Reversed polarity

no problem

Been doing Continental travelling for the past 10 yrs now.
Didn't know about it then and am not in the least bit worried about it now.
However IF you are worried then buy the necessary kit!
 
[/B]
Gunner29 said:
Been doing Continental travelling for the past 10 yrs now.
Didn't know about it then and am not in the least bit worried about it now.
However IF you are worried then buy the necessary kit!
Click to expand...

agreed....if it worries you then it only costs a few quid for the lead and tester......and nobody will call you daft for using it.

its all down to personal choice :thumb:

as others have said....lack of an earth is far more important and theres nothing you can do about that !!
 
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mitzimad said:
oh yes there is lol
http://www.screwfix.com/p/earth-rod-3-8-4ft/28044
Click to expand...
Oh no there isnt !!!!

for an earth spike to work there must be an earth return path to the substation

if the hookup post has no form of earthing whatsoever, then there is no earth return path.

a properly installed earth will be connected at the post and the substation.

look at any overhead (pylon) power lines......there is no earth wire, as the earth is connected to the high voltage transformer at the substation.
 
pappajohn said:
Oh no there isnt !!!!

for an earth spike to work there must be an earth return path to the substation

if the hookup post has no form of earthing whatsoever, then there is no earth return path.

a properly installed earth will be connected at the post and the substation.

look at any overhead (pylon) power lines......there is no earth wire, as the earth is connected to the high voltage transformer at the substation.
Click to expand...

Don't know enough about electricity to dispute what you are saying but why do they sell earthing rods.Incidentally I have two because of slight tingles through chassis when washing the fiver on hook up without earth, I have never used them because I have always managed to find a post with earth since.

I was informed that this occured due to it being essential that the 240/110v transformer in the 5'er is earthed, don't know the technical reasons.

This incident caused me to discover that my tester does not show a lack of earth whilst showing reversed polarity, which I ignored then but always now correct in order to be able to check for an earth.

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matamoros said:
Don't know enough about electricity to dispute what you are saying but why do they sell earthing rods.Incidentally I have two because of slight tingles through chassis when washing the fiver on hook up without earth, I have never used them because I have always managed to find a post with earth since.

I was informed that this occured due to it being essential that the 240/110v transformer in the 5'er is earthed, don't know the technical reasons.

This incident caused me to discover that my tester does not show a lack of earth whilst showing reversed polarity, which I ignored then but always now correct in order to be able to check for an earth.
Click to expand...
there are various methods to earth a supply...one being the TT system were there is no earth conductor supplied by the electric generating company.

the system is earthed at the companies transformer and relies on the ground to return the current if there's a fault in the house.

as there is no earth cable coming into the fuse box it needs an earth spike connected to the fuse box to take fault current into the ground and thus back to the transformer.

in a TN-S system the company provide an earth cable from the power transformer to the fuse box in the house and all electrical protective circuits are connected to this earth wire...negating the need for an earth spike.

the problem is....which system has been used in a French hookup post ?

if there are overhead cables theres a very good chance it is a TT system

if it is a TT system then an earth spike will work...but how do you know its a TT for sure.....or just an installer who couldn't be bothered to fit the earth in a TN-S system
 
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Fermenter said:
Has anyone tried this. Seems very expensive for what it is.
Click to expand...
agreed.....a pair of basic LED's, which by their nature only work one way round, a two way, two pole switch and a plastic box.....£5 for the lot.

a bit of cross wiring so switched one way will light one LED and the other way will light the other one.
 
hilldweller said:
It's a problem with these forums.

If you are doing a job, do it properly. A tester plug costs nothing, a cross over adaptor costs nearly nothing. So buy them both and use them. Just one minute of your time when you hook up and you'll know that you are safee.
Click to expand...

Brian
This is the best bit of sense (with exceptions of PapaJohn explaining the electrics of crossed polarity ) I have read on this thread so far to the person asking the question..
So for the little cost buy a testing plug for crossed polarity and EARTH....and buy /make up a short set of cables crossing over the brown and blue on one plug....(or socket only)meaning brown goes to neutral...blue goes to live...and mark the set of crossed polarity cables....to identify:thumb:...all for so little money
All the answers to your thread have been correct ....but confusing.
Then it is up to you if you uase them two items or not.......I do....in France you will find nearly 50% of Electric hook up will be crossed polarity....even on the electric post one side may be correct the other side crossed polarity.

There are other advatages having a test plug with you....a/ to make sure there is a EARTH on the ehup.....b/ to make sure if there is power at the socket you are connecting to...before you start dismantling the motorhome....c/ . there may also be a...........oooops I better keep that bit of info to myself:RollEyes::Wink::Wink:

Mel
 
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We have just come back from our first trip abroad and prior to leaving we bought a polarity tester and 2 continental adaptor leads. My husband rewired one and marked it to show it was reverse polarity. Of the 6 sites we stayed at 2 had reverse polarity and a 3rd site showed no earth and I got a small electric shock. We were then able to move to another pitch that was earthed and problem solved. For the very small financial outlay we had complete peace of mind and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend carrying these basic items. :thumb:

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pappajohn said:
there are various methods to earth a supply...one being the TT system were there is no earth conductor supplied by the electric generating company.

the system is earthed at the companies transformer and relies on the ground to return the current if there's a fault in the house.

as there is no earth cable coming into the fuse box it needs an earth spike connected to the fuse box to take fault current into the ground and thus back to the transformer.

in a TN-S system the company provide an earth cable from the power transformer to the fuse box in the house and all electrical protective circuits are connected to this earth wire...negating the need for an earth spike.

the problem is....which system has been used in a French hookup post ?

if there are overhead cables theres a very good chance it is a TT system

if it is a TT system then an earth spike will work...but how do you know its a TT for sure.....or just an installer who couldn't be bothered to fit the earth in a TN-S system
Click to expand...

That clears that one up then !! :Rofl1::Rofl1:

Think I'll forget the earth spikes and carry on looking for an earthed connecting post. :thumb:
 
gasman2008 said:
If you have reverse polarity, it means that the electricity is connected the wrong way round. This means that the MCB is on the neutral and not the live wire,[HI] removing the protection.[/HI] I always check the polarity and have a converter in the van. Better to be safe than etc.etc.
Click to expand...

An MCB is an overload device.. a modern day fuse.. If the neutral and live are reversed it will still operate as designed.

as explained eloquently by papajohn with his light bulb example, reversed line and neutral will not affect the operation of any appliance nor compromise the operation of an MCB or an ELCB .. ( Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker )

As mentioned.. An earth check is far more important .. in fact I would say it is vital. If there is no earth that will compromise the operation of the ELCB .. but not an MCB

Better to be safe than sorry ? . YES.. if you make a reverse polarity check every time you hook up you will also be checking for an earth..
 
hilldweller said:
It's a problem with these forums.

If you are doing a job, do it properly. A tester plug costs nothing, a cross over adaptor costs nearly nothing. So buy them both and use them. Just one minute of your time when you hook up and you'll know that you are safe.
Click to expand...

Hi Hilldweller interested in your comment about buying a cross over adaptor do you have an example please? Thanks
 
Fermenter said:
Hi Hilldweller interested in your comment about buying a cross over adaptor do you have an example please? Thanks
Click to expand...

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I just bought the plug and socket and made one up with a foot of mains flex, you connect E to E then L to N and N to L. Mark it carefully CROSSOVER. If you detect wrong polarity just put this in-line outside. Fit at the post end then you automatically handle dead cables.

E---------------------E
L---------------------N
N--------------------L
 
Like habitation checks, gas attacks and payloads I know/knew nothing about reverse polarity until I joined this forum.

Mind you I don't have a modern van with its pile of unnecessary electrical nonsense which is only of real use to the smooth talking, suit and tied salesman who has never switched a fridge on never mind needing an "automatic" energy selector.

If you understand enough to want to open up an electrical device to fix it you will know about the danger of reverse polarity. If you don't I recommend getting someone in to do the repairs.

I plug in and if the lights go on all is good.

I refrain at all times from putting my fingers into electrical sockets especially if my grey water tank tap is closed.

You can buy special toilet paper for motorhomes. It is expensive and completely and totally unnecessary.

Just because things are for sale doesn't mean they are needed.

Having said that if buying something gives you or your family "peace of mind" then it is not a waste of money...

JJ.:Cool:

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Reverse polarity

It does matter if your 3-pin appliance goes faulty - and the wife gets a shock from the kettle!
I use a polarity tester and system reverser.
If you have a reversal on a 2-pin French plug simply reverse the plug - if 3-pin you need to make up a short reverse polarity lead which will fit between lead and van.
Don't risk it - be safe.
 
ScotJimland said:
An MCB is an overload device.. a modern day fuse.. If the neutral and live are reversed it will still operate as designed.

as explained eloquently by papajohn with his light bulb example, reversed line and neutral will not affect the operation of any appliance nor compromise the operation of an MCB or an ELCB .. ( Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker )
Click to expand...

Actually, it does affect the operation of the MCB. It will still provide overload protection, but can no longer provide short circuit protection, unless you happen to have a poorly earthed neutral and a good earth loop impedance.

However, it is very likely that suitable short circuit protection is provided by the campsite system which will have the MCB in the live path. Short circuit protection would also be provided by an RCD/RCBO, provided that there is any earthing at all. If there isnt, then you effectively have an IT system which provides protection by using high impedence isolation (i.e. you can touch the live without a dangerous current, as there is no return channel). This system is actually used in bathroom razor points, as properly implemented, it is safer than earthing.

It is unlikely that the lack of earth will cause a problem. Most appliances stopped relying upon earthing for protection many decades ago. Double insulation protection is more effective and common, especially for consumer appliances.

Ensure that you have an RCD and that all appliances you use have the double insulation symbol (a square within a square) marked and you don't need to worry about earths at all.
 
Electricity Safety

Hi Again

Yes the descriptions are good, but I re-iterate - Is it worth the risk?

I have taken statements of doubt from the description:

1 - unless you happen to have a poorly earthed neutral and a good earth loop impedance.
2 - It is unlikely that the lack of earth will cause a problem.
3 - can no longer provide short circuit protection

I don't want to be a Jonah but safety is important. I had a major incident while in Europe a while back:
My wike was using an almost new Halogen Oven when there was a bang and it blew my breaker Circuit board even though I was connected to the Camp Supply!
 
hilldweller said:
Link Removed

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I just bought the plug and socket and made one up with a foot of mains flex, you connect E to E then L to N and N to L. Mark it carefully CROSSOVER. If you detect wrong polarity just put this in-line outside. Fit at the post end then you automatically handle dead cables.

E---------------------E
L---------------------N
N--------------------L
Click to expand...

Thanks Brian :thumb:
 
one reason why the French arent too bothered about reverse polarity.....

they use double pole switches which basically means when a switch is turned off both the live AND neutral wires are dead
our system is single pole swiched so only the live wire is switched off leaving the neutral still connected but effectively dead....it CAN be live, but thats too complicated to go into here.

plug our hookup lead into a reversed post and that neutral wire becomes the live and our live wire becomes the neutral and is now dead.

the French use double pole MCB's in the fuse/consumerbox so if there is an overload fault both live AND neutral are disconnected...
perfectly safe..

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