SCARBOROUGH - No longer welcome :-(

[jezport]

What's a bank got to do with it?

SBC means Scarborough Borough Council

 

[GJH]

BTW the parking of motorhomes and any other types of vehicle is free between 7.00am and 11.00pm out of season. It is between 11.00pm and 7.00am that we are banned from parking.

[HI]The sealife centre carpark still has no overnight parking ban signs. Don't know if the council are deliberatly but unofficially leaving it that way for motorhomes, because if you contact them their reply is that overnight sleeping in their carparks is not permitted.[/HI]

The way in which Scarborough Borough Council's order applies to its off-street car parks is on the council's web site and has been since the latest order was made. The page for Scalby Mills car park is Here.

At the end of the day it is the wording of the order which matters not the signage. A number of councils simply state something along the lines of "Parking must comply with the current order" on their signs. That enables them to publish any changes cheaply on web sites and in leaflets rather than going to the expense of new signs.

 

[GJH]

SBC means Scarborough Borough Council

Yes, I know that.
1. It was HSBC when I asked.
2. As posted a few minutes ago, what has SBC to do with NYCC orders?

 

[jezport]

All the highlighted posts refer to on-street orders made by North Yorkshire County Council so that prompts a similar question - what relevance has notifying the chief executive of Scarborough Borough Council to the matter?

Its SBC who issue PCNs so it would be one of their staff who would be sent out to us.

 

[GJH]

Its SBC who issue PCNs so it would be one of their staff who would be sent out to us.

OK. Point taken.

We are here in Scarborough. There are about 7 vans parked up on the front and we will see if the parking wardens hassle us at 11.00
[HI]The council have put notifications of the new temporary traffic order for 2014 on lamp posts around the area[/HI]

As a matter of interest when does/did the 2014 order start?

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[jezport]

See attachment

 

[GJH]

See attachment

Thank you. Looks like they decided not to play at publicity stunts then (always assuming that the message got through about the stunt).

As Steve said earlier, in the height of season it will be likely to be a different story.

Basically all that has been achieved (assuming either council is aware) is that they now have more ammunition to support a stance that motorhomers are people who don't care about the law and do just what they want anyway.

 

[jezport]

Thank you. Looks like they decided not to play at publicity stunts then (always assuming that the message got through about the stunt).

As Steve said earlier, in the height of season it will be likely to be a different story.

Basically all that has been achieved (assuming either council is aware) is that they now have more ammunition to support a stance that motorhomers are people who don't care about the law and do just what they want anyway.

Or they could see that we all parked up, caused no environmental damage, disturbed no-one , spent money at a local pub on food and drinks.

They could even learn something from us if they came and spoke to us. We could have given them some real advice on how to reduce environmental damage by stopping the high speed boy racers on the coastal road, stopping them throwing rubbish from their cars. Potentially there is a chance that someone will lose their life due to the speeding on the front. There were a number of joggers and an occasional cyclist in the area last night.

 

[GJH]

Reading Broken Link Removed on the Britstops thread got me thinking.

Would there be any insurance issues when somebody camps in contravention of a legal order?

 

[Thefirstbritsbrother]

Scarborough Council forced to re consult on Motorhome ban.
http://nyenquirer.uk/council-forced-reconsult-motorhomes-ban/

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[pappajohn]

Scarborough Council forced to re consult on Motorhome ban.
http://nyenquirer.uk/council-forced-reconsult-motorhomes-ban/

And do you really think that will change things in any way, shape or form.

Their mind is made up and they will find a way to enforce it regardless.
The national motorhome organisation was formed in April this year by the same Andy Strangeway who is objecting to the way the council instigated the ban.
It is nothing more than a vehicle for him to use as a 'motorhome club' to make his point appear more professional and realistic.

The 'organisation' has no official membership, no constitution and no hope of winning the battle.

I live in Scarborough, i know what the council are capable of.

 

[GJH]

Scarborough Council forced to re consult on Motorhome ban.
http://nyenquirer.uk/council-forced-reconsult-motorhomes-ban/

This is a perfect example of the misleading publicity put out by Strangeway.

The majority of the article (down to "Another case of council maladministration!") refers to events in 2012 and the restrictions on motorhomes in off street car parks put in place by Scarborough Borough Council.

The rest of the article concerns the separate measures being taken by North Yorkshire County Council in relation to on street parking (see Broken Link Removed). In no way does it confirm "the illegality of the process" undertaken by SBC, which was perfectly legal and certainly not maladministration.

 

[kcy]

We all know where it is but with the greatest respect to the likes of Papajohn who lives there, why would anyone want to go there .

We looked all over Europe, literally, and decided to move to this area two years ago and no regrets what so ever. The U.S was ruled out, couldn't afford Obama care!

 

[terryandelaine]

I haven't read in the Scarborough paper or on here anything about the amount of money SBC have spent putting up restriction signs. I was very surprised on a recent walk to see just how many posts and signs had been erected along the old, disused road at Cayton Bay. Signs state no motor caravans 11pm-7am. Are they also paying for traffic enforcement officers to work between 11pm and 7am, the overtime bill must be horrendous!

 

[jezport]

I think it Was Andy Strangeways repeated questions and emails to SBC that made them realize that he wasnt going to let them get away with not following all the procedures to the letter of the law that have let to the postponement of a permanent traffic order.

For that I say Thanks!

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[jezport]

I haven't read in the Scarborough paper or on here anything about the amount of money SBC have spent putting up restriction signs. I was very surprised on a recent walk to see just how many posts and signs had been erected along the old, disused road at Cayton Bay. Signs state no motor caravans 11pm-7am. Are they also paying for traffic enforcement officers to work between 11pm and 7am, the overtime bill must be horrendous!

I think it may be worth Andy submitting another FOI request.
Then we would know.

What we will never know is how much trade Scarborough is losing from motorhomers. But they lost the money I would have spent there over 4 weekends this year including last weekend. We now use the St Annes swimming pool car park and pay the £21.00 for 3 nights, Its a lot nicer than Scarborough and worth the extra travelling. We enjoyed meals at the Toby and went to the Cinema and went shopping. Scarborough Nil, St Annes around £400

 

[tambo]

Been in Scarborough twice


I forgot how bad it was the first time

 

[GJH]

How many times do the reasons for SBC rejecting use of car parks for "aires" have to be pointed out before the message gets through? In 2012 there was a general willingness of Scarborough Council officers and members to allow such use but the need for planning consent identified long standing policies which had been used to deny permission for caravan sites to private applicants. If the council had treated itself differently then it is highly likely that actions for maladministration would have been taken against the council and individuals, both through the Local Government Ombudsman Service and the court. The consequences would have been sanctions against individuals plus costs which would have had to be funded by Scarborough council tax payers.

In those circumstances the council had no choice but to decide as it did and no amount of extra FoI requests, demonstrations or other action is going to change that.

Quite apart from that, the current action regarding on street parking areas is being undertaken by North Yorkshire County Council so any approach to SBC about the matter is a waste of time.

 

[jezport]

It's amazing. Fylde council managed to do it. They don't need planning permission to allow motorhomes to park overnight. If they made a motorhome only area they would need planning. I discussed this with a councillor at Fylde in great detail.

It's quite simple, SBC don't want us.

 

[GJH]

It's amazing. Fylde council managed to do it. They don't need planning permission to allow motorhomes to park overnight. If they made a motorhome only area they would need planning. I discussed this with a councillor at Fylde in great detail.

It's quite simple, SBC don't want us.

No, it's comparing apples and oranges. Both councils have to take account of the historical establishment of the car parks concerned.

Fylde Council have looked at the planning issue for St Annes Swimming Pool Car Park and concluded that the existing planning consent includes use of the car park for overnighting already. According to Fylde Council's own report "Further work highlighted that if waste water/clean water facilities are located on the car park this would require a change of use planning application and caravan licensing application.".

The situation at Scarborough is different in that their similar investigation established that their car parks do not include use for overnighting and, indeed, there is a specific policy against allowing caravan sites within the areas concerned.

Whether we (and those Scarborough members/officers who were in favour of overnighting in car parks) like it or not, that is the legal position and that is what the council had to work within. No amount of complaining about not being wanted will change that legal position.

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[pappajohn]

I haven't read in the Scarborough paper or on here anything about the amount of money SBC have spent putting up restriction signs. I was very surprised on a recent walk to see just how many posts and signs had been erected along the old, disused road at Cayton Bay. Signs state no motor caravans 11pm-7am. Are they also paying for traffic enforcement officers to work between 11pm and 7am, the overtime bill must be horrendous!

Since SBC took over traffic and parking enforcement from north yorks police some years ago, the enforcement officers have been employed 24/7.....though i have yet to see one in the early morning hours.

It isnt just since the motorhome restrictions were applied.