Research for university: Interested in your views and opinions,

[smintyminty]

Good day,
Im a product design student at Bangor uni and I'm looking into what people would want, love and hate about camper homes, self built or pre-made etc.
Are there things that bug you?
are there things you couldn't live without?
do you wish there was something for ..
what function do you hate or love
what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
what accidents happen the most

Absolutely any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Sara

 

[SpeedyDux]

Just to pick on one question that nobody really answered:

What accidents happen the most?

Best ask insurers. My recollection is that the MH insurance companies have said that the majority of claims are caused by reversing into an immoveable hard object, or damage from a low branch or other obstruction to the front of the van.

Reversing cameras and rear parking sensors ought to be standard, not costly optional extras. The low branch hazard is a whole different kettle of poisson.

 

[bigtwin]

Oh, do I, please take a look at post #24.

Oops, missed that; you have my apology.

Ian

 

[Holly's mum]

Hi Sara smintyminty

Good luck with your project and research. Please don't be put off by some of the less helpful replies you might get, I see there are already plenty of helpful ones to offset them. Plus the very generous two month membership from Jim

If you use the search facility on here, you will find lots of threads with people asking similar questions, when they are looking for their first van/Motorhome and/or looking for certain features. That will give you a fair bit of material to work with.

As several people have already said, there are a lot of variables and peoples choices/needs are all different and also change as they get older. For many people you make a compromise of something that you forego in order to have something that you can't live without.

Here are my answers to your questions:

Are there things that bug you? - On our Motorhome, no but as others have said the cost of sites in the UK in particular are too high and although there are more aire's now opening up here, the UK is not as Motorhome friendly as the continent and places like New Zealand.

are there things you couldn't live without? - toilet, shower, heating, hot water, fridge, hob, oven, decent seating area. Also, I prefer to have some hanging space for clothes too.

do you wish there was something for .. I can't think of anything at the moment

what function do you hate or love - I love our full length seating in the lounge area and I also love our automatic levellers (it would be nice if they came as standard on all vans)

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary - biggest problem on the road is narrow and badly maintained roads and other drivers who think that because you are driving a Motorhome you will be going slowly and will hold them up, so they just have to get in front of you. When stationary, if using an aire, you can get problems with locals who think it is fun to drive really fast, close to your Motorhome and make lots of noise but fortunately this is not too common.

what accidents happen the most - I would think the most common accidents are hitting stationary objects, caused by a lack of full vision and possibly being distracted at the wrong time. It's also not unheard of for people to drive off with the electric hook-up cable still attached too.

I do agree with previous comments, that it seems the designers of Motorhomes have never used a Motorhome, as some of the things they do are ridiculous and not practical. Some of the things they change on newer versions of vans, seem to be changes just for the sake of making a change and are often not an improvement.

 

[BreweryDave]

I think I’m gonna start a thread asking your mother's maiden name, place of birth, and favourite colour.………….

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[Holly's mum]

I think I’m gonna start a thread asking your mother's maiden name, place of birth, and favourite colour.………….

How is that relevant or helpful?

 

[Revolvor]

smintyminty This might help in your research.

The Motorhome Buyers Guide

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[ctc]

A speed limiter. Out of all the gizmos mine has the combined cruise control and speed limiter is used most. And could someone suggest a better design for microswitched taps.

 

[Grianan]

Firstly welcome Sara and good luck with your project plus asking an actual user base.

Are there things that bug you?
We have one of the larger PVCs at 6.3m. This was to get a bed long enough for my OH.
The bug bears are ..

• Can’t read Speedo on Ducato base vehicle
• The pinch point in the middle of the van (kitchen/shower room) is hard for two adults to pass each other.
• I love the shower room in our Globecar Campscout but you cannot look straight in either mirror.
• Cupboard under fridge should have option for drawers for those of us who struggle with knees.
• I’d prefer option to replace dinette (which comes with 2 uncomfortable travel seats) with small comfier sofa and smaller table.
• Leg can’t come off table to allow for removal and easy storage/transportation.
• rattles (blinds I think)

Are there things you couldn't live without?

• High level fridge (but would prefer 3-way to electric only)
• toilet
• shower that uses middle corridor of van so is spacious (also lets you create 2 rooms, keep dog off bed, or create changing room)
• 2 ring hob
• hot water
• central heating ours is gas/electric but boiler has already broken once (with little use) and is hugely expensive to fix
• fixed long comfy bed
• huge ‘garage’ under the beds
• solar
• reversing camera - should come as standard
• Electronic step

What do I wish there for ..

• might look at diesel heating
• lithium batteries to stay longer off auto levellers

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
Height restrictions on town centre parking
Expand small (but growing) network of Aires in the UK

 

[Sandancers]

Sara is a design student, so to my mind she will gain qualifications by designing or improving stuff.

Now on our MK7 Transit the little display in the centre of the speed is an absolute pig to read in most light conditions, so if Sara could improve that she would be living up to her job titl.

But you are telling Sara that the cost of mainstream sites is a problem for you. Do you really think Sara or any design student could re-design those costs ?

And you are telling Sara that you hit your wall coming out of your drive, well I don't think she could change that for you, but probably a good sledgehammer could !

So maybe you are giving Sara answers which are not really what a design student might be looking for.

Looks like Jim was right, not many actually giving answer to questions that Sara has asked.

Are there things that bug you? - with our motorhome, nothing really, but in general as said, the cost of mainstream sites. We prefer the smaller quieter site in the UK. Happier touring abroad where there is for the most part a more welcoming culture towards motorhoming.

are there things you couldn't live without? - separate shower and loo (don't like wetrooms), big fridge/freezer, hob & oven.

do you wish there was something for - nothing that comes to mind.

what function do you hate or love - that we do not have a fixed island bed, and love the two full-length sofas to stretch out on.

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary - Google maps sometimes stupid shortcuts, and stationary we seem to be a magnet for the French wanting to park so close that you can barely open a window without banging it into their van.

what accidents happen the most - nothing major, although I have clobbered the wall coming out of our driveway.

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[BreweryDave]

How is that relevant or helpful?

Just something to bear in mind, as with all unsolicited requests from an unknown source

 

[Two on Tour]

So maybe you are giving Sara answers which are not really what a design student might be looking for.

She asked the questions to which I answer, so I will leave it up to her as to whether my answers were relevant to her questions rather than attempting to be a mind reader.

 

[Sandancers]

She asked the questions to which I answer, so I will leave it up to her as to whether my answers were relevant to her questions rather than attempting to be a mind reader.

Which is exactly what all the other people on this thread did, then you said "Looks like Jim was right, not many actually giving answer to questions that Sara has asked."

 

[Kannon Fodda]

To put this into context I have a shorter (5.4m long) Panel Van Conversion:

Are there things that bug you?
Designer of the van clearly was not an end user. Lot's of style over substance. It looks great in a show room but seems either as a day van to go out have your picnic and then come back, or they expected you to arrive on a campsite for a longer stay. I've made adaptations.
Pathetic sized leisure battery would barely last one night off grid if you used even half the lights provided and if a cloudy day so the small solar couldn't work would then take at least 5 hours driving to recharge. Lack of USB in habitation area. Have spent lot's of effort and money on upgrading this.
Microwave dangerously positioned at head level for lifting hot food and can't be used unless plugged in on a campsite.
Lightweight materials, especially panels, make vulnerable to wear and tear as fixings fail.

are there things you couldn't live without?
Toilet (often think I paid £50k for the luxury of the toilet, a serious upgrade from my tenting days).

do you wish there was something for ..
Prevent dangling feet when sitting in swivelled passenger seat. Cab is higher than floor of habitation area so with the seat also being raised there is a drop. I could just get a footstool, but a lot of time that would be in the way as I go in and out of the van. Almost needs to be some sort of retracting pop out thingy like you see on some reclining armchairs.

what function do you hate or love
Toilet - see above
Microwave - see above
DAB radio - reception can be very poor on the move

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
Visibility to side, especially oddly driver's side at junctions. Remis blind housings around doors / screen reduce size of glazing area. Compared to a car door the pillar is alongside eyeline and no window of rear passenger to peer through (in the van viewing to the nearside I can look back over shoulder and see through the sliding door window).
Height barriers on parking areas.
Driving position, swiveling seat raises it so eyeline is a bit too high for the top of windscreen and bulkhead behind drivers seat means it doesn't quite go back far enough. The handbrake is too low due to raised seat (there are adaptors that can be bought).

what accidents happen the most
Spilling hot food on the floor getting out of low oven since space to manoeuvre in the van is so tight (Unless someone can build a tardis van, not really going to overcome the tight space).
Jousting mirrors with white van man, or that sticky outy branch overhanging pavement (mirror protectors come in useful)

 

[smintyminty]

Hi smintyminty Sara, I've given you a couple of months free access to the forums, that should be more than enough to see your project through. Feel free to ask away and I'm sure you'll easily get more than enough information to complete your research.

Expect some answers to be more helpful than others, but I'm sure you are social media savvy enough to appreciate that. If you would like to design a Google form asking questions you can publish it here. As long as it doesn't collect any personal information

Are there things that bug you?​

​

No not a single thing​

​

are there things you couldn't live without?​

​

A compressor beer fridge​

​

do you wish there was something for ..​

​

Nope​

​

what function do you hate or love​

​

I love fixed beds that don't require building​

​

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary​

​

No real problems apart from the Ferry ports being so far away​

​

what accidents happen the most​

​

Nothing comes to mind​

That's amazing, Thank you. I don't even have that much time till I have to hand it in. Due in 5 weeks (they don't give us much time for these things) I will think more and create a questionnaire definitely. The best way to gain insight is to ask the "customer" . I really appreciate this thank you again.
sara

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[Stonemags76]

We have a Autosleepers Warwick Duo, & for the most part we love it. One thing in the design that drives me mad is the fact that they have put in lovely rear speakers for the cab radio - marvellous! Except they have neglected to change the radio settings so that it shuts off after 20 minutes! They could’ve run it from the leisure battery or put a switch so that you could choose to keep it on, but no! Every time I look at the speakers I see what could’ve been a small cupboard! Good luck with your research! Refine your questions for a better result & ask for age & make/type of van. We are a couple aged 57 & 66.

 

[nicholsong]

Sara@smintyminty

As I said in my early post this subject is maybe too wide, as the posts so far may have demonstrated.

May I suggest that you narrow the scope of the research, for example:-

do you want to cover both campervans and motorhomes? They are different beasts

do you only want answers relevant to the base vehicle including engine, gearbox, chassis, weight, suspension etc. or only to the living interior of the motorhome.

do you want to cover electrical generating systems and gas systems?

I could ask for more questions, but it would help if you could narrow down the fields you are interested in and what you are capable of designing, maybe not the mechanical side unless you are an engineer.

Maybe talk to your tutor to find out what he had in mind when he set the project, if he knows.

 

[hja]

Are there things that bug you?
We have a 6.4m Panel Van (PVC)
what bugs us the most is probably the rattles that we cant seem to get rid of.
the sink & hob are one unit which means it is easy for water to get onto the burners - would be better it they were two separate units.
Water fill point - see below.
Grey water drain point - works well if have a grid to empty into, because it is about 45cm from the edge of the van, but no good for adding a pipe to for draining into hedge etc when on a CL (Have overcome this by having an extension pipe added). This feature is probably because it is a German van and Germany is better set up for vans with aires etc and easy grey water disposal.
are there things you couldn't live without?
when we specked what we wanted for THIS van it included loo, shower, two single longitudinal beds. We are of that age (60-80) where night time visits to the loo are inevitable, and we dont want to climb over one another as would have to in transverse bed. We also prefer to use our own facilities rather than site facilities. At present I would also add electric hook up, although we have swapped battery to lithium in order to do more off grid camping. Also hob and sink/water system essential
do you wish there was something for ..
what function do you hate or love
Hate: accessibility of some storage cupboards, we havent yet got the use correct
Hate: cant sit up in bed - hit head on cupboards
Hate: a compressor fridge (which I like) but no good for off griding with one 100ah leisure battery, & 120w solar. Have now swapped battery to lithium and new solar controller which should help.
Hate: height/position of water filler - works with a hose but difficult to add water from a watering can or other container.
Love: lots of storage in total, especially large under bed garage
Every van is a compromise and we really like our van which works well for us.
what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
height barriers on car parks. "They" dont seem to realise that not all vanners want to overnight in a car park, but do use sites/aires/pubstops AND want to use car parks during the day to visit the area. No suitable parking = no spending of tourist pound
stationary - is about use of van and facilities for that. Many/most vans either are or can be easily run off grid. But too many sites still insist on electricity prices being included, and so prices rise for what is not wanted. There are then limited opportunities in the UK for non site alternatives, such as aires. Vans are heavy so can make limited use of grass areas.
what accidents happen the most
Statistically? Dont know. White van man hitting your wing mirrors. As someone else said mirror protectors are a good idea. Not having external corner sensors mean if manoeuvring a tight spot, easy to hit/scratch bumpers.

 

[suavecarve]

Sara@smintyminty

As I said in my early post this subject is maybe too wide, as the posts so far may have demonstrated.

May I suggest that you narrow the scope of the research, for example:-

do you want to cover both campervans and motorhomes? They are different beasts

do you only want answers relevant to the base vehicle including engine, gearbox, chassis, weight, suspension etc. or only to the living interior of the motorhome.

do you want to cover electrical generating systems and gas systems?

I could ask for more questions, but it would help if you could narrow down the fields you are interested in and what you are capable of designing, maybe not the mechanical side unless you are an engineer.

Maybe talk to your tutor to find out what he had in mind when he set the project, if he knows.

I think this is a superb point and coupled with Jim's generous offer you could perhaps use this thread to narrow down what might have some legs and what might be a red herring and then formulate a questionaire from that with our assistance.

My answers to your current questions are:
Are there things that bug you?
The dinette table. we have a roller team 685 which has turnaround (captains) seats and the table is far too large for just 2 people. Why they cant design one (they have but not for rollerteam) that folds over like a leaf and halves the size of the table I dont know
are there things you couldn't live without?
LPG gas, Lithium batteries, solar, beer, wine,
do you wish there was something for ..
An all singing and dancing app that covered locations of aires, truma heating, weather forecast, etc (the apps that i use)
what function do you hate or love
I surprisingly love my automatic gear box, I love my extra large fridge (now that it works) as the beer and wine is cooler, I like the bedroom area separation door, the remis blinds, the lithium, the extra solar, the lpg, and at this moment in time I am ambivalent towards an awning.
what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
The wife. Stationary or on the road, she always seems to be there stopping me getting into any possible trouble
what accidents happen the most
The electric cable and leaving with it attached is common (I have yet to do this) but splashback from filling up with water is sometimes an embarrasing one owing to level of filling up, 3 point turns when in Europe invariably see me driving on the wrong side of the road

 

[hja]

Yes - an automatic gear box was an essential for us - forgot that. And refillable LPG cylinders using an external point.

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[Kirsten]

Hi . It’s late and I have to get up early so quick answer but I couldn’t have a Moho without cooker/ shower/ loo/ pull down bed/ internal blinds.
only thing that really grieves me is why so many motorhome have berths for more passengers than seatbelts? I could live without grandkids coming with me but it is so much more lovely with them
good luck with it all

 

[the1andonly]

s something for ..




are there things you couldn't live without?
toilet
shower
hot water
3 burner hob
25kg of gas storage
550w solar
ski cupboard

do you wish there was something for ..
what function do you hate or love
the lack of spare wheel fitted as new. I had to design and manufacture my own spare wheel holder.

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
I can't find the switch to turn off my Klingon cloaking device. ( must have one considering its a huge white box and no one can see it)
visibility split door windows
I have 4 cameras (2 displays)

what accidents happen the most
driving off the end of ramps (if there was a product waiting to be designed)or problem to to be solved this is it
are there things you couldn't live without?
toilet
shower
hot water
3 burner hob
25kg of gas storage
550w solar
ski cupboard

do you wish there was something for ..
what function do you hate or love
the lack of spare wheel fitted as new. I had to design and manufacture my own spare wheel holder.

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
I can't find the switch to turn off my Klingon cloaking device. ( must have one considering its a huge white box and no one can see it)
visibility split door windows
I have 4 cameras (2 displays)

what accidents happen the most
driving off the end of ramps (if there was a product waiting to be designed)or problem to to be solved this is it
are there things you couldn't live without?
toilet
shower
hot water
3 burner hob
25kg of gas storage
550w solar
ski cupboard

do you wish there was something for ..
what function do you hate or love
the lack of spare wheel fitted as new. I had to design and manufacture my own spare wheel holder.

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
I can't find the switch to turn off my Klingon cloaking device. ( must have one considering its a huge white box and no one can see it)
visibility split door windows
I have 4 cameras (2 displays)

what accidents happen the most
driving off the end of ramps (if there was a product waiting to be designed)or problem to to be solved this is it

 

[the1andonly]

are there things you couldn't live without?
toilet
shower
hot water
3 burner hob
25kg of gas storage
550w solar
ski cupboard

do you wish there was something for ..
what function do you hate or love
the lack of spare wheel fitted as new. I had to design and manufacture my own spare wheel holder.

what's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary
I can't find the switch to turn off my Klingon cloaking device. ( must have one considering its a huge white box and no one can see it)
visibility split door windows
I have 4 cameras (2 displays)

what accidents happen the most
driving off the end of ramps (if there was a product waiting to be designed)or problem to to be solved this is it

 

[ManTheVan]

Our son was at Bangor and loved it - Zoology though, not PD...I know how difficult it can be to gather reliable data from the general public, so good luck with the project.

Are there things that bug you?

• As others have said, the lack of infrastructure in the UK that would make using a motorhome even better, such as the ability to park and sleep overnight in most towns, as you can in France.
• The lack of a properly regulated scheme to register self-contained motorhomes (as they have in NZ) which would certify that they are capable of parking wild without leaving a trace (so, own water supply, solid and liquid waste storage, etc).

Are there things you couldn't live without?
Repetitive answer, but our own toilet, cooking facilities, shower, heating, hot water and fridge.

Do you wish there was something for ..

• Making the MH blend more into the environment so as to attract less attention when wild parking. Blue sky idea: maybe a reactive wrap that could detect the background and change its camouflage automatically (I'm thinking akin to the chromatophores on an octopus...)
• Compacting recyclable waste so it's easier to store.

What function do you hate or love

• Love: arriving, activating the automatic levelling, swivelling the chair around, popping on the heating (if it's cold) and digging out a beer or G&T.
• Hate: too strong a word, but dislike it when other people are inconsiderate or rude. Owners who allow their dogs to crap in public places, especially campsites, and don't pick it up (or worse still, put it in a bag and leave it for someone else to collect).

What's your biggest problems on the road and or stationary

• Rude or inconsiderate drivers
• Those who don't know the width of their own vehicle and force you into a hedge.
• Forgetting to activate the locks on drawers before setting off, so they crash out and spill their contents. Could you invent an alarm for this?

What accidents happen the most
Occasional splash back when emptying the toilet cassette That's never good. Maybe you could invent a simple, splash-back-proof waste disposal point that empties and refreshes the cassette. Now that would be amazing. (Most chemical toilets have a cassette that holds the waste securely until it's full, so you need to empty them into designated disposal points).

Hope this helps. If you need anyone to trial prototypes, it's always worth asking here.

 

[Revolvor]

Maybe you could invent a simple, splash-back-proof waste disposal point that empties and refreshes the cassette. Now that would be amazing.

I've used one of these on a CAMH site.

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[L' Hobo]

I wish you well in your project but, as you must have realised by now, unless you can see the person and their situation in life, rich or poor, young or old etc. it will be hard to comprehend what is good for one person, is not for another.

Can I suggest that you visit a large Motorhome show, (there is one coming up at the NEC) and visit the different stand especially Murvi and Stimson (if they still exhibit) and others.
It is a good place to find people who are looking at motorhomes, and ask them what they are looking for.
You will quickly find out that no two people are/want the same.

I am content with the elderly Murvi Morello I have now, because it has most of what I need in a reasonably small area (6metres) and has some, but not too much, electronic stuff that I do not understand and cannot fix despite being a mechanical engineer.

As I say, I am content but it has taken me 50yrs to find, and be able to afford and justify, the outlay of a large PVC (panel van conversion).

Good Luck!

PS, What bugs me? The selfish & thoughtlessness of the few van users, that give the majority a bad name!

 

[nicholsong]

N

That's amazing, Thank you. I don't even have that much time till I have to hand it in. Due in 5 weeks (they don't give us much time for these things) I will think more and create a questionnaire definitely. The best way to gain insight is to ask the "customer" . I really appreciate this thank you again.
sara

Sara smintyminty

I have just caught up on this post

As someone who has studied hard partime - I did a London University Law Degree and the Bar Exams while working, plus projects I have had to research in Aviation, I want to understand how this project and timescale came about.

I would first like to know what was the agreed text of the Project definition.

Secondly, when was the timescale set? Was it six weeks ago, or the beginning of the academic year and have you just realised the deadline?

If the project was set for you recently and the parameters were not defined narrow enough for you to complete in the timescale, then the best help that you need is somebody like me to challenge the setter of the project, otherwise you might be judged badly on the results versus the expectations.

Sara, please come back to me on these points, especially the definition of the Project.

Geoff

 

[Folkranger]

Hi Sara smintyminty
I assume your brief is about the design of motorhomes/campervans and not external facilities etc.

I find that most requirements that people have are provided by the various manufacturers and it is only cost, size or weight constraints that leads people to buy a motorhome without certain features.

That does not mean that things can't be improved. Everyone can point out design features on their vans which are unnecessarily stupid. Garages that have one large door and one small useless door, Shower doors which can't be opened when the bed is in place....... So many things, but the improvement that I would suggest is input by real customers before the design is commited to full scale manufacture This is my biggest gripe. Maybe this could be motivated through a fit for purpose certification scheme based on this input to design.

In terms of specific improvements, there is one problem that has affected most people on here for years and continues to cost people significant amounts of money:
There is an airbag ECU that controls the Fiat engine. This often fails and has to be replaced, sometimes repeatedly. This is a base vehicle manufacturer issue and, due to intermittent use, only affects motorhomes (not vans). Fiat show no sign of remedying this and the motorhome converters accept the situation. Either the Converters could put pressure onto Fiat for a software change or they could design a modification to make the ECU fit for motorhome service.

Outside of design a significant constraint is the 3.5 tonne licence limit which needs governmental review.