Schengen zone restrictions

[Pete5996]

Honestly, we don't know!
I do know we have the right to remain permanently in the country of residence.
I would expect if you fly direct to and from your country of residence, your residency paperwork may suffice, but if driving through France and Spain I expect from reading that, that we may need a visa to enter those en route countries, as we would be entering a schengen country where we are not resident.
Have to wait and see?

If you are a UK citizen and legally resident in any Schengen country, you will be able to travel anywhere within the Schengen area as there are no border controls to check, so driving back from Portugal won't be a problem. The only restriction when travelling into another Schengen country will be the requirement to register if staying over 90 days.
Returning to the UK won't be any problem if you have a UK passport but, on re-entering the Schengen area, you'll need to show some evidence of residence (such as a carte de sejour in France) to avoid having to get an ETIAS visa, which would impose a time limit on your stay.

 

[weejocky]

Unless you can prove you are a refugee. I would say be grateful you aren’t

Who's talking about me?

 

[Offagain]

if you have a residence status in a EU country is there any right to enter and leave as you wish, or does the UK.passport issue cause an issue.?

We have a boat in Greece and since owning it have spent 4/5 months a year there.
The Cruising Association have done some work around this so last year we applied for and were given residency permits. Apparently we are now allowed to spend as much time as we want in Greece without it affecting our 90/180 status post Brexit so we will be able to enjoy touring in the motor home duirng times we’re not on the boat. When the U.K. leaves the EU we will have to apply for new permits as TCN’s but the Greeks have told the CA that for those who already have them it will just be a paper exercise to swap one for the other.
I suppose if we exceed the 90/180 in the rest of Schengen and were challenged we could claim that we had been in Greece the whole time as there are no physical borders, but if they were determined they could track us using phone records, bank cards etc.

 

[Lot lover]

Pete5996 - that is the way that we choose to interpret things also. As long as we stay in Schengen no-one knows or probably cares exactly where we are. We plan to join the CDS queue as soon as we return home or possibly the French nationalisation queue, whichever is easier, quicker and/or cheaper.

In the meantime we have no intention of spending >90 days in another Schengen country just in case though I do not see how anyone would know. As for visiting the U.K. we will just have to forego that pleasure until our new paperwork is sorted or whenever.

 

[Oscar]

Regarding tracing your family tree - anyone any pointers or recommendations which sites are most useful?

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[Puddleduck]

We are lucky we have just found out Lynne’s grandfather is Irish he was born in Dublin 1908 and then came to England six months later , we have traced all the paperwork she needs to apply for a Irish passport.

Start checking your family tree !

Martin's Great-Grandfather was Irish so he doesn't qualify. If his Dad had still been alive he could have applied and then passed the entitlement down.

 

[Oscar]

So Helen Puddleduck, does it only qualify as far as grandparents? Thanks

 

[Pete5996]

Pete5996 - that is the way that we choose to interpret things also. As long as we stay in Schengen no-one knows or probably cares exactly where we are. We plan to join the CDS queue as soon as we return home or possibly the French nationalisation queue, whichever is easier, quicker and/or cheaper.

In the meantime we have no intention of spending >90 days in another Schengen country just in case though I do not see how anyone would know. As for visiting the U.K. we will just have to forego that pleasure until our new paperwork is sorted or whenever.

Unfortunately I'll be finding myself in the UK on 31st Jan - probably have an early night...

Re the CdS, Cahors stopped processing anything early last year, unlike many prefectures. I had my CdS appt at the end of April where I submitted all the necessary papers (at not a little expense for translations) to be told that they wouldn't do anything with them until they had instructions. When the online system was introduced in November, I contacted them for advice and received the following reply:
Dans l'attente d'instructions concernant la mise en oeuvre du Brexit, la fabrication des cartes UE a été suspendue pour les ressortissants britanniques. Vous avez actuellement un droit au séjour sans avoir besoin de disposer d'un titre de séjour. Je vous invite à consulter les sites www.lot.gouv.fr ou www.brexit.gouv.fr pour connaître les évolutions liées à la mise en oeuvre du Brexit.

Hopefully a standardised procedure will be announced soon....

 

[Puddleduck]

So Helen Puddleduck, does it only qualify as far as grandparents? Thanks

Full details are here:

Citizenship - Department of Foreign Affairs

Applications and questions about Irish citizenship are dealt with by the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS). We deal with Foreign Births Registration only.

www.dfa.ie

"You are automatically an Irish citizen if one of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, and was born on the island of Ireland. You don't need to apply to become an Irish citizen in this case.

If you were born outside of Ireland, you can become an Irish citizen if:

1. One of your grandparents was born in Ireland, or;
2. One of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, even though they were not born in Ireland.

In these cases, you can become an Irish citizen through Foreign Birth Registration."



We made enquiries a while back when thinking of moving to Eire - obviously that didn't happen!

 

[Lot lover]

Pete5996 -is that standardised as in each dept making up it's own rules as it goes along ? Business as usual then.

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[Kelso]

As far as I know the schengen rules already apply but is not generally enforced.
Did speak to a guy from New Zealand crossing from greece to Bulgaria and they were fined €600 each passenger for overstaying.
The emphasis is if you are stopped by the police you must prove that you have not overstayed (I.e. ferry tickets etc).
What I am trying to find out now is it the person who is restricted or the motorhome or both.
I.e. could you park your camper in a private carpark in portugal, fly back to the uk, spent 3 months there and then return to your camper and have another 3 months in a schengen zone county. Thereby saving the cost of returning with your motorhome.
If anybody know please tell me.

 

[Hilewaychile]

You can apply for an annual visa for a country but then that only allows you to visit another Schengen country for 90 days in 180, what I'm not clear about is whether having spent 90 days in one country other than the country you have the visa for you, can then move on to another country for 90 days or do you have to return to the visa country first for 90 days etc. And with no borders between european countries how would they know

The answer is 'No'. The rules will be, once No Free Movement is confirmed between UK and EU - 90 in any 180 days in any and all of the Schengen Area. So I, as a British registered resident of Spain, will have the same restriction - 90 day/180. I woud have to return to Spain on/by day 90.

Ironically, if I returned to UK for 91+ days, I would legally be obliged to register as a resident of UK!

 

[spitfire]

I thought you wanted out of Europe and now it seems you all want in !!!

 

[spitfire]

Unfortunately I'll be finding myself in the UK on 31st Jan - probably have an early night...

Re the CdS, Cahors stopped processing anything early last year, unlike many prefectures. I had my CdS appt at the end of April where I submitted all the necessary papers (at not a little expense for translations) to be told that they wouldn't do anything with them until they had instructions. When the online system was introduced in November, I contacted them for advice and received the following reply:
Dans l'attente d'instructions concernant la mise en oeuvre du Brexit, la fabrication des cartes UE a été suspendue pour les ressortissants britanniques. Vous avez actuellement un droit au séjour sans avoir besoin de disposer d'un titre de séjour. Je vous invite à consulter les sites www.lot.gouv.fr ou www.brexit.gouv.fr pour connaître les évolutions liées à la mise en oeuvre du Brexit.

Hopefully a standardised procedure will be announced soon....

My understanding big is it will all be on line now even for the exchange of an EU CdS for a TCN one

 

[Hilewaychile]

This assumes that someone is going to bother to track your movements across Europe ?
Is the infrastructure in place to do that ?
Even if it's possible to do, which is no simple task, will there be a desire to restrict tourists.

The assumption, quite reasonably, is that 'tourists' do not spend 90+ days on holiday. The tourist industry will not be affected.

It is very dangerous - see #71 Kelso - to assume that you have not been 'tracked'. Passing through a m/way toll, for example - they've seen you. ANPR has it down. The same with the apparently borderless transitions from one country to another. It's as much or more to do with security/terrorists/criminals than snowbirds overstaying.

And the real p.i.t.a. is that the onus is ON YOU to prove you have not overstayed, not on the authorities to prove you have. People who come and go from holiday homes in Spain are constantly urged on forums to keep documents that can prove they have not overstayed 90 days, which, prior to the Schengen issue of this thread, is an issue re registering as a resident of the country, which, at 91 days, you are legally obliged to do.

The end of Freedom of Movement, one of the central planks of the Brexiteer manifesto, has holed snowbirding below the waterline. There's little hope of the EU relenting on this. It's already in the WA and as the UK position on EU residents of UK is more hard-line that the EU's on Brits in EU, we can't reasonably hope for better.

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[Hilewaychile]

Thanks.
So, to be clear in my head, even if I spend only 4 days in the Schengen zone just travelling to let’s say Croatia where I plan to stay 82 days, my permitted time left is 4 days to get back to the port and keave the zone.
(Apologies if I’m just not twigging!)

No. You have a 90 day 'entitlement' in any 180 to be in a Schengen country. So after Croatia you still have 86 days Schengen left. But you must be careful to clock the day you left Schengen, keep evidence of being in Croatia - ATM/supermarket/w.h.y. receipts, photo of you + Croatian newspaper ... before you re-enter Schengen

 

[jumartoo]

No. You have a 90 day 'entitlement' in any 180 to be in a Schengen country. So after Croatia you still have 86 days Schengen left. But you must be careful to clock the day you left Schengen, keep evidence of being in Croatia - ATM/supermarket/w.h.y. receipts, photo of you + Croatian newspaper ... before you re-enter Schengen

Just be aware Croatia are (hopefully for them) due to become Schengen members.

 

[bobandjanie]

Officially as residents in Spain and being UK citizens we will be restricted by the 90 / 180 rules, unless there is an agreement, the same with requirements for a Visa, Spain say if Spanish don't need a Visa to visit the UK, them the UK doesn't need one to visit Spain. ?
Janie went to the meeting with the British ambassador, he said we won't have any problems moving around in the zone, it's when we leave the schengen zone, as in visits to the UK then our clock starts ticking, ? but as I have not stayed longer than 6 weeks a year for the last 7 years ? we should be OK. ? Bob.

 

[gus-lopez]

Very interesting.
From reading that, those of us fortunate enough to have residency in a schengen country (and still hold a uk passport) may also need a visa if we travel back to the UK and then return, especially if having to drive through other countries?

When I asked the question re being asked to apply for a visa to re enter EU from the UK , as a spanish resident the reply from the foreigners office here was that it could be deemed to be giving up your residencia?

if you have a residence status in a EU country is there any right to enter and leave as you wish, or does the UK.passport issue cause an issue.?

How does anyone know ? I'm driving a spanish vehicle & with a spanish driving licence. Having been stopped on my recent return from the UK twice in France & once in spain & with none of them even asking for any personal paperwork ,or passport /id card .

I do know we have the right to remain permanently in the country of residence.

I don't know about Portugal but here we have until the end of the year to change our permanent residency papers for the plastic identity card once again. Why we ever had to change before was a mystery.

but if driving through France and Spain I expect from reading that, that we may need a visa to enter those en route countries, as we would be entering a schengen country where we are not resident.

It would only be the UK or French requiring one. The spaniards wouldn't even know you had entered unlees you are driving a UK reg.

Returning to the UK won't be any problem if you have a UK passport but, on re-entering the Schengen area, you'll need to show some evidence of residence (such as a carte de sejour in France) to avoid having to get an ETIAS visa, which would impose a time limit on your stay.

You don't need a passport to re.enter the Uk if a citizen.You only need one to exit the place. As above if you apply you can be deemed to have given up your residency here.

 

[Tanya_and_Mick]

Some more info....

https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp-content/uploads/Brexit-Transition-Period-for-UKNS.pdf

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[gus-lopez]

if you have a residence status in a EU country is there any right to enter and leave as you wish, or does the UK.passport issue cause an issue.?

We would be using the new TIE card same as a spanish ID card & what we had before complete with finger prints. Hopefully this time we will be allowed to travel using it & without passport as Schengen members.

Unfortunately I'll be finding myself in the UK on 31st Jan - probably have an early night...

Re the CdS, Cahors stopped processing anything early last year, unlike many prefectures. I had my CdS appt at the end of April where I submitted all the necessary papers (at not a little expense for translations) to be told that they wouldn't do anything with them until they had instructions. When the online system was introduced in November, I contacted them for advice and received the following reply:
Dans l'attente d'instructions concernant la mise en oeuvre du Brexit, la fabrication des cartes UE a été suspendue pour les ressortissants britanniques. Vous avez actuellement un droit au séjour sans avoir besoin de disposer d'un titre de séjour. Je vous invite à consulter les sites www.lot.gouv.fr ou www.brexit.gouv.fr pour connaître les évolutions liées à la mise en oeuvre du Brexit.

Hopefully a standardised procedure will be announced soon....

& this is actually illegal under EU rules. France should be registering people up to & including thw 31st December 2020 , as other states are still doing.( See note in Mick's Tanya_and_Mick s link re ;registering in spain before end of transition period.)

 

[The Wino]

We would be using the new TIE card same as a spanish ID card & what we had before complete with finger prints. Hopefully this time we will be allowed to travel using it & without passport as Schengen members.

& this is actually illegal under EU rules. France should be registering people up to & including thw 31st December 2020 , as other states are still doing.( See note in Mick's Tanya_and_Mick s link re ;registering in spain before end of transition period.)

How long would you have to have been there for to apply?

 

[gus-lopez]

Some more info....

https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp-content/uploads/Brexit-Transition-Period-for-UKNS.pdf

It actually states in there that the new cards aren't going to be available for a few months ,which is what out policeman friend found when he went t get us appointments last week,3-4 months he was told.

 

[gus-lopez]

How long would you have to have been there for to apply?

The EU rules state thatif you are here over 90 days you have to apply for residency. They also used to state that if you arrive KNOWING you are going to stay over 90 days then you can apply immediately.

 

[nicholsong]

The EU rules state thatif you are here over 90 days you have to apply for residency. They also used to state that if you arrive KNOWING you are going to stay over 90 days then you can apply immediately.

G-L

I assume you are stating the rules for Non-Schengen residents.

I think for Schengen Residents the rule is just that one must Register but not apply for Residency.

I hope to have EU Residency soon.

Geoff

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[2657]

I am somewhat puzzled by statements that even after registering as a temporary resident the Schengen 90/180 day rule still applies to UK passport holders.

In Portugal it is not possible to apply for permanent residency until you have been a resident for five years and not possible to apply for citizenship until six years.

How is it possible to be a resident of a country and then not be allowed to live there?

 

[nicholsong]

I am somewhat puzzled by statements that even after registering as a temporary resident the Schengen 90/180 day rule still applies to UK passport holders.

In Portugal it is not possible to apply for permanent residency until you have been a resident for five years and not possible to apply for citizenship until six years.

How is it possible to be a resident of a country and then not be allowed to live there?

Well here in Poland one can get a Temporary Residency Card which entitles one to live in Poland and travel within the EU.

I think the same is available throughout the EU.

As you say it is 5 years before one can get Permanent Residence status but there seems to be no difference in practice.

The 90 days in any one EU country applies to all EU Citizens or Residents after which they have to Register their presence in the country, but cannot be forced to leave.

Geoff

 

[DerryW]

Assuming you hold an EU passport (Irish) but reside in the UK does the 90 days still apply.

I apricate nothing changes until 31/12/2020 but would be nice to know.

Thanks

 

[The Lord Squid]

I thought you wanted out of Europe and now it seems you all want in !!!

I never wanted out. And still don't.

 

[billym]

Turkey are to remove visa restrictions for UK and other countries from March 1st 2020.
You will be allowed 90 days in any 180

Every little helps

Turkey to abolish visas for UK tourists

Turkey is set to welcome six countries, including the UK and Poland, into its visa-free club as a move to open European borders.

www.google.com

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