Schengen confusion

[Twos company]

Well they weren’t happy at Calais tunnel passport control despite showing our marriage cert and my wife’s Irish passport to prove our joint travel, got a bollocking for exceeding 90days I got stamped in Santander back in august and again today in Calais they weren’t interested my explanation or paper work I had
What next? Do I have to wait to return or just ignore it

 

[nicholsong]

Well they weren’t happy at Calais tunnel passport control despite showing our marriage cert and my wife’s Irish passport to prove our joint travel, got a bollocking for exceeding 90days I got stamped in Santander back in august and again today in Calais they weren’t interested my explanation or paper work I had
What next? Do I have to wait to return or just ignore it

That is bad news, although I did foresee problems with Immigration Officers not bein trained up enough to know the rules properly.

If you are genuinely travelling with your Irish wife, when they scan you into the Schengen computer, how do they record that in the computer?

 

[bobandjanie]

The trouble is nobody can stay in one single European country more than 90 days, it doesn't matter what passport you hold without either applying for residency, or providing you hold a EU passport leave the country and spend 90 in another or leave for a day or two and return to the original.

Some of the Europeans on the campsite are worried about them clamping down on them, after seeing what's happening to their UK friends, it would be a inconvenience for them to go home for a couple of days and returning but some do, some especially Belgium that have to go back and make their presence known.
So when we ask our Irish friend how long he can stay in Spain, and his reply is a long as he wants, is wrong it's only the fact they are not checking EU passport holders, and it was the same when the UK was in the club.

So probably better if your travelling through different countries to gather as much evidence as possible on your journey. Bob.

 

[Twos company]

We did and we entered through Santander and returned through Calais we didn’t stay more than 90 days in Spain the trouble is passport control isn’t the place to start arguing as they just want you through as quick as possible

 

[Manxcat]

Please keep us informed as to what happens.

I fully intend to take advantage of my wife's new Irish passport exactly like you. Only possible difference is we only go away for about 60 days at a time. But definitely exceeding the 90/180 rule.

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[Badknee]

So are you saying that a couple travelling on a Dutch or German or French passport are not allowed to stay in Spain for example for more than 90 days?

 

[Manxcat]

So are you saying that a couple travelling on a Dutch or German or French passport are not allowed to stay in Spain for example for more than 90 days?

It has always been the case. Staying over 90 days in Spain causes issues of spanish residency tax liabilities and other issues. In reality it is simply not enfoced

 

[Badknee]

Found it.......


Irish citizens don't need a visa to enter Spain if the visit lasts less than 90 days (3 months) within a period of 180 days. But by the end of 2022, it'll be mandatory to apply for an ETIAS visa waiver to enter Spain. If you plan to live in Spain for more than 3 months, you'll need to get a Certificate of Registration.Feb 23, 2022

 

[gus-lopez]

So are you saying that a couple travelling on a Dutch or German or French passport are not allowed to stay in Spain for example for more than 90 days?

Yes. as said 90 consecutive days & you have to pop next door & reset the clock to be legal. Was always the same even when UK in the club.No one did & not usually a problem until there is some sort of legal incident & they start checking.

 

[nicholsong]

The trouble is nobody can stay in one single European country more than 90 days, it doesn't matter what passport you hold without either applying for residency, or providing you hold a EU passport leave the country and spend 90 in another or leave for a day or two and return to the original.

Some of the Europeans on the campsite are worried about them clamping down on them, after seeing what's happening to their UK friends, it would be a inconvenience for them to go home for a couple of days and returning but some do, some especially Belgium that have to go back and make their presence known.
So when we ask our Irish friend how long he can stay in Spain, and his reply is a long as he wants, is wrong it's only the fact they are not checking EU passport holders, and it was the same when the UK was in the club.

So probably better if your travelling through different countries to gather as much evidence as possible on your journey. Bob.

It is true that a stay of more than 90 days requires one to Register, but I think that not in all countries is that trigger date for applying for Residency.

Anyway one could fill in the form, including a campsite address for instance and by the time the administration had processed it as 'unacceptable' you could be long gone from there and untraceable.

My experience in Poland was that I was here as a UK Citizen(before Brexit) for 8 years, with no formal address i.e. no rental agreement. After Brexit I applied formally for residence, which I now have. Prior to the application I had applied for customs exemption for the MH as a personal chattel import, but much more than 90 days before the residency application. A clerk said I would be fined about £40. That was 2 years ago - nothing.

We had been frequently travelling in the MH in and out of Slowakia, Germany and UK, flying to Canaries x 4 etc. and I genuinely did not know if I breached 90 days, nor could the authorities

The joke is that where we live is a house owned by Basia's policeman son, but he is a firearms instructor and may not know about the 90-day registration rule, same as probably half the policemen in Schengen.

All an example that most countries inside Schengen do not care a toss about the 90-day registration/residency rule or enforcing it.

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[bobandjanie]

Found it.......


Irish citizens don't need a visa to enter Spain if the visit lasts less than 90 days (3 months) within a period of 180 days. But by the end of 2022, it'll be mandatory to apply for an ETIAS visa waiver to enter Spain. If you plan to live in Spain for more than 3 months, you'll need to get a Certificate of Registration.Feb 23, 2022

How to Obtain the EU Registration Certificate in Spain

Access the step by step process (including documents and legal requirements) to obtain your residency in Spain (green card) as a European Union citizen.

www.immigrationspain.es

However, as a general requirement, you must apply for your EU certificate during the first three months after you enter the country.

Yes its the application for residency. Bob

 

[Badknee]

All an example that most countries inside Schengen do not care a toss about the 90-day registration/residency rule or enforcing it.

I wonder if it was one of our French ‘friends’ being arsey? We’ve got loads of Dutch and German families on site here for four or five months every year but of course they don’t cross any manned borders or customs posts to get home do they?

 

[Badknee]

Well that buggers that up from the start then.......

Are you a citizen of the European Union who would like to start living in Spain? In this post, you are going to learn everything you need to know about the EU registration certificate.

We’re not part of the European Union or from Switzerland who have an agreement.

 

[bobandjanie]

nicholsong There has been many people trying to beat the system, we see them everyday on our local groups saying they stamped me out, but not in so they don't know I'm here.
Your the ex lawyer Geoff and can imagine your have something up your sleeve.
But it's not really any concern of the police but they do get involved some more than others, it immigrations job they are the ones you can't fool, they have your details as soon as you book a flight or crossing, and they don't personally look at ever stamp in the passport and work out if you are breaking the law, but some immigration officials are keener than others. Bob.

 

[nicholsong]

nicholsong There has been many people trying to beat the system, we see them everyday on our local groups saying they stamped me out, but not in so they don't know I'm here.
Your the ex lawyer Geoff and can imagine your have something up your sleeve.
But it's not really any concern of the police but they do get involved some more than others, it immigrations job they are the ones you can't fool, they have your details as soon as you book a flight or crossing, and they don't personally look at ever stamp in the passport and work out if you are breaking the law, but some immigration officials are keener than others. Bob.

Bob

I was really answering your point about it not mattering which passport one carries, e.g.. a EU passport in another EU country, but still required to register after 90 days.

Another point I failed to make is that registration in many countries is dealt with on a regional, town level so I doubt whether the authorities have the ability/desire to contact all regions/national agencies to see if you have registered elsewhere in that country.

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[bobandjanie]

That's why you have to start the procedure in the first 3 months, once they start processing your application you can stay longer.

However, as a general requirement, you must apply for your EU certificate during the first three months after you enter the country

All this goes into the system at the police station, where it goes from there I don't know, just like our holiday rental guests the day they arrive we log into the police computer using our ÌD they gave us and register everyone staying 16 and over, does that information stay where we put it or is that information shared after all it's not just about who's where, it's also to catch terrorists and criminals. Bob.

 

[nicholsong]

That's why you have to start the procedure in the first 3 months, once they start processing your application you can stay longer.

However, as a general requirement, you must apply for your EU certificate during the first three months after you enter the country

All this goes into the system at the police station, where it goes from there I don't know, just like our holiday rental guests the day they arrive we log into the police computer using our ÌD they gave us and register everyone staying 16 and over, does that information stay where we put it or is that information shared after all it's not just about who's where, it's also to catch terrorists and criminals. Bob.

Do campsites have to do the same?

 

[bobandjanie]

Do campsites have to do the same?

Yes same as hotels, probably when the police drive by your in the system, I think when they have road blocks in Spain they seem to slow you down and by the time you nearly stop, have numberplate recognition and wave us locals through.
Big brother is always watching. Bob.

 

[Dutch 68]

As said in other threads today, we have just entered through euro Chunnel today, out of 181 days of travel spend 35 in UK the rest in Schengen , no one battered an eye lid

 

[Dutch 68]

Well they weren’t happy at Calais tunnel passport control despite showing our marriage cert and my wife’s Irish passport to prove our joint travel, got a bollocking for exceeding 90days I got stamped in Santander back in august and again today in Calais they weren’t interested my explanation or paper work I had
What next? Do I have to wait to return or just ignore it

Print out the paperwork from the Eu website and that’s it, if they don’t know their own rules ask for a supervisor, you are well within your rights so it will have no consequences for you

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[Manxcat]

Print out the paperwork from the Eu website and that’s it, if they don’t know their own rules ask for a supervisor, you are well within your rights so it will have no consequences for you

Can you provide a link for the paperwork to print out? Thanks

 

[Dutch 68]

Can you provide a link for the paperwork to print out? Thanks

 

[gus-lopez]

the trouble is passport control isn’t the place to start arguing as they just want you through as quick as possible

It is exactly the place to start arguing & with the vehicle turned off & locked up so that no one can pass. Don't fall for the " just park over there" routine either.

 

[Northernraider]

It is exactly the place to start arguing & with the vehicle turned off & locked up so that no one can pass. Don't fall for the " just park over there" routine either.

I'm just curious how many times you've been arrested

 

[jumar]

I'm just curious how many times you've been arrested

If you do answer that Richard. Please include the number of times you have stood your ground and managed to get your case over....knowing you as a good friend, I imagine a few instances...

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[Jim]

I'm just curious how many times you've been arrested

None, He garrots them before they have a chance.

 

[Carpmart]

Well they weren’t happy at Calais tunnel passport control despite showing our marriage cert and my wife’s Irish passport to prove our joint travel, got a bollocking for exceeding 90days I got stamped in Santander back in august and again today in Calais they weren’t interested my explanation or paper work I had
What next? Do I have to wait to return or just ignore it

Well that really isn’t good news is it! I’m travelling Boxing Day!

I’m going to hand over one passport (Irish wife’s) and a marriage certificate and copy of EU Directive 2004-38-EC article 5&6 in particular. I suspect they will ask what all that is and where is my passport, I’m hoping this leads into the right conversation to explain their rules to them. My hope is that I don’t get the passport stamped on the way out. I shall then repeat on the way back 120 odd days later….

I hope this doesn’t lead to further problems for you Duffie, do keep us posted.

 

[Carpmart]

An observation on this thread… again there are discussions about two different aspect taking place.

An EU citizen (passport holder) is entitled to travel around the EU for an unlimited period with their spouse (this is situation Duffie is highlighting). EU Directive 2004-38-EU clearly states this.

Any EU citizen, provided they have the reasonable means to support themselves, can stay for up to 90 days in any EU member state, with their spouse, without restriction. 90 days is a limit for every EU citizen in one member state. It is not a limit for the number of days an EU citizen and spouse can be in the EU territory as a whole. There is no restriction on this, provided the 90 day per EU country is observed.

It’s really as simple as that. The border officials clearly do not know their own rules, as experienced by Duffie, which is a problem!

 

[jongood]

An observation on this thread… again there are discussions about two different aspect taking place.

An EU citizen (passport holder) is entitled to travel around the EU for an unlimited period with their spouse (this is situation Duffie is highlighting). EU Directive 2004-38-EU clearly states this.

Any EU citizen, provided they have the reasonable means to support themselves, can stay for up to 90 days in any EU member state, with their spouse, without restriction. 90 days is a limit for every EU citizen in one member state. It is not a limit for the number of days an EU citizen and spouse can be in the EU territory as a whole. There is no restriction on this, provided the 90 day per EU country is observed.

It’s really as simple as that. The border officials clearly do not know their own rules, as experienced by Duffie, which is a problem!

I'm finding this puzzling; Croatia is in the EU but not yet in Schengen, like Ireland, it also has manned borders, like Ireland. Ireland is still in the common travel area with us, so bearing in mind the lack of a border between North and South how could they join it anyway? So does an Irish passport give people the schengen rights?

 

[Carpmart]

I'm finding this puzzling; Croatia is in the EU but not yet in Schengen, like Ireland, it also has manned borders, like Ireland. Ireland is still in the common travel area with us, so bearing in mind the lack of a border between North and South how could they join it anyway? So does an Irish passport give people the schengen rights?

Schengen is a ‘red herring’ regarding this. You don’t need Schengen rights if you are not seen by the EU as a third country national. An EU citizen (passport holder) has the same rights as pre Brexit under Directive 2004-38-EU, so Schengen is irrelevant.

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