Rear load Warning Sign for Italy - needed for folded bike racK?

[lebesset]

I think you should be careful about that , johns cross , as it could be said to be misrepresentation , not being true

one of my italian friends is a retired traffic policeman , and uses the cardboard type himself
do you really think a company the size of fiamma would make and sell illegal signs in Italy ?

they may be a little laid back [ I spent my career working for a major italian company and was often there ] , but they sure ain't daft

I think the confusion here comes from the regulations for vehicles over 12m long , where EU regulations DO demand metal

 

[Wintonian]

The Italian Tourist Board web site is pretty clear on this:

"Any vehicle with a overhanging load (e.g. carrying bicycle at rear) must display reflectorised square panel; a fine may be imposed if the sign is not displayed."

It does NOT define the type, shape or size of the reflectors, so common sense must prevail (Red reflective, because it is at the rear of the vehicle, with white paint alternate bands).

It does NOT specify the construction material.

Interestingly, it doe NOT specify a size!

Plastic happens to be less robust than aluminium alloy, so I would opt for the latter as a matter of course.

And don't forget that you must also carry the original vehicle registration document with you (as we have to do in France - my wallet has three of them stuffing it out!).

 

[hilldweller]

Well if you do take a bike you will need one of these, it has to be a metal one for Italy

Warning Sign Aluminium for Bike Rack

Peter

And it's arrived.

The interesting bit is a prominent official looking approval notice from some Italian department. So I guess I'm safe now.

 

[lebesset]

reflectorised I notice , not reflecting ; hence the reflector in each corner

 

[navman]

And it's arrived.

The interesting bit is a prominent official looking approval notice from some Italian department. So I guess I'm safe now.

Brian I am not sure you could ever be classed as 'safe'

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[tommytli]

And it's arrived.

The interesting bit is a prominent official looking approval notice from some Italian department. So I guess I'm safe now.

and mine:thumb: it says on the bottom "ministero ll.pp approvazione sait d.m n 937-29-03-94"
" translated by bablefish "ministry approval "
so at least im defo legal

 

[Wintonian]

The Italian Law on this subject appears to be moot on the material that the sign is made of. It does offer aluminium as a suggestion, but does not demand its use. The fact that an aluminium one is marked as Approved does not mean that any other type is NOT Approved, since the law does not appear to demand any type of official approval. I may be wrong, of course, and Ministero LL.PP is the same Ministry that sets the following Decree!

"Art. 361. Pannelli per la segnalazione della sporgenza longitudinale del carico (art. 164 C.s.).
I pannelli quadrangolari per segnalare sporgenze longitudinali del carico da installarsi alla estremità della sporgenza ai sensi dell'articolo 164, comma 9, del codice devono corrispondere al tipo indicato nella figura V.3 e devono avere una superficie minima di 2500 cmq. Detta superficie deve essere rivestita con materiale retroriflettente a strisce alternate bianche e rosse disposte a 45º. 2. Il pannello di cui al comma 1 deve essere visibile sia di giorno che di notte. A tal fine sulla superficie del pannello, costituito di norma da lamiera metallica, deve essere applicata pellicola rifrangente di classe 2, sia per le strisce bianche che per quelle rosse. 3. Quando il carico sporge longitudinalmente per l'intera larghezza della parte posteriore del veicolo, i pannelli di segnalazione devono essere due, posti trasversalmente, ciascuno da un estremo del carico, o della sagoma sporgente. 4. In ordine alla fabbricazione, prova e omologazione dei pannelli di segnalazione previsti dal presente articolo si applicano le disposizioni dell'articolo 192 (1). (1) Comma così modificato dall'art. 204, d.P.R. 16 settembre 1996, n. 610."

In English (Googles' translation):
"Art 361. Panels for the reporting of the longitudinal projection of the load (Art. 164 Cs).
quadrilateral panels to report longitudinal projections of the load to be installed at the end of the projection according to Article 164, paragraph 9, the code must match the type shown in Figure V.3 and must have a minimum area of 2500 cmq. This surface should be coated with reflective material stripes alternating red and white placed at 45 º. 2. The panel set out in paragraph 1 shall be visible both day and night. To this end, on the surface of the panel normally consists of metal sheet, reflective film should be applied to Class 2, for both white stripes to red ones. 3. When the load protrudes lengthwise across the entire width of the rear of the vehicle, the signal must be two panels, seats across, each from one end of the load, or protruding shape. 4. In regard to the manufacture, testing and approval panels reporting under this Article, the provisions of Article 192 (1). (1) as amended by Clause. 204 DPR 16 September 1996, No 610."

The panels do not have to be square - merely 'quadrilateral', which could lead to some interesting shapes and subsequent discussions with Italian Police over the finer points of geometry!

Two panels may be necessary for a wide projecting object - such as a couple of bikes. There must be one panel marking each end of the projecting load, when the load is the same width as the vehicle.

The question of attachment of these panels is not addressed at all. This is a bad omission as a sheet of aluminium suddenly flying loose could decapitate a motorcyclist or anyone else in the open who was unlucky enough to be hit by it. Perhaps plastic or cardboard is, in fact, a safer option (along with a printout of Article 361).

And, the law requires the marker boards to be used on anything that projects beyond the vehicle itself - so even a folded bike rack must carry one! I break the law all the time, in that regard, presumably.:Sad:

 

[scotjimland]

"Art 361. Panels for the reporting of the longitudinal projection of the load (Art. 164 Cs).
quadrilateral panels to report longitudinal projections of the load to be installed at the end of the projection according to Article 164, paragraph 9, the code must match the type shown in Figure V.3 and must have a minimum area of 2500 cmq. This surface should be coated with reflective material stripes alternating red and white placed at 45 º. 2. The panel set out in paragraph 1 shall be visible both day and night. To this end, on the surface of the panel normally consists of metal sheet, reflective film should be applied to Class 2, for both white stripes to red ones. 3. When the load protrudes lengthwise across the entire width of the rear of the vehicle, the signal must be two panels, seats across, each from one end of the load, or protruding shape. 4. In regard to the manufacture, testing and approval panels reporting under this Article, the provisions of Article 192 (1). (1) as amended by Clause. 204 DPR 16 September 1996, No 610."

A fine bit of Googling ... :thumb:

it clearly says reflective film ... so are Fiamma marketing a non conforming board ?

As already said, that is odd when the are made and sold in Italy ..

 

[tommytli]

my plastic 1 doesnt have a reflective surface like it states it should, it just has little reflectors in each corner so would that have been legal?

 

[Geo]

my plastic 1 doesnt have a reflective surface like it states it should, it just has little reflectors in each corner so would that have been legal?

It was in another post on the very same subject, in that post I reported a conversation with an Italian Motorhome owner That I persoally had .
The subject was an on the spot fine for having the fiamma plastic type board with four round reflectors
He told me in perfect English that the board had to have red and white reflective stripes, as far as im aware only the Fiamma aluminium one has these, this previous post could be found if searched for.
It would appear that the Italian directive supports what I reported originally ie reflective stripes red and white:thumb:
Geo

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