he was prepared to have the valve checked again to prove to me that it really was faulty. I have been a customer for over 30y and always had good service in the past with a variety of situations. He offered and I accepted a full re-service: I am aware of two little problems and I shall be interested if they get picked up. They will be checked by me BEFORE I leave the premises!

Gordon

 

[Rapido925M]

I wouldn't pay them a penny for such poor workmanship, sounds like Eddie vanbitz expects people to accept shoddy workmanship as part and parcel, definitely not on.

NO!!!!

This has nothing to do with eddievanbitz . I was quoting, possibly incorrectly, some advice which he has offered in the past: you take your van in for some work and an unexpected problem crops up - don't blame the workman. I CAN accept that "sh!t happens" and when your MH is 20y old, it is not unreasonable for things to break: it is just hard to accept the coincidence of them happening at the exact time that the vehicle passes their tests but fails as soon as it is in my possession.

Gordon

 

[Gaza1515]

eddievanbitz has said that “sh!t happens” when folk work on your MH and you just need to suck it up. Three weeks ago I put my20y old van in for a hab service but I’m not impressed with the outcome. My fridge worked OK but I asked for it to be removed and totally overhauled. When I got it back the paperwork said everything was fine, but when I tried to light the gas nothing happened. I couldn’t push the pilot lighting knob in and it was actually off-centre in its housing. I took it back to be rectified and, after “investigation”, I was told that the technician thought it was faulty when he worked on it previously. A new valve is needed.

After some “discussion” it was agreed that I didn’t need to pay £37 for the investigative work, which appeared on the invoice. Today I’ve been quoted £150 for labour to fit a new valve (cost £260). I think that the fridge should not have been reconnected to the gas supply if it was faulty and also that the paperwork should have reflected the problem. Alternatively the fridge valve was OK until the technician refitted it and damaged it in the process. I’m about to argue that taking the fridge out should be deducted from the labour charge: what do you think?

Obviously I can’t prove that the technician was responsible for the problem. However, he failed to notice that one of the locker doors couldn’t be opened, that one locker door wasn’t supported by its strut (not a problem when I took it in: “sh!t happens”?). He also failed to replace the black plastic dust cap on the gas test point, marked the water supply to the toilet as “fail” because he assumed it wasn’t fed from the main tank and told me (incorrectly) that the Truma heater needed to have water in it for the space heating to work. When I collected the van this time I smelled gas in the gas locker: he told me that was to be expected (I don’t think so!). It transpired that the fridge knob was stuck in and gas was coming from the pilot jet in sufficient quantity to swamp the van and be picked up outside at the gas locker.

How strongly should I contest the £150 labour charge?

Gordon

Ask how much the wholesale price of the valve was and pay that only. Threaten to get local newspapers involved. Bad publicity I have found always gets a discount.

 

[eddie]

I wouldn't pay them a penny for such poor workmanship, sounds like Eddie vanbitz expects people to accept shoddy workmanship as part and parcel, definitely not on.

Now what has been posted that could make you write a statement like that?

Or, did your fingers start writing before your head was in the room?

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[Chaos]

Just remember there is always two sides to a story, not saying the OP is lying, but you can't just go naming names without the right to reply.

Totally agree, don't name bad ones without proof, but no reason why you couldn't name the good ones. That would be helpful!

 

[Rapido925M]

I mentioned to the owner that I had raised this thread but had not mentioned any names. He said that he was happy for me to give that information once everything was sorted to my satisfaction as evidence of the right way to treat problems.

He also said that he would value a posting on his website because people would see it as a genuine account, even if I only gave it 3 stars.

We will wait and see.

Gordon

 

[Mikey53]

I mentioned to the owner that I had raised this thread but had not mentioned any names. He said that he was happy for me to give that information once everything was sorted to my satisfaction as evidence of the right way to treat problems.

He also said that he would value a posting on his website because people would see it as a genuine account, even if I only gave it 3 stars.

We will wait and see.

Gordon

Sorry to read of your problems with the Hab check. Problems can often arise when the technician is not as good as he thinks he is. It is also a chance for a business owner to shine when his regular customer is experiencing problems and it’s possible he already has an idea about his technicians capabilities, with your description I cannot see how he wouldn’t. I hope all goes well from here on with this.

 

[normski]

eddievanbitz has said that “sh!t happens” when folk work on your MH and you just need to suck it up. Three weeks ago I put my20y old van in for a hab service but I’m not impressed with the outcome. My fridge worked OK but I asked for it to be removed and totally overhauled. When I got it back the paperwork said everything was fine, but when I tried to light the gas nothing happened. I couldn’t push the pilot lighting knob in and it was actually off-centre in its housing. I took it back to be rectified and, after “investigation”, I was told that the technician thought it was faulty when he worked on it previously. A new valve is needed.

After some “discussion” it was agreed that I didn’t need to pay £37 for the investigative work, which appeared on the invoice. Today I’ve been quoted £150 for labour to fit a new valve (cost £260). I think that the fridge should not have been reconnected to the gas supply if it was faulty and also that the paperwork should have reflected the problem. Alternatively the fridge valve was OK until the technician refitted it and damaged it in the process. I’m about to argue that taking the fridge out should be deducted from the labour charge: what do you think?

Obviously I can’t prove that the technician was responsible for the problem. However, he failed to notice that one of the locker doors couldn’t be opened, that one locker door wasn’t supported by its strut (not a problem when I took it in: “sh!t happens”?). He also failed to replace the black plastic dust cap on the gas test point, marked the water supply to the toilet as “fail” because he assumed it wasn’t fed from the main tank and told me (incorrectly) that the Truma heater needed to have water in it for the space heating to work. When I collected the van this time I smelled gas in the gas locker: he told me that was to be expected (I don’t think so!). It transpired that the fridge knob was stuck in and gas was coming from the pilot jet in sufficient quantity to swamp the van and be picked up outside at the gas locker.

How strongly should I contest the £150 labour charge?

Gordon

They know anybody who goes for a hab check is a sucker,you can buy damp testers any where cheap,so what else do they do? You know if the fridge,cooker,water works.
If an applience dosnt work you mend it or take it for that repair.
Another big scam

 

[Beast]

eddievanbitz has said that “sh!t happens” when folk work on your MH and you just need to suck it up. Three weeks ago I put my20y old van in for a hab service but I’m not impressed with the outcome. My fridge worked OK but I asked for it to be removed and totally overhauled. When I got it back the paperwork said everything was fine, but when I tried to light the gas nothing happened. I couldn’t push the pilot lighting knob in and it was actually off-centre in its housing. I took it back to be rectified and, after “investigation”, I was told that the technician thought it was faulty when he worked on it previously. A new valve is needed.

After some “discussion” it was agreed that I didn’t need to pay £37 for the investigative work, which appeared on the invoice. Today I’ve been quoted £150 for labour to fit a new valve (cost £260). I think that the fridge should not have been reconnected to the gas supply if it was faulty and also that the paperwork should have reflected the problem. Alternatively the fridge valve was OK until the technician refitted it and damaged it in the process. I’m about to argue that taking the fridge out should be deducted from the labour charge: what do you think?

Obviously I can’t prove that the technician was responsible for the problem. However, he failed to notice that one of the locker doors couldn’t be opened, that one locker door wasn’t supported by its strut (not a problem when I took it in: “sh!t happens”?). He also failed to replace the black plastic dust cap on the gas test point, marked the water supply to the toilet as “fail” because he assumed it wasn’t fed from the main tank and told me (incorrectly) that the Truma heater needed to have water in it for the space heating to work. When I collected the van this time I smelled gas in the gas locker: he told me that was to be expected (I don’t think so!). It transpired that the fridge knob was stuck in and gas was coming from the pilot jet in sufficient quantity to swamp the van and be picked up outside at the gas locker.

How strongly should I contest the £150 labour charge?

Gordon

Sue um.

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[Rapido925M]

UNBELIEVABLE: I came away on Thursday night only to discover that the fridge doesn't work on EHU! I suppose I have to be grateful that it works OK on gas now .

I have contacted my friend, the owner, who has quizzed his chief technician. "Perhaps the power supply is low on amps". Given that the fridge is rated 230V 135W that would mean that I couldn't achieve 0.59A: I'm wondering if he is looking for an alternative career as a comedian.

The cooling fan also doesn't work: the technician can't suggest a reason but says that it was "absolutely fine" in the workshop. So I'm reasonably confident about what has happened but I throw it open to the assembled Brains Trust for your ideas (other than hit him on the head with a heavy hammer )

Gordon

PS: The owner says "I feel we did a good job on the last visit and have full trust when J.... says the fridge was working"

 

[Rapido925M]

As the Brains Trust seem to be on holiday, let me give you my thoughts:

The fridge was removed to fit the replacement gas valve, then reinstated. The electrical connections are made via a choc-block system, with 2 for the 12V (positive, negative) and 3 for the 230V (line, neutral, earth). I suspect that the wires were pushed into their holes but not tightened sufficiently. Whilst the van was static, everything worked. But once it was on the road there was enough bounce and vibration to dislodge at least 2 wires: either of positive/negative and either of line/neutral. This stops both the fridge and the fan from working, which is exactly what I have got.

Currently we are dealing with a serious medical situation which requires us to live in the van on MiL's drive. Once that is resolved it is going back to the workshop for the fridge to be removed in my presence: fingers crossed that I'm correct otherwise it will be somewhat embarrassing.

Gordon

 

[Rapido925M]

I managed to find 30minutes yesterday, removed the top fridge vent and found a dodgy spade terminal. cleaned it up and now the fan runs, just as it has for the last 16y. Do you think this just a coincidence or evidence of poor workmanship (it's not a connection point which I have separated when removing the fridge but I don't know where they did it)?

Gordon

 

[The Wino]

I managed to find 30minutes yesterday, removed the top fridge vent and found a dodgy spade terminal. cleaned it up and now the fan runs, just as it has for the last 16y. Do you think this just a coincidence or evidence of poor workmanship (it's not a connection point which I have separated when removing the fridge but I don't know where they did it)?

Gordon

I think if it was dirty it's unlikely they removed it.

 

[Rapido925M]

I think if it was dirty it's unlikely they removed it.

Not dirty: hanging partially off! I separated it and cleaned it as a matter of course.

Gordon

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