Re map horrors

[Just us on Tour]

Hi All
I am thinking of have my fiat 2021 fiat 2.2 with the 9 speed auto re mapped . I hear various positive things about the benefits of re mapping .
Has anyone had any nightmares or issues after they have had their van re mapped ?

 

[stevewagner]

Had a Quantum remap a few months ago that cost £249. Immediately noticed the difference particularly uphill and improved economy. Just completed 3850 miles in Europe and averaged 29.9 mpg, where previously I was getting 28.
With Quantum the technician downloads your map which is sent to the HQ. They do their magic and send it back and he loads it back in.

 

[poppycamper]

So the question remains unanswered unless no one wants to admit spending £400 and its made things worse or no difference.

Well my answer is that I have only 130bhp on a 4.1t van and I find that more than adequate, up hill and down dale..Oh and scooting along motorways.
However it is not your run of the mill and apparently troublesome Ducato, but IMOA a far superior work horse a Vauxhall Movano aka Renault Master..

 

[poppycamper]

Have you read what is above?

Yes and also what was below...
Unlike some I read all posts and all parts of a post before I reply......... AND my comment still applys

 

[Landy Andy]

Yes and also what was below...
Unlike some I read all posts and all parts of a post before I reply......... AND my comment still applys

Good, so you will have read that no one who has had a remap has had a problem then.

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[Griff097]

Hi All
I am thinking of have my fiat 2021 fiat 2.2 with the 9 speed auto re mapped . I hear various positive things about the benefits of re mapping .
Has anyone had any nightmares or issues after they have had their van re mapped ?

Celtic tuning are experts in this, they did one van for me with an eco tune and I drove it and it was better, but I was less than satisfied and there was no quibble they just put a different map again in the van and it was spot on.
They send someone out to you so it's really easy.

 

[poppycamper]

Good, so you will have read that no one who has had a remap has had a problem then.

Or they not prepaired to admit they did infact make a mistake and wasted their money

 

[Landy Andy]

Ahh, ok. So forums and asking questions is pointless, as you will only get positive replies. People aren’t honest.

 

[Nikwilko]

Remap uses more fuel, is never anything more than a generic file, unless map is done in conjunction with an auto box map is not a good solution. Mfr has optimised the vehicle yet a bloke in a lock up running a franchise knows better yeah right.
No comeback if it goes wrong, unless you have confirmed the mechanical components are identical to those on higher output variants likely breaks the next weak link in the chain. Increases your emissions.

 

[Windy66]

Had ours done biased for power (difficulty getting up hills) and not economy. Now its brill in terms of power. Economy went down by a couple of mpg. I can be gentle on the throttle though to compensate.

Thoughts are that remapping for power will increase stress on the rest of the system but not to a level greater than it can cope.

The only consideration might be applying mechanical sympathy to the clutch as I do think that is an area that ‘may’ be a higher risk. Although 40k miles later has not caused us any issues so far! Touch wood.

So I’d recommend it, consider your needs, and be sympathetic to the mechanics.

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[funflair]

Remap uses more fuel, is never anything more than a generic file, unless map is done in conjunction with an auto box map is not a good solution. Mfr has optimised the vehicle yet a bloke in a lock up running a franchise knows better yeah right.
No comeback if it goes wrong, unless you have confirmed the mechanical components are identical to those on higher output variants likely breaks the next weak link in the chain. Increases your emissions.

Most peoples experience is that the engine is smother and more efficient with a remap and actually uses less fuel, who did yours?

 

[Two on Tour]

Most peoples experience is that the engine is smother and more efficient with a remap and actually uses less fuel, who did yours?

His mate down the pub or the bloke in a lock up I would imagine.

 

[IRHP]

I keep reading that it makes the engine smoother. I just can't see how that's possible unless they mean they can maintain a lower gear longer.

 

[tonyidle]

I keep reading that it makes the engine smoother. I just can't see how that's possible unless they mean they can maintain a lower gear longer.

Injector timing? Plenty to optimise with multiple injection events per firing stroke.

 

[chaser]

What I don't get with this remapping job, is if it's so easy ,why didn't the manufacturer do it in the first place, why send out an inferior engine.

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[IRHP]

Injector timing? Plenty to optimise with multiple injection events per firing stroke.

If injector timing is off its not a remap it needs.

 

[oldfan56]

2014 130HP Bailey motorhome (Peugeot Boxer) had it remapped 2 years ago. Much better since it now goes up Telegraph Hill Exeter in 6th gear previously we were down to 3rd and struggling! bloke who did it said power had gone from 130BHP to 190. Don't know the facts on that but no regrets, consumption seems about the same

 

[Landy Andy]

What I don't get with this remapping job, is if it's so easy ,why didn't the manufacturer do it in the first place, why send out an inferior engine.

Because they aren’t interested in making the smoothest engine, they are making and engine for all countries and different fuel qualities, but biggest of all they are trying to meet emissions and Co levels to comply with various regulations, rules, and tax brackets.

 

[chaser]

Because they aren’t interested in making the smoothest engine, they are making and engine for all countries and different fuel qualities, but biggest of all they are trying to meet emissions and Co levels to comply with various regulations, rules, and tax brackets.

So when it's been done, are you saying it doesn't meet regulations, how does it pass the MOT?

 

[tonyidle]

If injector timing is off its not a remap it needs.

The manufacturer uses a single map for every engine of the same type. Injector timing is not simple anymore as the injector fires multiple times per power stroke. I don't doubt there is room for optimisation. The engine tune will be conservative to ensure that every engine, no matter Its kind of use or the environment it operates within, meets or exceeds emissions legislation.

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[Nikwilko]

Most peoples experience is that the engine is smother and more efficient with a remap and actually uses less fuel, who did yours?

Have investigated several remaps for a vehicle manufacturer and the findings were,
Higher fuel consumption
Components overly stressed beyond design limits clutch, dmf, Gearbox bearing failure rate due to torsion vibration excessive.
Harsh driveline shunt under cruise control operation when trying to return to setspeed.
The remappers are tweaking a limited number of variables to increase torque or change the torque curve but they have no knowledge as to why the base calibration was limited (ie component protection). The myth of mfr limiting torque due to some markets having lower grade fuel is rubbish. A common calibration is used across EU as its fuel has to meet a minimum standard.
Remap if you wish but you've no comeback with the remap industry basic pyramid selling scheme of franchises. The individuals hacking the base SW likely based in China and release decoding files to the industry, an industry that all tweaks the few parameters they can show increase torque with no knowledge as to wider impacts.
Buy the van with the engine output you need would be my recommendation not something hacked by a remap outfit.

 

[MichaelT]

Because they aren’t interested in making the smoothest engine, they are making and engine for all countries and different fuel qualities, but biggest of all they are trying to meet emissions and Co levels to comply with various regulations, rules, and tax brackets.

Yes they have to meet strict regulations and type approvals.

Also you need to tell insurer that it's been modified.

 

[Bucket]

I've always thought the whole industry a bit of smoke and mirror. I wonder how much the effect of a remap is just a placebo, someone tells you it will be better, charges you loads of money and you convince yourself it is. You really believe it. You believe it so much, you'll rush on here to tell me I'm Sooo wrong

Just like someone I know, a sensible and intelligent chap who, no matter what I said, insisted he got an extra 5 to 10 mpg by aligning fuel molecules using some expensive special earth magnets he bought and clamped around his fuel line. ..

Them magnets sound good. Where can I get some....

 

[Diabalo]

My 2013 Autotrail Mohawk 2.3 4250Kgs was done by Quantum 130 to 160 if I remember correctly and that was 10 years ago with no problem. I test drove it before the re-map and driving fully loaded it did pull better. Getting 27mpg on average over those 10 years using the Fulio app for recording purposes, so correct. No idea what the mpg may have been before a re-map.

 

[Fdhadi]

The difference between the 130bhp and 150bhp isn’t a simple re-map.

Ducato Conversion Engine - Fiat Professional Islanda

www.fiatprofessional.is

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[activecampers]

Not read abov

But has your van been main dealer (fiat Pro) serviced and the ECUs updated? Mine was feeling really flat and not the 160 with the torque curve I expected and as per the engine technical specs, and was on the verge of complaining. So on its 1st service I mentioned to check/upgrade ECU software, and instant change - mpg up and performance and low down torque as per the specs.

ECU updates really should be done, esp with the auto. (The auto engine has more low down torque than the manual as the gearbox can take it and the manual clutch can't - so surprised to hear you are low on torque). Many issues are resolved that may not come to light years later

Many garages don't check unless asked, and non fiat pro garages can't....

(I did ECU dump pre/post service so know the SW was updated. But equally at the same weekend the van clocked 6000 miles (10,000km) and knew it had a service. So can't 100% say if the performance change was due to ECU software, or passing 10k run in period, or due to 1st service)

Personally, I'd never use a 3rd party tune - yes they can work and give better X and Y but at a cost which may not ever be seen, but could cause more heat and cause issues with something; or more component strain etc, and IMO the vans are fragile enough Also insurance etc.....

 

[Landy Andy]

So when it's been done, are you saying it doesn't meet regulations, how does it pass the MOT?

The mot is just checking for soot particles. My van passes the mot with no cat, no EGR, and a remap. In actual fact it passes the very first press of the accelerator because it isn’t burning crap from the exhaust, it isn’t storing soot, and is mapped to run better.

The regulations are for things like the environmental sticker that you put in your windscreen, and that sort of money making process.

 

[jezport]

Daft question, but how did that compare to a normal exhaust cost?

Not sure, definitely a lot more but it was fully tig welded, full stainless steel, was a lot quieter sounding, smoother and faster from standstill, and would never need replacing again. The fuel economy improvement was also better than expected.

 

[Minxy]

Them magnets sound good. Where can I get some....

I've still got mine ... I can put the bits back together for you if you want!

 

[Platelet]

The only people who have problems with remapping are those that have never had it done.

Vehicles are limited electronically to meet environmental rules. Why not make the most of what can be.

I agree, my D2 with a none factory fitted engine with a remap makes quite a difference. My neighbours may disagree though

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[Bucket]

I've still got mine ... I can put the bits back together for you if you want!

Excellent, I can use them to build the 'Ley line Detector ' I'm designing..