Sacrifices needed to full time in a 6 metre van?

[TonyC123]

Table is easily sorted. A lot of fulltimers remove the fixed table and use a folding table instead. I’ve done this in every van I’ve had - it makes it an awful lot easier to move around the van. I use a Gopak table which is sturdy but lightweight and stores in the cab when not in use. It can also be taken outside and used with the camping chairs.

Thanks Maz, I've made a note of the gopack table as a solution, depending on what I end up with.
I noticed that in two of the vans I liked, the table also lowers to form part of the bed base, so if I take it out I lose the option to have guests stay over. It seems like everything is give and take with van layouts

 

[Langtoftlad]

Wildax water/waste tanks are external but lagged. They also come with heaters [but I'd only ever use them on EHU]. But I've never had to use them. Other solutions include inboard tanks but -ve is takes up storage. High end A Class have a double floor and tanks are often in-between.

Whatever van, can thoroughly recommend external silver screens, keeps you warm in winter, cool in summer.

You might need to rethink what you're going to take with you - scooters, generators weigh a lot... and are effectively a lot heavier if stored behind the rear axle.
What about an e-bike?

 

[OwnedbyCollies]

We don't full time but do camp all year round and have now retired so intend to spend a lot more time away (when we can!) There are 2 of us with 2 dogs. We prefer wild camping or aires and want to be completely self sufficient for power. Our set up (for all 3 vans) included 2 batteries, 100w solar (now 150w), B2B, Gaslow, and spare toilet cassette to extend off grid. We are on our 3rd van in 11 years. Uprated all 3 vans to get max payload.

Van number 1 was a Burstner with a french bed. Ford chassis. 6.7m (7.3m with bike rack loaded). We had it for 9 years. Pros - good bed, fab bathroom, good kitchen, 3 burner hob, oven, good payload. Cons - no garage, not fully winterised (underslung waste), dinette not very comfortable.

Van number 2 was a Hymercar PVC, transverse bed with good storage underneath. Fiat. Pros - 6m. Narrow and nippy. Cons - The bed was great but quite a climb. Bathroom was terrible - seemed a good idea at the time but couldn't pull up your pants with the door closed after using the loo. Shower was next to useless. 2 ring burner with size limits on the pans really limited cooking options (and I like to cook). No oven. With hindsight, it really wasn't the van for us! Motorhoming started to lose the magic and we didn't use it much.

Hence van number 3 - Knaus Sun Ti 650mf. 7m. It's the same layout as our first van - French bed layout but the bonus is a garage - not a full size garage but a nice compromise - fits 2 bikes and all the essentials. It has a double floor with onboard tanks and Alde heating (fabulous!). Great bathroom - proper toilet (!) with a swing sink wall to give a big shower. Good kitchen - 3 ring burner and a decent work surface. Oven. It has a dinette but the swivel seats are more comfortable and the table slides around to give more space to lounge on the bench seat.

Van number 3 is basically a newer version of van number 1 and feels very familiar but much more luxurious! 7m is very easy to drive (you will find a reversing camera useful). It's the width that can be a challenge at times, but the extra width is worth it in our opinion. We have got the motorhoming mojo back again and can't wait to get out and about again as soon as we can.

I hope that some of our thoughts and experiences are helpful in working out what's right for you. It's often a matter of head AND heart. Keep asking the questions and look at as many vans as you can - don't rule them out on length alone and, as previously highlighted, be aware of payload!

Good luck with your hunt!

 

[maz]

It seems like everything is give and take with van layouts

There you have it in a nutshell.

BTW, have you looked at the Burstner Ixeo 680G? If you can ‘stretch’ to a 7m van the layout ticks all your boxes.

 

[Rosemary1]

Don't get too tied up with the length. Width is more of a killer than length is.

The advantage of 6 metres and there is only one, is that you can fit into a car parking space without overhanging behind. Other than that length is not really the issue you might think it is and 8 Metres is easily manageable.
I made the mistake of buying a bus which was only 1 metre or so longer than my previous coachbuilt but was a lot wider. It was the width (amongst other things) that killed that idea for me and it only lasted 6 months.

An A class with drop down bed is a brilliant solution in that you can have the bed made up all the time and just need to drop it down. That is a fantastic compromise. Although I do have concerns around the big windscreen. If I was buying a coachbuilt I would personally be looking at the Hymer B584. It has the perfect layout for me as a solo. It has an office/work area. a lounge and a drop down bed alongside a separate shower. It ticks all the boxes for me personally.

We have an A class and really appreciate the space at the front and the overall light there

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[Riverbankannie]

Hi Jeff
I certainly haven't driven many larger vehicles, I will say that.
A few years ago I had a go in a van-based minibus my bothers hired for a trip. It was a one-off but I just didn't enjoy driving it the way I enjoy driving a car. I was ok going forwards and reasonably ok round corners, but as soon as I had to reverse it, I felt like I was going to hit everything and had no room to manouvre.
A big ambition is to reduce stress during my retirement, and so I want to find the smallest vehicle that will still be ok to live in, without compromising too much on comfort. I want to get into small villages and narrow streetsm and find parking spaces with minimal stress.
I'm OK with the idea of 7m as a compromise, but if I can live in a 6.5 or 6 metre I would prefer to do that. I'll try to arrange a few test drives in July and August (which will include a 7m van), so that will tell me a lot about whether I'm right about the size of van I'm comfortable driving.

When we bought our current van, we took one of the Caravan and Motorhome Club’s motorhome manoeuvring courses even though we are confident drivers. It was really good and we picked up tips and as well as the group (6 people) sessions off road playing around pylons, parallel parking and so on, you get to go out on your own on the road with the instructor.
We have always had quite large cars Volvo 940 estate for example, but the driving position is quite central between the wheels, whereas in the van, you are sitting over the front wheels and all the length is behind you so it does feel very different.

 

[nicholsong]

Tony(OP)

I can see your thought process developing nicely, e.g. the thought of a moped/scooter. Also the acceptance that 7m might not be a handicap.

Remember what I said about taking your time, that includes your thought process then narrowing your search down to models then finding th right one. Just think about pushing your departure date back a bit, to ensure you have time to get it right.

Read 'ownedbycollies' post (N0. 63) several times.

I already think I know what size, shape, you will end up with, but I am not buying it, so you need to be sure.

Keep at the thinking - you are not there yet, but will be in time.

Geoff

 

[TonyC123]

Wildax water/waste tanks are external but lagged. They also come with heaters [but I'd only ever use them on EHU]. But I've never had to use them. Other solutions include inboard tanks but -ve is takes up storage. High end A Class have a double floor and tanks are often in-between.

Whatever van, can thoroughly recommend external silver screens, keeps you warm in winter, cool in summer.

You might need to rethink what you're going to take with you - scooters, generators weigh a lot... and are effectively a lot heavier if stored behind the rear axle.
What about an e-bike?

Thanks Steve, and I do have a decent foldable ebike, so I'll give it go with that as a starter. Its good for about 15-20 miles I think. The major plus is that cycling the local area will get me pretty fit again, and at my age that can't be underestimated. On the downside, it may introduce lycra into my life, and my age I feel that is not something the general public should have to endure.
Perhaps a pair of stout woollen shorts would be the thing, if I could travel back to the 50s and find a pair.

The thing about the motorbike is range and speed. So lets say there's a drizzle on, and I need some more fuel for my infernal Jack Russell-powered generator machine (and there will be a patent out for that shortly, so you guys can forget about pirating my new technology).
On a moped I could be into the local village in a jiffy at a breathtaking 29mph, whereas on my ebike I'd be struggling to keep up 15mph, and if there's a hill it drops to 7mph.
The other worry is that if you go too far and battery flattens, they are really difficult to pedal because of the weight (I think mine's 35kg) and the fat tyres. But for the shorter trips of a few miles, they are brilliant, and well worth a go.
My cunning moped plan is more about the slightly longer distances. I'm noticing that the CLs and CSs that I'm looking at tend to be a few miles from the nearest town, sometimes 10 or 15 miles- and the round trip might be too much for the ebike.
I'm thinking that if there will probably be places I fancy visiting, but in some cases they will be a bit 'over-popular', with local roads congested, little parking available, etc etc.
So how handy would it be to have say a 125 (at about 100kg), that could nip into right into the centre of the local towns, would be ok at say 50mph on A roads, and you could really poke around the local area, down roads that would normally make you pause, etc?
Its a variation of the approach that some people take, where they have larger vans of 8 metres or more for the comfort and space, and because they are a bit restricted in mobility they also tow a small car or motorbikes- so they have much more freedom to gad about the area once they get the van parked and set up. You're probably right in that there wont be many 7 metre vans that will carry a 100kg bike on the rear axle, on top of everything else- especially since it would have to go on a custom-made rear rack of some sort. The cost and the difficulty of this idea are starting to mount, but its worth a thought at least.

 

[TonyC123]

There you have it in a nutshell.

BTW, have you looked at the Burstner Ixeo 680G? If you can ‘stretch’ to a 7m van the layout ticks all your boxes.

Thanks again Maz, and my God that is a lovely van, it has to be said. I just need it to be 15k cheaper. Can you have a word with those nice German chaps for me?
There's a 2018 model on autotrader at the moment that looks absolutely stunning:

Broken Link Removed

Having seen all of the advice and tips here, I'm more than happy to go up to 7 metres, and with a good enough reason I would even consider 7.5 metres. But if I can be comfortable in 7 metres or 6.5, I must admit I would prefer that.
I'm also starting to cotton on that a used van with the right features is a better bet than a shiny brand new one that has significant limitations on payload, winter protection etc.

 

[TonyC123]

Wildax water/waste tanks are external but lagged. They also come with heaters [but I'd only ever use them on EHU]. But I've never had to use them. Other solutions include inboard tanks but -ve is takes up storage. High end A Class have a double floor and tanks are often in-between.

Whatever van, can thoroughly recommend external silver screens, keeps you warm in winter, cool in summer.

You might need to rethink what you're going to take with you - scooters, generators weigh a lot... and are effectively a lot heavier if stored behind the rear axle.
What about an e-bike?

Thanks Steve, those external silver screens sound invaluable, I'll put them on my rapidly growing List of Many Important Things.
My thinking at the moment is to start off with the ebike since its foldable and can go on a rear rack or in a garage. But if there was an affordable and feasible way to carry a 50cc or a 125cc, that will be something I will look at in the future. I'm thinking if I park on a quiet CL somewhere in Scotland in October say, I will want to be out and about for a couple of trips on most days, and my ebike wont always have the range- but of course I can reserve my spot somehow and just take the van out for the day, so there are options even without a moped.
Still, if it could be done.....

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[maz]

Thanks again Maz, and my God that is a lovely van, it has to be said. I just need it to be 15k cheaper. Can you have a word with those nice German chaps for me?
There's a 2018 model on autotrader at the moment that looks absolutely stunning:

Broken Link Removed

Having seen all of the advice and tips here, I'm more than happy to go up to 7 metres, and with a good enough reason I would even consider 7.5 metres. But if I can be comfortable in 7 metres or 6.5, I must admit I would prefer that.
I'm also starting to cotton on that a used van with the right features is a better bet than a shiny brand new one that has significant limitations on payload, winter protection etc.

That one is on the light chassis. For fulltiming I’d recommend looking at ones on the heavy Maxi chassis.

 

[TonyC123]

We don't full time but do camp all year round and have now retired so intend to spend a lot more time away (when we can!) There are 2 of us with 2 dogs. We prefer wild camping or aires and want to be completely self sufficient for power. Our set up (for all 3 vans) included 2 batteries, 100w solar (now 150w), B2B, Gaslow, and spare toilet cassette to extend off grid. We are on our 3rd van in 11 years. Uprated all 3 vans to get max payload.

Van number 1 was a Burstner with a french bed. Ford chassis. 6.7m (7.3m with bike rack loaded). We had it for 9 years. Pros - good bed, fab bathroom, good kitchen, 3 burner hob, oven, good payload. Cons - no garage, not fully winterised (underslung waste), dinette not very comfortable.

Van number 2 was a Hymercar PVC, transverse bed with good storage underneath. Fiat. Pros - 6m. Narrow and nippy. Cons - The bed was great but quite a climb. Bathroom was terrible - seemed a good idea at the time but couldn't pull up your pants with the door closed after using the loo. Shower was next to useless. 2 ring burner with size limits on the pans really limited cooking options (and I like to cook). No oven. With hindsight, it really wasn't the van for us! Motorhoming started to lose the magic and we didn't use it much.

Hence van number 3 - Knaus Sun Ti 650mf. 7m. It's the same layout as our first van - French bed layout but the bonus is a garage - not a full size garage but a nice compromise - fits 2 bikes and all the essentials. It has a double floor with onboard tanks and Alde heating (fabulous!). Great bathroom - proper toilet (!) with a swing sink wall to give a big shower. Good kitchen - 3 ring burner and a decent work surface. Oven. It has a dinette but the swivel seats are more comfortable and the table slides around to give more space to lounge on the bench seat.

Van number 3 is basically a newer version of van number 1 and feels very familiar but much more luxurious! 7m is very easy to drive (you will find a reversing camera useful). It's the width that can be a challenge at times, but the extra width is worth it in our opinion. We have got the motorhoming mojo back again and can't wait to get out and about again as soon as we can.

I hope that some of our thoughts and experiences are helpful in working out what's right for you. It's often a matter of head AND heart. Keep asking the questions and look at as many vans as you can - don't rule them out on length alone and, as previously highlighted, be aware of payload!

Good luck with your hunt!

Dear Slaves of Collies, thanks a lot for this detailed info, it is very helpful.
Clearly for me, a reversing camera and lagging of any underslung waste tanks are essential- plus at least one extra battery and at least one solar panel- so realistically I have to add those costs to the overall budget if my chosen van doesnt have them built in.
I just hadn't realised that the wintering thing is not an optional thing for full timers- its compulsory. (Not winter, of course- even I know Winter is compulsory!)
Left to myself I dont cook anything that requires more than 1 pan or grill tray (if that). But I will need to at least make sure the important kitchen facilities are in place, in case a normal human being with the knowledge and skill to use them ever steps into the thing.

PS - hope those collies go easy on you folks, I hear they can be pretty demanding bosses

 

[TonyC123]

That one is on the light chassis. For fulltiming I’d recommend looking at ones on the heavy Maxi chassis.

Cheers Maz, but how do I determine what chassis it has? They dont say in this ad, nor in many others I've looked at?

 

[TonyC123]

When we bought our current van, we took one of the Caravan and Motorhome Club’s motorhome manoeuvring courses even though we are confident drivers. It was really good and we picked up tips and as well as the group (6 people) sessions off road playing around pylons, parallel parking and so on, you get to go out on your own on the road with the instructor.
We have always had quite large cars Volvo 940 estate for example, but the driving position is quite central between the wheels, whereas in the van, you are sitting over the front wheels and all the length is behind you so it does feel very different.

Thanks Annie, I've always been one to shy away from courses like this, but if there are some really key tips that they can pass on to help reduce the stress and the risk of hitting something, I might give it a try.

 

[TonyC123]

Tony(OP)

I can see your thought process developing nicely, e.g. the thought of a moped/scooter. Also the acceptance that 7m might not be a handicap.

Remember what I said about taking your time, that includes your thought process then narrowing your search down to models then finding th right one. Just think about pushing your departure date back a bit, to ensure you have time to get it right.

Read 'ownedbycollies' post (N0. 63) several times.

I already think I know what size, shape, you will end up with, but I am not buying it, so you need to be sure.

Keep at the thinking - you are not there yet, but will be in time.

Geoff

Thanks for the heads up Geoff, I did go back and that post had more info that I first realised.
I think if the right can doesn't come along at the right price, I will indeed have to push the date back a bit, rather than buy something that has major shortfalls.
If I let the motorhome buyers fever get the better of me in August, I'll probably end up buying a peat-powered mobile caravan with pedals.
I can see that if I stick to 7 metres I'm not going to get every feature I would like to have, but I'm trying to work out which ones are do-able and affordable, and which can be let go.
I must say the help and advice here is absolutely first class, and newbies like myself are very lucky to have this forum to ask questions that would otherwise have us puzzling for weeks.

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[nicholsong]

Having seen all of the advice and tips here, I'm more than happy to go up to 7 metres, and with a good enough reason I would even consider 7.5 metres. But if I can be comfortable in 7 metres or 6.5, I must admit I would prefer that.
I'm also starting to cotton on that a used van with the right features is a better bet than a shiny brand new one that has significant limitations on payload, winter protection etc.

As I said above your listening and thinking is getting you to where you want to be.

Keep at it.

 

[maz]

Cheers Maz, but how do I determine what chassis it has? They dont say in this ad, nor in many others I've looked at?

The max weight quoted will usually tell you. On a heavy chassis the max weight quoted will generally be 4250kg or more. Also if you see a van ‘in the flesh’, the heavy chassis will have 16 inch wheels whereas the light chassis has 15 inch wheels. Having said that, I believe it is possible to have the 15 inch wheels changed to 16 inch on the light chassis but this is rarely done.

 

[Skez]

My other big thing is I love maximum interior daytime/lounge space, so I'm happy to give up on having a fixed bed and use a drop-down or a 'make up' bed instead (or even an overcab bed)- yes it will be a pain making up a bed (although a drop down is easy), but I'd rather have more lounge space, and I definitely don't want the stress of a driving a larger van.

Don't know what your budget is but something like this seems to meet your criteria. Great loung area, good storage for a PVC and excellent build quality.

<Broken link removed>

 

[Minxy]

The max weight quoted will usually tell you. On a heavy chassis the max weight quoted will generally be 4250kg or more. Also if you see a van ‘in the flesh’, the heavy chassis will have 16 inch wheels whereas the light chassis has 15 inch wheels. Having said that, I believe it is possible to have the 15 inch wheels changed to 16 inch on the light chassis but this is rarely done.

What is more often done is to change the 15" steel wheels for 16" alloys so it's not foolproof, the easiest way is usually to see if it has disc brakes all round as that only comes with the Maxi heavy chassis AFAIK.

 

[TonyC123]

Don't know what your budget is but something like this seems to meet your criteria. Great loung area, good storage for a PVC and excellent build quality.

<Broken link removed>

Thanks very much for taking the time to give me heads up on this, I hadn't even looked at any Murvi vans to be honest.
They look like real quality vans to be fair, but I have to say that after mulling over some of the ideas and suggestions on here, I'm moving more towards the idea of a coachbuilt or A class, mainly because of the extra width and space when full timing.
I'm going over to the dark side! (i.e. the side of decadence and luxury)

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[TonyC123]

What is more often done is to change the 15" steel wheels for 16" alloys so it's not foolproof, the easiest way is usually to see if it has disc brakes all round as that only comes with the Maxi heavy chassis AFAIK.

Could I just ask them?

Or are they all incorrigible liars and scoundrels, as I'm starting to think from reading various horror stories....
You sound as if you'd make a good motorhome inspector btw- I might have a job lined up for you in August!

 

[Coolcats]

Thanks Coolcats, and what a fantastic pair of characters those two are by the way!

no problem, I do follow their blogs and thought that as they give a realistic view of what they do and their compromises in a 6m van it could be a useful resource. Whatever you do hope you enjoy

 

[Minxy]

Garage - for full-timing having a garage will be extremely useful otherwise you might struggle to store larger items that you may want and also extra food stuff and other items that someone just going on holiday wouldn't necessarily want, not to mention a bike/scooter etc as you really don't want to leave them outside all year round as it won't do them any good at all.

Storage - if you can get a MH with a double floor it will be much more useful for storage and comfort without having to worry about freezing pipes etc as it will all run between the inner and outer floors and importantly allow you to spread items and thus the weight around much more easily so that it doesn't all end up on the rear axle in a garage.

Fixed bed - a garage gives you the advantage of a fixed bed too which, regardless of how easy it is to make up beds, it will soon become a chore to do it every single day - we treat our rear bed as an extra lounging space which is readily available without having to move stuff in order to have a slob/kip etc. It is also a useful dumping ground at times! Some are easier to get in/out of than others, in the past I've had removable steps/stool which can be used for other purposes too, ie outside to wash the van, or simply as a small table - we use ours as somewhere to stand a bowl when washing hair outside in nice weather. I'd avoid any of the 'wind-down' ceiling mounted beds (not to be confused with the type in an A-class which pivot down on arms/struts) ass people do have issues with the lifting/lowering mechanism and I'm not convinced they will last the test of time.

Lounge - this is pretty much a personal choice, some like big sofas to sprawl on others use the swivelled cab chairs, obviously though the larger the lounge the more length you need to accommodate the rest of the layout if you don't want to restrict it. Make sure you can easily watch TV etc though as some only have very high mounted ones and that IS a pain in the neck literally!

Table - fixed tables as a general rule can be removed and replaced with freestanding ones or ones on a removable pole so don't get overly concerned about that. If you do need to use a bed made up using the table it wouldn't be difficult to make a structure to use in place of it which could easily be stored when not in use, or even a lower 'coffee table' that could be used outside or as a full height table if you make it with folding/part removable legs - of course you can already buy height adjustable tables anyway so might not have to make anything anyway.

Fridge - this will be very important to you as a full-timer so get a MH with a 3-way one rather than the 'all electric' type that some converters are now fitting.

Hob - most will have at least 2 gas burners, a small oven/grill would probably be useful too and allow you to do other stuff such as pizzas, cook pies, grill food etc and whilst it's not high on my list generally I think as a full-timer I'd want one.

Washroom - if you like a daily shower then a separate cubicle is really a necessity otherwise you'll be continually drying it so you can use the loo, but make sure it is big enough for you to bend down when the screen is closed as many are very tight so if you drop the soap you'd be stuffed! Similarly check how comfortable/easy it is to use the loo (not literally!) as I know how you 'menfolk' like to spend lots of time in there.

Tanks - having the waste tank outside isn't a major issue but you really DO need an internal fresh water tank to be able to use it all year round without having to worry about something freezing up.

Gas - I'd recommend getting a refillable system because when it's cold you'll get through it at a pace of knots with your heating and it would prove extremely expensive to have exchange cylinders - although some MHs do come with diesel heating there aren't that many. Generally cylinders give more storage capacity than an underslung tank as the vehicle chassis, pipes etc restrict on what size tank can be mounted.

Age/Quality - I'd rather have a slightly older good quality MH than a newer one for the same price, the Itineo for example is a paired down version of the better quality model under a different brand name but part of the same stable - I believe Rapido own them now but can't remember if they did originally when it was launched.

 

[Minxy]

Could I just ask them?

Or are they all incorrigible liars and scoundrels, as I'm starting to think from reading various horror stories....

It's not that they are necessarily 'liars' as such and obviously not all dealers are deceptive, but it's more often that the simply don't know the info on the vehicles they sell and guess which is NEVER a good thing. Payload is one major issue though and you should NEVER EVER trust the stated figures from a manufacturer's brochure or what the dealer tells you unless they have take the exact vehicle you are buying to a weighbridge and given you the figures for overall weigh and individual axle weights along with exactly what was in it at the time (ie fuel, water etc).

You sound as if you'd make a good motorhome inspector btw- I might have a job lined up for you in August!

I'm more than happy to help ... we've had enough to know what to look out for most of the time ... especially payload issues and as I 'fettle' our MHs if there are any things that need sorting you can be I'll be the one to do it so the less I have to do the better it is for me.

We previously had a Globecar Campscout which I did a website about, it's was a PVC but some of the 'fettling' might be of interest to you.

Globecar Campscout Info

 

[nicholsong]

Minxy Girl's two posts above are more than excellent.

I agree with everything said.

Only one difference. We have a combined shower/toilet compartment with a curtain round the shower, which gives plenty of room for showering and keeps all the rest dry, and when drawn back has lots of room for towelling down one's back. So if a combined compartment is big enough there is no need for two, maybe cramped, ones.

One extra use for a made-up bed is that when one comes out of the S/market or clothes shopping one can just dump it all on the duvet and sort it out at the nightstop.

Well done 'Minxy Girl'

Tony if you look at the list of their MHs in their Avatar you can see they have experience, but now have a Carthago, equivalent of our Niesmann.

Geoff

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[Wissel]

Re the moped idea - we have recently added this.

I was thinking a 125 for the obvious speed advantage, but decided on a 50 for the following reasons:
1. Cheap to buy, insure and run
2. Only for "last mile" journeys. Just when it's easier/safer to park the van a bit further away.
3. Possibly won't be popular, but I don't feel the need to wear all the protective gear I'd want on a 125 or bigger bike. It doesn't go any faster than a pushbike and if Lycra is fine for that.... This means we don't need to carry all the gear.

Only had it a few weeks but use it most days and love it

 

[TonyC123]

Garage - for full-timing having a garage will be extremely useful otherwise you might struggle to store larger items that you may want and also extra food stuff and other items that someone just going on hohicle chassis, pipes etc restrict on what size tank can be mounted.

...

...

Age/Quality - I'd rather have a slightly older good quality MH than a newer one for the same price, the Itineo for example is a paired down version of the better quality model under a different brand name but part of the same stable - I believe Rapido own them now but can't remember if they did originally when it was launched.

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain all that stuff Mel, that's really useful to know.
When I first asked my question yesterday, I thought I knew exactly what I wanted but now I want the opposite! lol
Is this a Jedi mind trick? "that's not the motorhome you are looking for..."

But I think a big decision for me now is whether I need a small motorbike/moped, because it will affect the whole thing. I did a bit of reading on motorbike threads, and if I was looking at a bike weight of say 120kg, plus a 30kg rack, mounted say 1.5m behind the rear axle and with a wheelbase of say 4m, the actual extra weight on the rear axle is over 200kg, which would probably rule out some vans altogether, at least without suspension upgrades.
If I could fit a 120kg bike in a garage so it was say 0.5m from the rear axle and no rack was needed, the weight on the rear axle might be ok for some vans.
Its such a big decision to make- do I need a bike or not? Many people manage fine with pushbikes or ebikes by parking up say a mile or two out of town so its a nice short ride in.
I honestly don't know how important a motorbike will be to the sort of lifestyle I have in mind, so I need to make that decision first I think, and that will help guide the decision on what is a suitable van.
I don't want to feel as if I have to drive the van everywhere I go (like into a village 2 miles away for a bottle of milk), and its probably possible to find a good compromise on that issue, by driving the van to within a few miles and using the ebike for the last leg into town, or for short hops into a nearby village.
I think the motorbike is verging on more of lifestyle choice- you choose that because you enjoy doing a few miles exploring the country lanes, having a nose down narrow roads towards the beaches, or similar.
It feels like I could get by without a motorbike, but it would be nice to have if I was on a CL in nice weather and didnt fancy driving the van to a likely looking destination say 20 miles away.
Without realising it, I've come across one of those key questions that I need to give some thought to because it will affect what van go for. If its a motorbike, then its rear beds and a garage, and I have to put up with a smaller front lounge.
Here we go with the give and take again !
Who knew it was this hard?!

 

[TonyC123]

Re the moped idea - we have recently added this.

I was thinking a 125 for the obvious speed advantage, but decided on a 50 for the following reasons:
1. Cheap to buy, insure and run
2. Only for "last mile" journeys. Just when it's easier/safer to park the van a bit further away.
3. Possibly won't be popular, but I don't feel the need to wear all the protective gear I'd want on a 125 or bigger bike. It doesn't go any faster than a pushbike and if Lycra is fine for that.... This means we don't need to carry all the gear.

Only had it a few weeks but use it most days and love it
View attachment 394067
View attachment 394068

Thanks again Wissel, that looks the business.
It looks like the bike is mounted only about 1m or so from the axle, so its not adding too much load onto it. Plus a 50cc will be maybe 20kg lighter anyway than a 125cc, very generally speaking.
So did the sums work out ok in terms of the load on the rear axle- was it close?
I like the idea of a rack because it frees up up the main body of the van so I can choose whatever layout I want, but the racks dont look particularly cheap, and in a 7 metre van they would be mounted a fair way back from the rear axle, and would add a lot of load onto it.
I need to go do a maths and engineering degree for few years. I'll be right back

 

[Wissel]

Thanks again Wissel, that looks the business.
It looks like the bike is mounted only about 1m or so from the axle, so its not adding too much load onto it. Plus a 50cc will be maybe 20kg lighter anyway than a 125cc, very generally speaking.
So did the sums work out ok in terms of the load on the rear axle- was it close?
I like the idea of a rack because it frees up up the main body of the van so I can choose whatever layout I want, but the racks dont look particularly cheap, and in a 7 metre van they would be mounted a fair way back from the rear axle, and would add a lot of load onto it.
I need to go do a maths and engineering degree for few years. I'll be right back

The rack is a (modded) Watling Motorack which can carry up to 130kg:

Towbar Motorbike Carrier : Motorbike Rack from Watling Engineers UK

www.watling-towbars.co.uk

It's good value at £330 new and mounts to a tow-bar (I fitted a 150kg nose weight version from PF Jones).

I "should" still be well under weight wise, but not weighed the van since adding the rack. Upgrading the van to 3850kg is only a paper exercise though, so not worried.

I liked this rack as it can be permanently fitted and the rear doors can still be opened, plus a lot of people on this site have and rate the same. I bought mine secondhand and a little beat up. But with stripping, painting and a few tweaks it's exactly what we wanted.

 

[TonyC123]

Thanks again Wissel.
From my original short list everything has now been wiped off except maybe the Pegaso, and I have to start all over again after I've made a decision on how desirable a bike is going to be.
I know there will be times I want to visit some family members, and one of them lives in an area where I absolutely cannot park a nice MH overnight. Plus there will be occasional trips into my old work premises for a few months for some follow up stuff I need to do, and the odd trip to a shared office in Birmingham centre.
I cant make an expensive decision on a van that I want to keep for 10 years based on a short term obligation to visit my old workplace a few times- so I wont make that mistake- but it does give an interesting example nonetheless.
This is an example of the sort of thinking I'm trying to do, to decide whether or not I need a motorbike:
I could probably find a cheap CL within 20 miles or so of Birmingham, leave the van there, and ride a motorbike into town for the odd work trip- so that's one point for the motorbike option (assuming a bike is safe in a car park overnight).
The same would go for visiting my main office in Newcastle on the odd occasion- park in a CL out of town and ride in. The CLs are not planned with access to public transport in mind, so that's not going to work well as an option- it has to be under my own steam.
Also, when visiting one or two family members in very urban areas with little or no safe parking, it would again be handy if I could to park at a different house maybe 20-30 miles away (again with poor public transport links), and ride a motorbike for the final leg to my bother's house in the city.
So for that trip a motorbike would be great- even if it was safe, it would be very difficult near my brothers house to park a 7m plus van.
For the rest of my travels, I could manage without a motorbike, but I feel as if it would be a really nice option to have.
So I guess I'm leaning towards the bike option at the moment...

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