Rethink on Lithium upgrade, I bought an Ecoflow Delta 2

[Fatboy]

I posted a few threads on here asking Lithium advice. My dilemma is my 2022 Kontiki came with 2 Yuasa 100a/h leads, I have 2 x 100w solar and use a 2000w inverter for a 800w hairdrier. The set-up is OK, but in winter I reckon 3 days off grid and I'm struggling. So my first plan was more solar, B2B and Lithium upgrade so depending upon battery size I'm north of £1500 maybe £2000. Anyway had a rethink, and I've purchase (Not delivered yet) an Ecoflow Delta 2, this is probably around 70a/h of lithium after losses, my thought being when my leads deplete to around 60-65% SOC I'll be able to top them up hopefully fully charged. The eco can be recharged in just over an hour, weighs only 11kg so off to find a pub with permission from the landlord and a tip of course recharge, and I am good for another 3 days..... that's the plan, any thoughts, ill do this till I eventually retire my leads and then upgrade

 

[Peregrinator]

I posted a few threads on here asking Lithium advice. My dilemma is my 2022 Kontiki came with 2 Yuasa 100a/h leads, I have 2 x 100w solar and use a 2000w inverter for a 800w hairdrier. The set-up is OK, but in winter I reckon 3 days off grid and I'm struggling. So my first plan was more solar, B2B and Lithium upgrade so depending upon battery size I'm north of £1500 maybe £2000. Anyway had a rethink, and I've purchase (Not delivered yet) an Ecoflow Delta 2, this is probably around 70a/h of lithium after losses, my thought being when my leads deplete to around 60-65% SOC I'll be able to top them up hopefully fully charged. The eco can be recharged in just over an hour, weighs only 11kg so off to find a pub with permission from the landlord and a tip of course recharge, and I am good for another 3 days..... that's the plan, any thoughts, ill do this till I eventually retire my leads and then upgrade

"Ecoflow" that's a lot of money for what you get back, which is not a lot, You should have used that money to do the Lithium upgrade, for what you paid and an extra £100 on top you could have got 12V 200Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery w/ Bluetooth plus solar charge Controller, then when you were ready to upgrade, just another 200Ah Lithium plus higher wattage solar panels. but I suppose you will get other use's out of the Ecoflow, best of luck to you.

 

[Lenny HB]

Took this screenshot from the Eco Flow app.Battery chemistry is at the bottom.

View attachment 712852

That says LFP not LiFeP04, but it does say it on their Desktop site.

 

[BobJayne]

 

[pjay]

Intereresting thread Fatboy thanks for posting.

Shame you haven't got a utube vanlife channel, they would have bunged you one for free

Pete

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Fatboy]

Intereresting thread Fatboy thanks for posting.

Shame you haven't got a utube vanlife channel, they would have bunged you one for free

Pete

Oh god the brand ambassador brigade hehehe

 

[Two on Tour]

That says LFP not LiFeP04, but it does say it on their Desktop site.

LFP (lithium ferro-phosphate), is LifePo4 by a different name.

 

[Peregrinator]

That’s providing you know what you are doing regarding fitting everything yourself

You try getting a price from a firm for fitting x1 lithium and the extra stuff required. The only 4 in the quote will be the second digit.

Its not hard at all if your charger/controller has a Lithium setting, first set charger to Lithium, second replace the lead battery with the Lithium battery, same space, same cables, replace solar charger with MPPT Charge Controller, again same cables, job done.

 

[Pausim]

That says LFP not LiFeP04, but it does say it on their Desktop site.

It seems the manufacturers are now shortening LiFePO4 to LFP. They also seem to be using Li-ion as a generic term for non LFP cells, in reality all lithium cells use Li-ion technology. They seem to have adopted “ion” as if it was some new technology but as far as I can tell that is pretty much what all electricity relies on. Beware sales talk, they are often bigging up something they don’t understand.

 

[Peregrinator]

It seems the manufacturers are now shortening LiFePO4 to LFP. They also seem to be using Li-ion as a generic term for non LFP cells, in reality all lithium cells use Li-ion technology. They seem to have adopted “ion” as if it was some new technology but as far as I can tell that is pretty much what all electricity relies on. Beware sales talk, they are often bigging up something they don’t understand.

LiFePO4 batteries are a type of lithium ion (Li-Ion) rechargeable battery (the word "type of lithium ion" is important). Their benefits over the more traditional cobalt-based Li-Ion batteries are increased power output, faster charging, reduced weight and longer lifetime and not to fail to mention the BIG one, less of a fire risk.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Langtoftlad]

but I suppose you will get other use's out of the Ecoflow,

Indeed... perhaps to power your domestic phone in the event of an extended powercut...
Broken Link Removed

 

[Fatboy]

"Ecoflow" that's a lot of money for what you get back, which is not a lot, You should have used that money to do the Lithium upgrade, for what you paid and an extra £100 on top you could have got 12V 200Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery w/ Bluetooth plus solar charge Controller, then when you were ready to upgrade, just another 200Ah Lithium plus higher wattage solar panels. but I suppose you will get other use's out of the Ecoflow, best of luck to you.

As I mentioned in my post, yes lithium would be more cost effective however my charger and lack of B2B would need to be upgraded and I would be junking two brand new wet batteries then the cost is similar if not more. This purchase is a compromise, whether its right it remains to be seen but if by chance you find yourself with depleted lithium (granted its a lot of power) I have no choice but to go for a very long drive OR find a site to plug in. This is like carrying a jerry can in your petrol car, it extends the range rather than fitting a bigger fuel tank if that makes sense.... not for everyone but hopefully it will work as anticipated.

 

[Langtoftlad]

and I am good for another 3 days..... that's the plan,

Its bought now so ill update this when I see if it works as planned

Sounds good to me.
You've identified your need
You've come up with a [temporary] solution within a budget
Even if [when] you do the upgrade, it might even have come down in price further - and you might still have a use for the Ecoflow.

I'm always cautious when I read posts about what is the best way to upgrade a system - sometimes keeping is simple is best...

 

[BobJayne]

As I mentioned in my post, yes lithium would be more cost effective however my charger and lack of B2B would need to be upgraded and I would be junking two brand new wet batteries then the cost is similar if not more.

I've read that you can use the normal mains charger so long as your solar charger is mppt set to a lithium profile to give a higher charging voltage when on solar, anyone confirm?

 

[Fatboy]

Sounds good to me.
You've identified your need
You've come up with a [temporary] solution within a budget
Even if [when] you do the upgrade, it might even have come down in price further - and you might still have a use for the Ecoflow.

I'm always cautious when I read posts about what is the best way to upgrade a system - sometimes keeping is simple is best...

I guess another thing that made this the preferred option was I got 12 month interest free credit on the Eco, and it has a 5yr warranty

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

I've read that you can use the normal mains charger so long as your solar charger is mppt set to a lithium profile to give a higher charging voltage when on solar, anyone confirm?

I use a normal CBE mains charger on a lead acid setting that undercharges my LiFePO4 battery. When I am on an EHU I don’t care if it is undercharged, it only needs to be full when I pull up somewhere without EHU. My B2B looks after that.

 

[Tonks]

Intereresting thread Fatboy thanks for posting.

Shame you haven't got a utube vanlife channel, they would have bunged you one for free

Pete

I bought my River Pro after seeing reviews on YouTube from people who had bought their own rather than having them 'donated'.

 

[jongood]

Its not hard at all if your charger/controller has a Lithium setting, first set charger to Lithium, second replace the lead battery with the Lithium battery, same space, same cables, replace solar charger with MPPT Charge Controller, again same cables, job done.

I'm pretty sure CazPaul wont have a lithium setting

 

[CazPaul]

I'm pretty sure CazPaul wont have a lithium setting

Hey how do you know

It all works you can use the 12volt without hook up never run out yet. Hoping these gels will get me to 20 years, 2 to go.

 

[Peregrinator]

As I mentioned in my post, yes lithium would be more cost effective however my charger and lack of B2B would need to be upgraded and I would be junking two brand new wet batteries then the cost is similar if not more. This purchase is a compromise, whether its right it remains to be seen but if by chance you find yourself with depleted lithium (granted its a lot of power) I have no choice but to go for a very long drive OR find a site to plug in. This is like carrying a jerry can in your petrol car, it extends the range rather than fitting a bigger fuel tank if that makes sense.... not for everyone but hopefully it will work as anticipated.

Because your MH is almost new, you should already have B2B installed? also your changer should have a switch over for Lithium, don't you have ether?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Fatboy]

Because your MH is almost new, you should already have B2B installed? also your changer should have a switch over for Lithium, don't you have ether?

When you push Sargent on this it’s a great area, I have a Victron shunt installed so at best I get 10a often less soo would say that a split charge relay not a B2B. The charger has a lithium profile but it doesn’t put the peak amps out required for the bulk charge. I would need to change the charger to a Ctek or Victron to ensure a full charge on hookup

 

[Robb]

When you push Sargent on this it’s a great area, I have a Victron shunt installed so at best I get 10a often less soo would say that a split charge relay not a B2B. The charger has a lithium profile but it doesn’t put the peak amps out required for the bulk charge. I would need to change the charger to a Ctek or Victron to ensure a full charge on hookup

Interesting push on Sargent, did that include the 240 volt charger profile? The new Swift manual says that the charger is good for Lithium? I don't need to use it but it would be nice to know that I could if required.

 

[Peregrinator]

When you push Sargent on this it’s a great area, I have a Victron shunt installed so at best I get 10a often less soo would say that a split charge relay not a B2B. The charger has a lithium profile but it doesn’t put the peak amps out required for the bulk charge. I would need to change the charger to a Ctek or Victron to ensure a full charge on hookup

So you do have the kit, You can put in solar to solar charger £40 to £110 direct to the Battery, but still keep the cables connected from your old system, you install a switch to switch it off when driving, it's what I have done, so my old system charges my batteries when on EHU and when driving, solar charges when parked and no EHU, my old system has Lithium profile, but only 20A, but the solar charger is a lot higher, so now never need EHU.

 

[Fatboy]

Interesting push on Sargent, did that include the 240 volt charger profile? The new Swift manual says that the charger is good for Lithium? I don't need to use it but it would be nice to know that I could if required.

Hi Nidge,


Your van is fitted with the PX300 charger, an intelligent charger which automatically adjusts the voltages and it does not have a Lithium ION battery setting. Installing a lithium ion battery in your van is strictly dependent on the type of battery that your are fitting as lithium ions are fitted with various BMS units ( battery management systems) and depending on the amperage the BMS requires whenever the battery is completely discharged, you might need a dc to dc charger or not. Please forward the document attached to this email to the battery manufacturer and they should be able to advise regarding the compatibility of this charger and their battery. I hope this helps.

that was from Sargent technical

 

[Reallyretired]

As a user of ecoflow I find it very cost effective for my purposes. Going down the route of a lithium battery would entail not just the battery but also an inverter. the charger and solar controller would also need replacing as neither has a lithium profile. Very expensive just to run a hairdryer or microwave for a few minutes. My ecoflow delta mini was £800 which is expensive too but has other uses.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bigtwin]

does not have a Lithium ION battery setting. Installing a lithium ion battery in your van is strictly dependent on the type of battery that your are fitting as lithium ions are fitted with various BMS units

But the relevant battery technology is lithium IRON, as in LiFePo4, is it not?

Ian

 

[GMLS]

Very true of most of them but there are a few exceptions. Bluetti have had some LiFePO4 models in their range since 2021 and Ecoflow have recently launched their Ecoflow River series with LFP batteries. When I bought one in 2021 for home use I ruled out all the models without LFP which limited me to only a few Bluetti models. I suspect many of the other manufacturers will be pushing hard to go over to LFP asap.

More and more have the latest cells inc the Anker 767 I recently bought which clinched the deal.Well impressed with it and good length of warranty.I have plenty of uses for it which supports the investment.

 

[GMLS]

Oh god the brand ambassador brigade hehehe

In tight bright lycra leggings

 

[The Wino]

£1500 to £2000 for lipo?

300ah now about £900.

I am no battery expert but the portable power pack is only 70ah you say? So for £900 you could have 12 days based on your figures.

That sounds a lot more attractive as an option there can't be many people spending more than 12 days without a hook-up and no lugging around the power pack. My solution is no hair dryer coffee machine etc!

 

[The Wino]

More and more have the latest cells inc the Anker 767 I recently bought which clinched the deal.Well impressed with it and good length of warranty.I have plenty of uses for it which supports the investment.

It's spending not investment! The only people who call spending investment are politicians!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

I would need to change the charger to a Ctek or Victron to ensure a full charge on hookup

Why do you need a full charge when on hook up? Bit of a pet topic of mine but people seem to be spending lots of money making sure their new LiFePO4 battery is fully charged on EHU. This is old lead acid thinking. Unlike lead acid (especially AGM) you will not damage a LiFePO4 battery by undercharging it, in fact they are better left at 80%. I would spend the money on a good B2B so that you have a full battery when you don’t have EHU.