Seeking Advice on Charging Leisure Batteries

[Donkster]

Hello folks
It’s been a while since I’ve been on here. I would like to seek information on charging my leisure batteries. Would it be ok to charge them while connected? See image if not what’s the normal procedure. Any help appreciated

 

[Brains]

The bit of kit you seem to be missing is a Battery Master

It will balance the input for any source (EHU, Solar, Engine etc) so that the engine battery gets charged first then the leisure battery gets the rest.
They cost about £50 and can be got mail order from VanBitz

 

[Donkster]

Hi Brains
Thank you for your reply, but I already have it installed from new.

 

[Figaro]

Don't you just plug into ehu at home and charge them that way ?
I do that every 2/3 weeks over winter when solars doing nothing.

 

[Donkster]

Hi Figaro
That’s exactly what I do but after a while I end up with the controller saying 98% but there actually lower than that? The charger system shuts it down after a certain voltage and I’m not aware of it happening

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[Figaro]

No idea why it should do that
Have you tried measuring the voltage across the terminals with a multimeter ?

 

[Lenny HB]

Hello folks
It’s been a while since I’ve been on here. I would like to seek information on charging my leisure batteries. Would it be ok to charge them while connected? See image if not what’s the normal procedure. Any help appreciated



View attachment 884924

Your charger is an Elektroblock whit has a multi stage charger so it is safe to leave it on all the time but not essential, you could just plug it in for a few hours each week.

 

[Donkster]

Hi Lenny
I normally just put it on now and again to keep it charged I’ve got the control panel saying 98% but then it’s cutting out the first I’m aware is the step not coming out

 

[Lenny HB]

Check the voltage at the batteries.

 

[LostInSpace]

Battery Master, Battery Mate and the device from Votronic all rely on the leisure battery voltage being well up before passing amps into the starter battery.

It [Battery Master] will balance the input for any source (EHU, Solar, Engine etc) so that the engine battery gets charged first then the leisure battery gets the rest.

Surely these can't both be correct?

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[bigtwin]

Surely these can't both be correct?

The former is correct.

Ian

 

[TheCaller]

I don't think either of those earlier statements are quite correct as far as the Battery Master is concerned.

As far as I know, the Battery Master will pass a trickle current from the leisure battery to the starter battery whenever the starter battery voltage is 0.7(?)V or more below the leisure battery voltage. I don't think the state of charge of the leisure battery is taken into account i.e if the starter battery was down to 9V & the leisure battery was down to 11V, it would still try to pass charge to the starter battery. If the leisure battery voltage is dropping below the starter battery, then the Battery Master will quite properly be doing nothing.

No doubt eddie or AshVanBitz will put us right if I haven't understood it correctly.

To answer the OP's question - yes, it's fine to charge the batteries while still connected. That's what happens every time you plug in the EHU lead or start the engine (or it should be). It does sound as if you have a problem though - the voltage shouldn't be dropping to the point that the step won't operate so soon. As suggested, first test is a multimeter across the battery terminals to see what the resting voltage is. I would do this after the charger has been turned off for an hour, then again maybe twice a day to see how fast the voltage is dropping. Either something is draining the battery or they have had it. Do you know how old they are?

 

[bigtwin]

As far as I know, the Battery Master will pass a trickle current from the leisure battery to the starter battery whenever the starter battery voltage is 0.7(?)V or more below the leisure battery voltage. I don't think the state of charge of the leisure battery is taken into account i.e if the starter battery was down to 9V & the leisure battery was down to 11V, it would still try to pass charge to the starter battery. If the leisure battery voltage is dropping below the starter battery, then the Battery Master will quite properly be doing nothing.

Yes, that’s a more accurate description of how it operates.

Ian

 

[Donkster]

I don't think either of those earlier statements are quite correct as far as the Battery Master is concerned.

As far as I know, the Battery Master will pass a trickle current from the leisure battery to the starter battery whenever the starter battery voltage is 0.7(?)V or more below the leisure battery voltage. I don't think the state of charge of the leisure battery is taken into account i.e if the starter battery was down to 9V & the leisure battery was down to 11V, it would still try to pass charge to the starter battery. If the leisure battery voltage is dropping below the starter battery, then the Battery Master will quite properly be doing nothing.

No doubt eddie or AshVanBitz will put us right if I haven't understood it correctly.

To answer the OP's question - yes, it's fine to charge the batteries while still connected. That's what happens every time you plug in the EHU lead or start the engine (or it should be). It does sound as if you have a problem though - the voltage shouldn't be dropping to the point that the step won't operate so soon. As suggested, first test is a multimeter across the battery terminals to see what the resting voltage is. I would do this after the charger has been turned off for an hour, then again maybe twice a day to see how fast the voltage is dropping. Either something is draining the battery or they have had it. Do you know how old they are?

Yes, that’s a more accurate description of how it operates.

Ian

Hi Ian
The batteries probably 3-4years old Covid has made me unclear can’t remember exactly.
I want to take them out and charge and put them back to test them. I kinda remember turning something off before I started last time ? If the control panel is turned off mains off would it be ok to just de wire the batteries charge and put back?

 

[TheCaller]

Hi Ian
The batteries probably 3-4years old Covid has made me unclear can’t remember exactly.
I want to take them out and charge and put them back to test them. I kinda remember turning something off before I started last time ? If the control panel is turned off mains off would it be ok to just de wire the batteries charge and put back?

Assuming no solar, yes, I would think so.

But if you have a mains supply now, via EHU, I'm not understanding why you want to take them out to charge them? I could understand it if you wanted to test them away from the vehicle, but you said you were going to put them back to do that.

Do you have a multimeter?

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[Donkster]

Thanks, the reason is the control panel is showing 98% charge but the 2 batteries not so, I thought I would take them out and charge put back and see if that changes things like a reset.
My control panel is a DT 220 B

 

[VXman]

Hello folks
It’s been a while since I’ve been on here. I would like to seek information on charging my leisure batteries. Would it be ok to charge them while connected? See image if not what’s the normal procedure. Any help appreciated

Yes it is fine to charge when connected, In fact that's the way all leisure and engine batteries work normally.

Your leisure batteries would normally charge from the engine (when running), EHU (when plugged in) and Solar (if you have it) Solar will charge at the same time at EHU or engine.

No need to take them out.

If you want to assess their charge leave them unused (everything switched off) for an hour or two and check with a multi meter once they have settled.
12.7 volts means fully charged. 12 volts is about 50% capacity which is about as low as you should go. Much less then 12 and its flat and probably buggered. When charging it could show anything above 12.7 up to 14v.

 

[Donkster]

I’m all set to take them both out give the a test and a charge there wired together as one

 

[Donkster]

Having taken them out 0 charge when tested ? like two new batteries bah
Thank you for all your comments very much appreciated, any recommendations

 

[TheCaller]

Having taken them out 0 charge when tested ?

How did you measure them?

Your batteries are Varta, which are a good make, but they are Dual Purpose, which are not ideal for use as habitation batteries. 4 years is probably as long as they could be expected to last, especially if they have been allowed to get low on a number of occasions. This is quite likely if you don't have solar.

What you should replace them with depends on how you want to use them. Do you have an inverter, if so what size & what do you run off it?

Do you plan to keep the van for long enough to worry about how long the new set will last?

If the answers are 'No' & 'Yes', then have a look on the front of your EBL (blue box on left in your picture) to see if there is a switch with a Gel setting. If not sure, post the EBL model number on here & someone will know if it is suitable & how to set it. If the EBL has a gel setting, then a pair of gel batteries are your best bet for long term habitation use without the need to power a large inverter. Exide & Sonnenschein are both good makes (and are actually the same battery) & the 900WH or 85AH are a typical size.

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[pappajohn]

Having taken them out 0 charge when tested ? like two new batteries bah
Thank you for all your comments very much appreciated, any recommendations

Then your meter needs replacing.
For starters a new battery will show around 12v to 12.7v, never 0v
I would say either your meter is knackered or you are mis-using it.

 

[Figaro]

Then your meter needs replacing.
For starters a new battery will show around 12v to 12.7v, never 0v
I would say either your meter is knackered or you are mis-using it.

I think he's testing the old ones but they should still show some voltage, unlikely to be 0v

 

[autorouter]

With the batteries out of the MH, and not connected together, what are the voltage readings of the two batteries? The percentage state of charge on the display is not a direct reading, it's a calculation based on the amps going in and out over the previous few hours or days.

Usually it's fairly accurate, but there are various reasons why it might be wrong. The battery voltage is an instant accurate reading, but it might not be an accurate reflection of the state of charge of the battery. If the battery is isolated (ie no load and no charging) and has been left to settle for a few hours then the voltage gives a more accurate picture of the percentage state of charge.

When you reconnect the leisure battery, you need to enter the total battery capacity in one of the display menus. However in your case it doesn't much matter because for the DT 220B panel the default choice is 130Ah, which is reasonably near the actual total capacity of your batteries (2 x 77Ah = 154Ah). If they are not brand new they have probably reduced to about 130Ah anyway.

 

[Donkster]

How did you measure them?

Your batteries are Varta, which are a good make, but they are Dual Purpose, which are not ideal for use as habitation batteries. 4 years is probably as long as they could be expected to last, especially if they have been allowed to get low on a number of occasions. This is quite likely if you don't have solar.

What you should replace them with depends on how you want to use them. Do you have an inverter, if so what size & what do you run off it?

Do you plan to keep the van for long enough to worry about how long the new set will last?

If the answers are 'No' & 'Yes', then have a look on the front of your EBL (blue box on left in your picture) to see if there is a switch with a Gel setting. If not sure, post the EBL model number on here & someone will know if it is suitable & how to set it. If the EBL has a gel setting, then a pair of gel batteries are your best bet for long term habitation use without the need to power a large inverter. Exide & Sonnenschein are both good makes (and are actually the same battery) & the 900WH or 85AH are a typical size.

Hi
I’m afraid my test was just a basic clamp on and press the button? I have them on charge and it’s looking good worth a try new battery chargers have a repair mode. Yes on the ebl there’s a small slider to set to gel, the way I’ve been caring for the batteries is every month I’ve switched the mains power on to charge them and because they were at 98% I thought I was ok

 

[Donkster]

With the batteries out of the MH, and not connected together, what are the voltage readings of the two batteries? The percentage state of charge on the display is not a direct reading, it's a calculation based on the amps going in and out over the previous few hours or days.

Usually it's fairly accurate, but there are various reasons why it might be wrong. The battery voltage is an instant accurate reading, but it might not be an accurate reflection of the state of charge of the battery. If the battery is isolated (ie no load and no charging) and has been left to settle for a few hours then the voltage gives a more accurate picture of the percentage state of charge.

When you reconnect the leisure battery, you need to enter the total battery capacity in one of the display menus. However in your case it doesn't much matter because for the DT 220B panel the default choice is 130Ah, which is reasonably near the actual total capacity of your batteries (2 x 77Ah = 154Ah). If they are not brand new they have probably reduced to about 130Ah anyway.

Thanks Autorouter
That’s a little bit in depth for me, right now I’ll charge them and see how I go nothing to lose. If not two new ones

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[Donkster]

Hi
I’m afraid my test was just a basic clamp on and press the button? I have them on charge and it’s looking good worth a try new battery chargers have a repair mode. Yes on the ebl there’s a small slider to set to gel, the way I’ve been caring for the batteries is every month I’ve switched the mains power on to charge them and because they were at 98% I thought I was ok

I did manage to test both batteries with a multimeter and they are 18.73 and 17.75 I’ve put them back at first the panel registered them at 50% the panel was charging them at14.45 now they’re 100%

 

[autorouter]

I did manage to test both batteries with a multimeter and they are 18.73 and 17.75

That's way too high for lead-acid batteries, I'd be worried if they were mine. Usually they are around 12.0 to 12.8V when disconnected, with no loads and no charging. A charger can force them up to maybe 14.8V maximum during normal charging. Some battery chargers have a high-voltage stage for destratifying the the electrolyte and breaking down residual sulfation, but that usually isn't higher than 16V.

In fact it's so high I would think it's worth checking your multimeter. Try it on a normal car battery to see what you get. Also check the battery inside the meter - when that gets low it can make the meter read high.

 

[Lenny HB]

I did manage to test both batteries with a multimeter and they are 18.73 and 17.75 I’ve put them back at first the panel registered them at 50% the panel was charging them at14.45 now they’re 100%

Your multimeter probably has a flat battery they read high when the battery is low.

 

[gpat]

Check the voltage at the batteries.

Hi Lenny

If I plug the outlet of a solar controller into the solar input of the EBL will it charge both the vehicle and leisure batteries?

 

[Lenny HB]

Hi Lenny

If I plug the outlet of a solar controller into the solar input of the EBL will it charge both the vehicle and leisure batteries?

Only if it's a dual charger, there are 3 connections negative, hab battery & starter battery.
Always best to bypass the EBL you lose about 5% through it.

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