Reasons for reclassification rejection

[AndyVW]

In 2008 the UK accepted a EU directive called "whole vehicle type approval"
If a body builder puts on the back of a commercial vehicle a motorhome body
The whole thing is type approved and then registered as a MH.
As you can imagine the work for the bodybuilder to do this is extensive.
So what actually happens they register there chassis first ( commercial vehicle) and then put the body on

With Panel vans this gave DVLA a headache ... and it sounds like they still have one.
In there defence, if you have a dispute on what yours is called, see the VCA not the DVLA if you satisfy them
the DVLA will change the entry.

and for emission stickers and certification, The TUV in Germany is the best and cheapest place , and it is accepted in the UK.

 

[TonyEmm]

I telephoned DVLA to change my motorhome 2001 Mercedes Hymer B680 (A CLASS) from a PRIVATE HGV to a motor home, which it obviously is, (mainly for the emission control, legal entry to various towns) and was told that in my log book there are no emission values stated, and they are correct ther are none, he did give me a few phone numbers to ring for the addition of a cat converter. The B680 is a 4500Kg moho, I did telephone a few of the installers and was told that to install a cat for the 2.1 diesel engine would be in the region of £7500.00, I can get it done in Germany for about £150.00 with a German certificate, but would that certificate be acceptable in the UK ??

This is only my opinion but, the German testing and homoogation procedures are amongst the the most stringent in Europe. As long as you have the proper paperwork, it’s hard to see how they could deny it!

 

[nicholsong]

In 2008 the UK accepted a EU directive called "whole vehicle type approval"
If a body builder puts on the back of a commercial vehicle a motorhome body
The whole thing is type approved and then registered as a MH.
As you can imagine the work for the bodybuilder to do this is extensive.
So what actually happens they register there chassis first ( commercial vehicle) and then put the body on

With Panel vans this gave DVLA a headache ... and it sounds like they still have one.
In there defence, if you have a dispute on what yours is called, see the VCA not the DVLA if you satisfy them
the DVLA will change the entry.

and for emission stickers and certification, The TUV in Germany is the best and cheapest place , and it is accepted in the UK.

I wonder when any DVLA employee ever went to look at a vehicle on which they are making a decision, also would they know one end from the other?

I have for a long time believed that anything technical about vehicles, including being the 'Registration Authority', should be taken away from DVLA and put under DVSA and VCA,, leaving DVLA to collect the tax, which is all they seem interested in and competent to do - even that is not 100% successful.

Geoff

 

[The Green's]

This is only my opinion but, the German testing and homoogation procedures are amongst the the most stringent in Europe. As long as you have the proper paperwork, it’s hard to see how they could deny it!

You only have to look at Volkswagen et al, to see how good the German manufacturers are at limiting emissions

 

[Simon Select]

They changed the rules. It now has to have a high top ,graphics, windows, private butler etc etc.....
It will probably say on the rejection letter that they can still use it as a camper van.

Simon

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[Herbyventures]

We had no difficulty insuring our van as a camper van, and we have yet to apply for reclassification, I've got as far as printing out the forms. I only wish I'd taken a photo of it on a camp site in Wales in September, where I felt very happy that with our alterations and graphics it did not look as if some tradesperson had just pitched up in a panel van (as I'd half suspected it might!) But having read the above I'm now thinking, if it does come back as van with windows, I won't be bothered at all. Very useful and informative discussion, thank you all!

 

[34127]

I see that some insurance companies are now saying that a campervan classified as a van with windows is an acceptable alternative to being classified as a motor caravan and can therefore offer insurance.

 

[Catpirate]

Gosh, Brain freeze.........

 

[TonyEmm]

You only have to look at Volkswagen et al, to see how good the German manufacturers are at limiting emissions

I’ve experienced it first hand! I had a ‘62 plate Octavia....

 

[pappajohn]

I telephoned DVLA to change my motorhome 2001 Mercedes Hymer B680 (A CLASS) from a PRIVATE HGV to a motor home, which it obviously is, (mainly for the emission control, legal entry to various towns) and was told that in my log book there are no emission values stated, and they are correct ther are none, he did give me a few phone numbers to ring for the addition of a cat converter. The B680 is a 4500Kg moho, I did telephone a few of the installers and was told that to install a cat for the 2.1 diesel engine would be in the region of £7500.00, I can get it done in Germany for about £150.00 with a German certificate, but would that certificate be acceptable in the UK ??

Private heavy goods vehicle is a classification for road fund licence only.
Motorhome classification is type of body and can include any weight up to 44 tons

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[gus-lopez]

You only have to look at Volkswagen et al, to see how good the German manufacturers are at limiting emissions

& what they did was perfectly legal. The rules only required that the emissions were correct at testing time. I'have never come across anyone interested in what emissions were only what fuel consumption was?

 

[Jim Dowd]

Just had ours returned as “Van with windows” due to not meeting external requirements although it has everything on it that is listed and required, it would be helpful if the dvla were more specific they state their decision is final unless you make further changes as per guideline and you can provide the evidence. At a loss what additional changes can be made. Likewise Adrian Flux has confirmed they have it down as a campervan regardless of what the V5 states.

 

[34127]

It is not a problem with it being classified as a van with windows but the DVLA stance is infuriating. They are basically asking you to pass a test or exam but won't tell you the questions.
I know of one person who has submitted a van with no external decals and included a note saying that if it does not get classified as a Motor Caravan then under a Freedom of Information request he has asked the DVLA to indicate exactly where abouts on the van they want to see some decals and examples of what type they want and where fitted. If no response to this the next letter will be to his MP pointing out what a ridiculous stance the DVLA are taking.

 

[68c]

I remember something like this in the '60s, my dad bought an old van cheap then put windows and seats in it, no belts of course. Cannot remember the details but I know he had to declare the changes. Do not know if it was a cheap way of getting a car in those days or if any tax implications. Does any one remember the van/windows thing in those days?

 

[TonyEmm]

I remember something like this in the '60s, my dad bought an old van cheap then put windows and seats in it, no belts of course. Cannot remember the details but I know he had to declare the changes. Do not know if it was a cheap way of getting a car in those days or if any tax implications. Does any one remember the van/windows thing in those days?

It was a fairly common practice back in the day! It was a relatively cheap way of getting a car.... This probably wouldn’t be relevant buying an old van privately, but when buying a van, the VAT was reclaimable by anyone vat registered (still is) . The van could have seats and windows fitted, effectively making it a car, but it obviously needed declaring. At that point, you could be charged a proportion of the original vat due.... not sure exactly how it worked but I believe it was age related.

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[tacr2man]

The window and declaring thing in vans was down to Cars were subject to purchase tax . Vans were not , so if you had windows behind the those fitted in front doors above a certain size (area) you had to pay the purchase tax due as it would then be classed as a car . IIRC there was a time limit after which it did not apply .

 

[Crafty]

Just had ours returned as “Van with windows” due to not meeting external requirements although it has everything on it that is listed and required, it would be helpful if the dvla were more specific they state their decision is final unless you make further changes as per guideline and you can provide the evidence. At a loss what additional changes can be made. Likewise Adrian Flux has confirmed they have it down as a campervan regardless of what the V5 states.

We're in exactly the same boat.

The DVLA have issued very clear guidelines about what is required externally to be reclassified. We complied with every aspect, but got a vague response about it not looking like one to the police and a whole load of waffle. Anyone that saw the photos we sent to the DVLA would laugh at the suggestion it doesn't look like a MH. We've applied three times now. First was before the 2019 clarification on external features, then we added decals so we had everything on their list, then we added more decals just in case there was a viewpoint it maybe looked like a van. Rejected every time

There's clearly a silly game going on with this.

My view is its probably related to clean air zones in cities.

There's currently an ongoing consultation for Greater Manchester for a clean air charging zone, and early indications are that motorhomes will not get charged (there's a web based form where you can see if your vehicle would be charged, and if you tick 'motorcaravan' it always comes up no charge).

For me its looking like we'll be charged £15 every time we leave the house, but if the DVLA accepted our conversion potentially not!

 

[Herbyventures]

We're in exactly the same boat.

The DVLA have issued very clear guidelines about what is required externally to be reclassified. We complied with every aspect, but got a vague response about it not looking like one to the police and a whole load of waffle. Anyone that saw the photos we sent to the DVLA would laugh at the suggestion it doesn't look like a MH. We've applied three times now. First was before the 2019 clarification on external features, then we added decals so we had everything on their list, then we added more decals just in case there was a viewpoint it maybe looked like a van. Rejected every time

There's clearly a silly game going on with this.

My view is its probably related to clean air zones in cities.

There's currently an ongoing consultation for Greater Manchester for a clean air charging zone, and early indications are that motorhomes will not get charged (there's a web based form where you can see if your vehicle would be charged, and if you tick 'motorcaravan' it always comes up no charge).

For me its looking like we'll be charged £15 every time we leave the house, but if the DVLA accepted our conversion potentially not!

We had a letter back when we applied recently, saying our van conversion did not have all the required changes to the exterior, but we have 'at least 2 windows on one side of the van' (caravan style ones as well, not bonded), we have graphics aplenty, we have an awning rail, it is full walk in height, and we have a separate door to the living area of the van, albeit a sliding one, not a caravan style door. The only thing I wondered about what whether by 'awning bar' they mean an actual pull out awning? I know one person on here asked and was told by the DVLA that an awning rail was fine (after all, many purpose built motorhomes do not have a pull out awning) but that is literally the only 'requirement' I can see they could quibble about. Obviously we can't completely change it's body shape, but I'd say ours is very obviously converted for use as a camper van. I don't feel embarrassed to park it on a camp site.
It's frustrating - but I've read in another thread on here somewhere that if it is being used as a motor caravan and is insured as a motor caravan, if you were snapped by ANPR cameras exceeding the 'goods van' speed limit, you could challenge that, (and I'm sure someone said it has successfully been challenged?) since it is clearly impossible for a permanently converted van to be used for transporting goods commercially. Therefore, I'd suggest arguing the case if you find yourself being charged to use your van conversion - and get the local papers involved! Send the local paper a photo of you having a cuppa in your van and point out the absurdity of being able to insure your vehicle as something the DVLA refuse to acknowledge it is.
I can't see why they even have a checklist or pretend there is a process by which you can get a vehicle converted, since they clearly don't want people doing it. I'd love to know the real reason why.

 

[68c]

It looks like they want to make it easier for the police to know it is a camper/motorhome. Now why they want to know is another question, it may be they want to apply the correct speed limit or that they want to know if you are wild camping. So the stealth brigade with their white van lookalike get to camp anywhere but will have to drive slower to get there.

 

[34127]

We had a letter back when we applied recently, saying our van conversion did not have all the required changes to the exterior, but we have 'at least 2 windows on one side of the van' (caravan style ones as well, not bonded),

Just to clarify, do you mean 2 windows on one side in addition to the front door window or including the front door window.

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[34127]

It looks like they want to make it easier for the police to know it is a camper/motorhome. Now why they want to know is another question, it may be they want to apply the correct speed limit or that they want to know if you are wild camping. So the stealth brigade with their white van lookalike get to camp anywhere but will have to drive slower to get there.

Most of the photos I have seen of 'rejected' vehicles look to me like a Campervan and I am sure a lot of police officers will think the same. As mentioned before the DVLA have caused a bigger problem by having commercial vehicles and converted campervans both described on the V5 as Van with Windows but a different speed limits apply to the vehicles, how is that going to be policed.

 

[poppycamper]

I have followed this thread since start... I was fortunate enough to get my PVC reclassified motor caravan before these daft rules..
I would be interested to know if all (as it seems) conversions are being classified "van with windows" or have some actually had motor caravan classifications????

 

[Herbyventures]

Just to clarify, do you mean 2 windows on one side in addition to the front door window or including the front door window.

In addition. We've got a large window either side at the front of the living area and a small one at the back.

 

[Herbyventures]

It looks like they want to make it easier for the police to know it is a camper/motorhome. Now why they want to know is another question, it may be they want to apply the correct speed limit or that they want to know if you are wild camping. So the stealth brigade with their white van lookalike get to camp anywhere but will have to drive slower to get there.

I confess I don't fully understand the concept of 'stealth camping', or why it would be easier to wild camp 'secretly'. Surely if you've parked a socking big van in the wild to sleep in, you might as well have windows as not?!

 

[gus-lopez]

I have followed this thread since start... I was fortunate enough to get my PVC reclassified motor caravan before these daft rules..
I would be interested to know if all (as it seems) conversions are being classified "van with windows" or have some actually had motor caravan classifications????

No someone on another thread challenged the " no right of appeal" & confronted them & had the application approved & changed to 'motorhome'. This was quite recent. Perhaps someone else can remember who it was?

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[34127]

I have followed this thread since start... I was fortunate enough to get my PVC reclassified motor caravan before these daft rules..
I would be interested to know if all (as it seems) conversions are being classified "van with windows" or have some actually had motor caravan classifications????

I have seen photos fairly recently of a conversion classified as Motor Caravan and it didn't look any different to other applications that were classed as Van with Windows.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I confess I don't fully understand the concept of 'stealth camping', or why it would be easier to wild camp 'secretly'. Surely if you've parked a socking big van in the wild to sleep in, you might as well have windows as not?!

If a van looks like a van ie, no windows in the back, no awning, or decals then who’s to say someone is living in it. That’s a Stealth van, less likely to be targeted by nimby’s or authorities so nil cost for staying over.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I have seen photos fairly recently of a conversion classified as Motor Caravan and it didn't look any different to other applications that were classed as Van with Windows.

Can you point us in the right direction for these photos as I want to fight my decision thanks

 

[Crafty]

We had a letter back when we applied recently, saying our van conversion did not have all the required changes to the exterior, but we have 'at least 2 windows on one side of the van' (caravan style ones as well, not bonded), we have graphics aplenty, we have an awning rail, it is full walk in height, and we have a separate door to the living area of the van, albeit a sliding one, not a caravan style door. The only thing I wondered about what whether by 'awning bar' they mean an actual pull out awning? I know one person on here asked and was told by the DVLA that an awning rail was fine (after all, many purpose built motorhomes do not have a pull out awning) but that is literally the only 'requirement' I can see they could quibble about. Obviously we can't completely change it's body shape, but I'd say ours is very obviously converted for use as a camper van. I don't feel embarrassed to park it on a camp site.
It's frustrating - but I've read in another thread on here somewhere that if it is being used as a motor caravan and is insured as a motor caravan, if you were snapped by ANPR cameras exceeding the 'goods van' speed limit, you could challenge that, (and I'm sure someone said it has successfully been challenged?) since it is clearly impossible for a permanently converted van to be used for transporting goods commercially. Therefore, I'd suggest arguing the case if you find yourself being charged to use your van conversion - and get the local papers involved! Send the local paper a photo of you having a cuppa in your van and point out the absurdity of being able to insure your vehicle as something the DVLA refuse to acknowledge it is.
I can't see why they even have a checklist or pretend there is a process by which you can get a vehicle converted, since they clearly don't want people doing it. I'd love to know the real reason why.

I certainly would argue my case if I was charged as a van in any future congestion charging scheme, but it would be far far easier if it was simply registered correctly by the DVLA!

We know what the law says about speeding, and we know that the law is based on construction and use regs definition of a motorcaravan, ot what the DVLA register it as.

For the clean air charging schemes that many large cities are about to implement, we haven't seen the legal text yet as they're mostly just at consultation stage

 

[34127]

..

Can you point us in the right direction for these photos as I want to fight my decision thanks

Found it - on this forum

Woohoo, got one!

Must be my lucky day, got my V5 back with 'Motor caravan' body type! Had to add more graphics than I wanted (but pleased with result anyway). Sent 22 photos in, with description on the back and labels on the front showing exact wording of DVLA requirements i.e. 'motor caravan style graphics'...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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