Service rip off

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@Lanerboy I meant the mot would pick up if the brakes were insufficient, not check the fluid.
 
Theonlysue said:
@Lanerboy I meant the mot would pick up if the brakes were insufficient, not check the fluid.
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No because it only checks the brakes at low speed in the rollers you can not replicate what will happen at speed on a hot day in the rollers

An mot is only to get your vehicle to meet the minimum road safety level the rest is done on servicing
 
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ivorantony said:
Having worked in the motor trade for fifty years....
Small electronic tool dipped into the brake reservoir will give a read out of the water content, simples and it could save you life or the poor bugger you run into,
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Lanerboy said:
No they are a waste of money you need one that heats the fluid up
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So, we have a contradiction as to what is the correct tool and method for the job.....
One heats the fluid, one checks for water content by simply dipping.
While fluid does need changing it Makes a mockery of the reason to change fluid.

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I ordered the cheap one anyway :( it gets excellent reviews so I'll see how it goes... Hell it was only 4 quid :cool:
 
You would be amazed at the temperatures reached on the brakes of a 3.5 ton vehicle going down a steep hill. I sometimes carry a laser thermometer with me and tested the front discs after descending Blue bank (Whitby) with a 3.5 ton van plus a 2 ton trailer using gears as much as possible and the front disc surfaces were at over 200c.
 
pappajohn said:
So, we have a contradiction as to what is the correct tool and method for the job.....
One heats the fluid, one checks for water content by simply dipping.
While fluid does need changing it Makes a mockery of the reason to change fluid.
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OK I am now retired after doing my bit, the tool I used would be over 20 years old, still have it somewhere :D it worked pretty well as I recall,

Their is no denying the fact that water will contaminate your brake fluid over time I think you will agree? The amount of water will be variable from vehicle to vehicle so the manufactures arbitrarily say 2/3 years to cover them selves,
The cost of a can of DOT 5.1 and a bit of labour is very small in comparison to possible brake failure, so you pay your money and make your choice,
My own Motorhome is done every second year with new Discs all round and quality brake pads, It doesn’t work out much more than a tank of diesel, so to my mind it’s a no brainer IMO
 
Richard and Ann said:
The engine coolant has never been changed in 16 years either. The only things Done have been engine oil & filter. And cam belt about err... 8 years ago? :)
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One of the reasons I won't buy a new vehicle and after buying a 3 year old vehicle on finance once I'll not do that again either.

All these gimicks they pull or else warranty is void etc.

I've never changed brake fluid either
 
Also to add even with a massive drop in police spending they still find the money to replace the brake fluid on there pursuit cars yearly,
Admittedly they are used hard but it will reduce long term maintenance in the long run,
I wonder if it’s Me? But Motorhomers will spend £££ on superficial stuff
BBQ/ Awning/chairs/table and so forth But investing a few bob on quality oil/filters/brakes and tyres and doing the maintenance in a timely manner seems abhorrent to many,

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Tip of the day:
You could drain it out, strain it, then put it in a saucepan in the oven at 100°c for 1 hour. Cover and allow to cool :ROFLMAO:.. then test with meter and it will show 0% moisture.

Good for the environment too (y)

You can dry out refrigerant filter/dryers in the same way. :cool:
 
Lanerboy said:
No because it only checks the brakes at low speed in the rollers you can not replicate what will happen at speed on a hot day in the rollers
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We have brake fade testing on the rollers here now as the first test. Started this year.
They wind the rollers up like usual & you are required to brake whilst maintaining it within a marked segment , roughly 7 to 9 if on a clock.
Assuming it is ok then the fronts are tested as normal. The same routine on back .
 
Over 700 cars and vans and never once had my brakes fail

Never changed the fluid on any of them either. Bled a few mind you

But I also remember a time when we skimmed discs and had an autospark fix alternators and starter motors.
 
Brake pad makers have never made much money from me

I drive with plenty of room in front and drop back if somone pushes in

Engine braking is often enough to slow me down......hardly use the brakes but I do 'test' them when setting off....

Maybe it's just years of driving old vehicles with drum brakes and no power assist..
 
Northernraider said:
I've never changed brake fluid either
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Do you realise that if (God forbid) your involved in an incident which is caused by brake failure the police dig right into everything & I do mean everything including social media?
Your internet usage & type IS looked at, firstly to see if your properly rested & not surfing the net at silly o'clock (as used by prosecutors in the Selby train disaster) & secondly for any reasons to explain the cause of the incident.
If someone was to die is this "incident" & they found this post which you've freely admitted, you'd go to jail for a very long time?

It's one thing to disregard brake safety but, it's quite another to put it on line for everyone to see.
I'm honestly not trying to be rain on your parade, just pointing out a fact. :imoutahere:

To go back to the OP what the hell did Border Cars on Heathfield Road Ayr use as brake fluid that added that amount to the bill?
It never ceases to amaze me that people will spend many thousands of £££ssss just to keep a worthless warranty intact & lets face it, the dealership will by their very nature wriggle out of a claim by using the small print. :mad:

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ambulancekidd said:
Do you realise that if (God forbid) your involved in an incident which is caused by brake failure the police dig right into everything & I do mean everything including social media?
Your internet usage & type IS looked at, firstly to see if your properly rested & not surfing the net at silly o'clock (as used by prosecutors in the Selby train disaster) & secondly for any reasons to explain the cause of the incident.
If someone was to die is this "incident" & they found this post which you've freely admitted, you'd go to jail for a very long time?

It's one thing to disregard brake safety but, it's quite another to put it on line for everyone to see.
I'm honestly not trying to be rain on your parade, just pointing out a fact. :imoutahere:

To go back to the OP what the hell did Border Cars on Heathfield Road Ayr use as brake fluid that added that amount to the bill?
It never ceases to amaze me that people will spend many thousands of £££ssss just to keep a worthless warranty intact & lets face it, the dealership will by their very nature wriggle out of a claim by using the small print. :mad:
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There's actually no legal requirement to change my brake fluid....or indeed to have it serviced.


An mot test checks my brakes

I've enough mechanical experience to know my brakes are absolutely fine.

So I don't really care if my social media is checked or not.
 
Richard and Ann said:
I would be gobsmacked if a little 50bhp Arosas break fluid temperature ever rose above 50°c.
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Feel the discs after a town run - you just might change your mind. Then imagine a long downhill stretch where brakes are needed every few hundred yards: that's when fluid quality gets tested. Fluid testers aren't expensive (they work like damp meters) and will indicate the need for changing (or not).
 
Service Charges

  • Motorhome Habitation service: £198.00 (including VAT plus any parts required)
  • Mechanical service: £198.00 (including VAT plus any parts required)
But don't think this is all we can do! At Johns Cross we can supply and fit many different accessories at very competitive rates.

Labour Charges

Motorhome hourly rate: £60.00 (plus VAT)

Mechanical hourly rate: £60.00 (plus VAT)

we also have a full rolling road for brake testing

Peter
 
The discs will be a lot hotter than the fluid though. The front of the pads get hot, they wont conduct the heat efficiently onto the piston behind, then the caliper and piston are a big cold mass to absorb the heat. All the time being air cooled...

The fluid must get hot down a big hill fully loaded, towing or on a racetrack, but doubt if a car driver would ever notice a difference. And even if it does get hot and boil the water out, it will just make the brakes spongy, they still work. Brake fade used to be from cheap pad material that didn't work as well when hot.
Anyway I'm going to test it, so I can use my new gadget :cool:
 
Few people know how brake fluid works or why it is designed to be deliberately attractive to water. Superficially people think it would be safer if it was like oil: hydrophobic like DOT 5.

DOT4 brake fluid is engineered to attract water because water does get into the braking system over the years and if it stays as little droplets in the pipes it can rapidly rot them out from the inside at the point where the droplets end up, so the fluid readily attracts water to disperse it throughout the fluid of the whole car/van so it's safer.

DOT4 also generally turns YELLOW when it's got too much water in as a visual indication.

The less-safe issue with water soaked brake fluid (besides internal corrosion of your braking system leading to seal failures and possible seizing) is that of boiling, which can and does happen. The mechanism is this:

1. The brakes and calipers heat up to above 100 C (not difficult with red hot disks from a descent) as you brake and the fluid tries to boil...

2. At this point you are still safe, but when you release your foot the sudden reduction in pressure causes rapid boiling which pushes the fluid out of your calipers and back up to the reservoir in the bonnet.

3. Now - just because you took your foot off for a moment - your calipers are filled with (compressible) steam - and the brake pedal will do nothing at all but flap uselessly up and down.

So if you do like to run old brake fluid you may wish to modify your braking technique, otherwise spend £10 for some new fluid and bleed it through with a friend while topping up the reservoir, it's not such a bad job.

People also often overlook that calipers wear and that wear deposits metal dust in the calipers so every few years popping out the pistons to remove the sludge is also a good idea. Empty calipers are also very easy to bleed - often no pedal pumping is required. You may need an airline to balloon the dust boots back on though so for many it's a job for a garage.
 
As an aside, is bleeding still done with a rubber tube, a jam jar full of fluid and a spanner on a bleed valve on each wheel? Spent ages in the old days with missus pumping the pedal and then holding it down. Never could get the hang of it.
Is there some gizmo that does it now?
 
wingman said:
As an aside, is bleeding still done with a rubber tube, a jam jar full of fluid and a spanner on a bleed valve on each wheel? Spent ages in the old days with missus pumping the pedal and then holding it down. Never could get the hang of it.
Is there some gizmo that does it now?
Click to expand...
I've a self bleeder but works on same principle only you don't need a wife
 
wingman said:
As an aside, is bleeding still done with a rubber tube, a jam jar full of fluid and a spanner on a bleed valve on each wheel? Spent ages in the old days with missus pumping the pedal and then holding it down. Never could get the hang of it.
Is there some gizmo that does it now?
Click to expand...

You can still do it that way but we use a compressed air bleeding system which enable 1 technician to do it on their own as having 2 guys bleeding brakes is not cost effective in a business environment

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wingman said:
As an aside, is bleeding still done with a rubber tube, a jam jar full of fluid and a spanner on a bleed valve on each wheel? Spent ages in the old days with missus pumping the pedal and then holding it down. Never could get the hang of it.
Is there some gizmo that does it now?
Click to expand...

Pumping the pedal was my job as a nipper on dads moggy thousand. :D
 
GPW said:
Few people know how brake fluid works or why it is designed to be deliberately attractive to water. Superficially people think it would be safer if it was like oil: hydrophobic like DOT 5.

DOT4 brake fluid is engineered to attract water because water does get into the braking system over the years and if it stays as little droplets in the pipes it can rapidly rot them out from the inside at the point where the droplets end up, so the fluid readily attracts water to disperse it throughout the fluid of the whole car/van so it's safer.

DOT4 also generally turns YELLOW when it's got too much water in as a visual indication.

The less-safe issue with water soaked brake fluid (besides internal corrosion of your braking system leading to seal failures and possible seizing) is that of boiling, which can and does happen. The mechanism is this:

1. The brakes and calipers heat up to above 100 C (not difficult with red hot disks from a descent) as you brake and the fluid tries to boil...

2. At this point you are still safe, but when you release your foot the sudden reduction in pressure causes rapid boiling which pushes the fluid out of your calipers and back up to the reservoir in the bonnet.

3. Now - just because you took your foot off for a moment - your calipers are filled with (compressible) steam - and the brake pedal will do nothing at all but flap uselessly up and down.

So if you do like to run old brake fluid you may wish to modify your braking technique, otherwise spend £10 for some new fluid and bleed it through with a friend while topping up the reservoir, it's not such a bad job.

People also often overlook that calipers wear and that wear deposits metal dust in the calipers so every few years popping out the pistons to remove the sludge is also a good idea. Empty calipers are also very easy to bleed - often no pedal pumping is required. You may need an airline to balloon the dust boots back on though so for many it's a job for a garage.
Click to expand...

Great Post all very logical. Refrigeration Vac pump oil is hydroscopic to absorb moisture from fridge and A/C systems. Never thought of the pressure temperature effect :doh:. Still the water content would have to be pretty extreme to boil up and shove the fluid up the pipework. IMO :D
 
Tude said:
Being in the garage game for 12yrs I wud never do extra work on a vehicle without owners consent.or in this case more than double the bill you shud of been informed before any works. You have a case
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If only all garages were the same I took mine in to get heater checked as not working they replaced the resistor without asking me.
When I asked if it was faulty was told no, just looked like on way out
The proceeded to give me it for a spare
I was told would ring me to let know if work needed. Never did just did the work.
A week later stopped working again turned out it was a loose wire, which they did not even fix. This time sorted myself
Not surprisingly not been back since.
 
Richard and Ann said:
The engine coolant has never been changed in 16 years either. The only things Done have been engine oil & filter. And cam belt about err... 8 years ago? :)
Click to expand...

I was going to let this slide but possibly for the benefit of some that like to be proactive on there maintenance,
It’s not the antifreeze that will deteriorate over time it’s the corrosion inhibitors that reduce the corrosion between the normally aluminium
Cylinders heads and iron blocks of the modern engine,
I have scrapped hundreds of heads over the years were the aluminium waterways have crumbled back from the head gasket causing at least a breakdown and replacement head or worse a blown engine,
All this for the want of £10 of long life antifreeze every 5 years,
I just can’t get my head around it, some have paid £75000 on there M/H
Then penny pinch on something as trivial as this,

I often had customers who hadn’t open there bonnet from one year to the next, and got away with it, but also had a good number that hadn’t,
Small leak from a Hose/radiator/water pump will go undetected until the level drops below the top hose then your problems start,
I have had youngsters come in for a mot with a obviously very noisy water pump near to failure, their solution! Turn up the Radio,
but think nothing of spending a lot of money on new shoes or holidays,
 

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