PVC on display at the NEC....too cheap?

[chrisjones69]

Browsing the Motorhome show at the NEC Yesterday.
Nearly all the PVC's were priced between 70 and 80 K.
The layouts were almost identical - with only minor variations.
Except one.
The Auto-trail Expedition 67. Pretty similar layout to many others, BUT over 15K cheaper than it's nearest rival.
I gave the van a really good look over and failed to see any obvious difference in quality, with many of the fittings - cooker, sink, bathroom, etc almost identical to those in other vans. Same base unit of Fiat Ducato as the others too.
It seems a really good deal.
I am very tempted to go for this van. Am i missing something?. Why that huge disparity in price?.
Surely no amount of "extras" the other vans might have had could amount to 15K?

What is PVC?

 

[chrisjones69]

Browsing the Motorhome show at the NEC Yesterday.
Nearly all the PVC's were priced between 70 and 80 K.
The layouts were almost identical - with only minor variations.
Except one.
The Auto-trail Expedition 67. Pretty similar layout to many others, BUT over 15K cheaper than it's nearest rival.
I gave the van a really good look over and failed to see any obvious difference in quality, with many of the fittings - cooker, sink, bathroom, etc almost identical to those in other vans. Same base unit of Fiat Ducato as the others too.
It seems a really good deal.
I am very tempted to go for this van. Am i missing something?. Why that huge disparity in price?.
Surely no amount of "extras" the other vans might have had could amount to 15K?

Just found out we always called them Tin Tops. Whoever dreamed up PVC is an idiot.

 

[Peppadog]

The saying is true. “The correct price for a product is what the market will stand”.

The UK market has been standing for it. Born out of product shortages post covid.

That time is over. Second hand values are reverting to post 2020 levels and new ‘van sales are slowing. New prices will reflect that soon enough.

I sold my old Hymer for not much less than I paid for it four years earlier in ‘22, and replaced it with a 2.1/2 year old Sunlight pvc, which I’d never heard of! at a very good price, because we liked the slightly more simple open layout, then spent £5k or thereabouts turning into the van we wanted.
Its worked out well.

 

[carolyn]

The thing I've always been too tight to buy is a Merc are they that much better or not? That being said it's the same with clothes no labels on my stuff apart from m and s and Primark!

M&S undies are the best of course, quality at a modest price! I’ve just realised I’m sitting here head to toe in M&S except for my slippers. They’re fancy Moshulu, the Mercedes of slippers

 

[Plumberz]

Browsing the Motorhome show at the NEC Yesterday.
Nearly all the PVC's were priced between 70 and 80 K.
The layouts were almost identical - with only minor variations.
Except one.
The Auto-trail Expedition 67. Pretty similar layout to many others, BUT over 15K cheaper than it's nearest rival.
I gave the van a really good look over and failed to see any obvious difference in quality, with many of the fittings - cooker, sink, bathroom, etc almost identical to those in other vans. Same base unit of Fiat Ducato as the others too.
It seems a really good deal.
I am very tempted to go for this van. Am i missing something?. Why that huge disparity in price?.
Surely no amount of "extras" the other vans might have had could amount to 15K?

What you dont see is that Autotrail are really struggling, work 4 days a week reduced lines and keep laying people off as not selling enough vans to warrant the yard and factory space running 24/7

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[DT]

Prices will continue to fall especially after the upcoming budget.

 

[Coolcats]

6 months wages to some

or about 10 hours salary for others

Tufan Erginbilgic , CEO of Rolls Royce, earned £13.61 million in FY 2023-24.

 

[Hawkstone]

Just found out we always called them Tin Tops. Whoever dreamed up PVC is an idiot.

Also known as whoosh bangs

 

[Coolcats]

The thing I've always been too tight to buy is a Merc are they that much better or not? That being said it's the same with clothes no labels on my stuff apart from m and s and Primark!

But who really pays for the ‘cheap’ clothing….and we wonder why people want to migrate to the U.K. for a better life when they only get paid 1p an hour to make the clothes we wear

 

[Nanniemate]

or about 10 hours salary for others

Tufan Erginbilgic , CEO of Rolls Royce, earned £13.61 million in FY 2023-24.

They were parked next to me wild camping the other week . Wouldn't pay campsite rates

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[Coolcats]

Just found out we always called them Tin Tops. Whoever dreamed up PVC is an idiot.

Genius rather an idiot, they tend not to leak like a conversion, small enough to park o. A drive or car parking spot what’s not to like

 

[Pausim]

Genius rather an idiot, they tend not to leak like a conversion, small enough to park o. A drive or car parking spot what’s not to like

I love my converted panel van but PVC is a cheap plastic. Why not call them CPVs? OK CPV has other uses as well but not as universally used as PVC is for Polyvinyl Chloride.

 

[steve69]

What is PVC?

Panel Van Conversion.
Jim has kindly provided links for these acronyms and if you click on the PVC (highlighted in blue) in my original post it should re-direct you to a fuller explanation.

 

[Hawkstone]

Browsing the Motorhome show at the NEC Yesterday.
Nearly all the PVC's were priced between 70 and 80 K.
The layouts were almost identical - with only minor variations.
Except one.
The Auto-trail Expedition 67. Pretty similar layout to many others, BUT over 15K cheaper than it's nearest rival.
I gave the van a really good look over and failed to see any obvious difference in quality, with many of the fittings - cooker, sink, bathroom, etc almost identical to those in other vans. Same base unit of Fiat Ducato as the others too.
It seems a really good deal.
I am very tempted to go for this van. Am i missing something?. Why that huge disparity in price?.
Surely no amount of "extras" the other vans might have had could amount to 15K?

My hubby and I took a good look at many of them, some very nice ideas inside. My daughter has just bought a 21 plate Boxer to convert so we picked up some ideas for her too. DIY is so popular with the younger generation now, they can’t afford the prices of the brands. They obviously will never command the resale value if a branded conversion but a very affordable way to have your own.

 

[Terry]

Panel Van Conversion is very different to a Coach built van or A class simply put everything on a A class and Coach built is basically put on/into the van before wall and sides/ roof go onto the base. On a PVC everything has to go inside a basic empty van. You need a more skilled work force. Manufacturers simply did not have skilled people say 10/ 15 years ago to make them at cheap costs - Since then they have come up with all sorts of way to make manufacturing cheaper needing less skilled people to make vans such as utilising pre made moulded sides etc along with this comes the pre-made internal furniture that needs very little or no “fitting to walls etc”simply put into place and fixed. Now because things have become simpler/ready bench made they don’t need the skills base.
Hope this explains how vans have become cheaper

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[Coolcats]

My hubby and I took a good look at many of them, some very nice ideas inside. My daughter has just bought a 21 plate Boxer to convert so we picked up some ideas for her too. DIY is so popular with the younger generation now, they can’t afford the prices of the brands. They obviously will never command the resale value if a branded conversion but a very affordable way to have your own.

You are right and there are many conversion kits VW transporters are a key market as well

 

[Hawkstone]

You are right and there are many conversion kits VW transporters are a key market as well

My daughter did a T5 as her first project. Lots of lessons learnt.

 

[Garry - June]

What can you put into a van for £25000?It already has a body, an engine, a gearbox and all the innards.
The article does state that to fit out the 640LE for a family of 4 would cost a further €5035 but that's a long way from £25000.

We looked at a Malibu at the NEC... Thought that looks a good van at the advertised £90500.... then looked at the blurb just below that .... "Van as seen with optional extras £132000" ...Wow, £42,000 that's about 45% more than the basic price !! .. Jaw hit floor...turned around and walked away laughing..

 

[vanfan]

We traded in a 12 year old Autotrail 7.5m
coach built for a new Sunlight 6m PVC and haven’t looked back!
We had no issues with the build quality of the Autotrail even though I’ve read some disparaging comments about them being leaky etc, no damp in ours!
We just found it too big and cumbersome.
The Sunlight, which I believe is an entry level van suits us fine.
Interior doesn’t feel quite as solid as the old van but I think it’s comparable with others we looked at that were £20,000 more and we looked at a lot, new and used including the Autotrail Expedition which we ruled out because we wanted a transverse bed over garage.
Every thing feels lighter, but we can pack everything we need including 2 folding bikes in the garage and all my M&S clothes and still a little under weight!
It’s nippy (automatic) a doddle to park and drive almost anywhere and we can’t wait to get down to Spain in it in January!
We don’t care it has a palm tree logo instead of some of the more desirable names and makes, the money we saved mean more trips!
The only downside is no one waves at us anymore

 

[Hawkstone]

We traded in a 12 year old Autotrail 7.5m
coach built for a new Sunlight 6m PVC and haven’t looked back!
We had no issues with the build quality of the Autotrail even though I’ve read some disparaging comments about them being leaky etc, no damp in ours!
We just found it too big and cumbersome.
The Sunlight, which I believe is an entry level van suits us fine.
Interior doesn’t feel quite as solid as the old van but I think it’s comparable with others we looked at that were £20,000 more and we looked at a lot, new and used including the Autotrail Expedition which we ruled out because we wanted a transverse bed over garage.
Every thing feels lighter, but we can pack everything we need including 2 folding bikes in the garage and all my M&S clothes and still a little under weight!
It’s nippy (automatic) a doddle to park and drive almost anywhere and we can’t wait to get down to Spain in it in January!
We don’t care it has a palm tree logo instead of some of the more desirable names and makes, the money we saved mean more trips!
The only downside is no one waves at us anymore

I will wave

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[SpeedyDux]

When I was at Tavira, I managed to obtain a copy of the annual French 'Camping Car' magazine that lists just about every continental PVC.

A straw poll of some of the prices in there would indicate that either, (or both) the manufacturers and)or the dealers are pulling the pants down of every potential UK buyer.
Compare the below prices, new for a Malibu PVC
View attachment 967517

View attachment 967518

The UK always pays a premium for RHD.

 

[Nanniemate]

I will wave

And me but not sure you'll wave back to my old van

 

[Hawkstone]

And me but not sure you'll wave back to my old van

I wave at horse boxes and Tesco delivery vans so don’t worry

 

[SpeedyDux]

It is interesting looking at a big variety of vans/pricepoints and in particular...at the quality of fittings/furniture etc. From looking at a fair few the other day...there seemed to be little difference between a €55k or €85k moho. My wife and I had agreed that to swap ours, it would have to come with the points we like about ours (twin beds, plenty of storage, garage, diesel heating etc) but mainly that the whole 'feel' would have to be considerably higher quality than ours. They all seemed to have ikea type door hinges...£3 a pair stuff. Very similar carcassing etc etc. Fit and finish looked rushed on many of them.

What drew me to buy a Rapido Van was the company having begun as furniture makers. I am not saying that corners haven't been cut in parts of the conversion but the kitchen unit especially has a high quality fit and finish to it.

 

[Terry]

The UK always pays a premium for RHD.

Why ? Don’t you think vans are a massive market in the Uk? Manufacturers know this and it will make little or no difference to the price of a van to the vehicle manufacturer.
They offer large discount on vehicles to anyone who buys a set large amount of vans ie motorhome makers.It’s only us as individuals that pay retail prices.

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[SpeedyDux]

Genius rather an idiot, they tend not to leak like a conversion, small enough to park o. A drive or car parking spot what’s not to like

If you are unfortunate enough to crash, occupants of a PVC will probably have better chances of emerging unscathed than occupants of a coachbuilt especially many A-Class ones. There are horrendous photos of comprehensively demolished coachbuilts on the interwebby. Stay safe!

 

[SpeedyDux]

Why ? Don’t you think vans are a massive market in the Uk? Manufacturers know this and it will make little or no difference to the price of a van to the vehicle manufacturer.
They offer large discount on vehicles to anyone who buys a set large amount of vans ie motorhome makers.It’s only us as individuals that pay retail prices.

Commercial Vans are a massive market. PVCs are a niche market and converters don't place orders for tens of thousands each year. The RHD ones for the UK conversion market are going to be a very small fraction of the overall number. More like hundreds than thousands, and that includes a lot of options that the UK White Van Man doesn't need or want. RHD vans are probably coming off the assembly lines in relatively small batches compared to LHD ones. The number of RHD vans with paint finishes other than Van Man White is a tiny percentage so other colours are done separately in small batches and that adds to cost and delays. Some Fiat colours have got a bad reputation for the paint quality including the notorious flaking roof paint. It might be OK for builders who are less fussy than us.

Hence we get very long lead times for MHs with multiple base vehicle options and body colours to suit individual buyers. I placed an Order in October (NEC) for delivery in the following April that eventually stretched to June handover. That was before Covid when things really went to pot.

Fiat used to have 85% of the market for conversions and it was their policy to target this leisure market with specs to suit converters. After they became part of Stellantis that priority seems to have changed. Now they have only about half the MH market so we can't expect Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen to go the extra mile to defend a dwindling market share. We are a very small part of the overall Stellantis customer base.

 

[TwistNShout]

If you're commuting 50 miles a day 5 days a week it's nice to have a comfortable, ergonomically correct vehicle. But many cars offer that.

This has always been my mantra, I want a comfortable car which I can drive for a couple of hours (or more) and not get out crippled. Not worried about the badge, though saying that I've had quite a few Volvos and Fords before settling on Jags.

 

[Joethejoiner]

There’s a few panel vans that are cheap now- Benimar are doing cheap Pvs now also Joa ?

Bought my Benivan 5 years ago . Basically same as other much more expensive vans . But Benivan had solar , gas tank and remis blinds .
Have changed batteries, shitty 70ah lead acid . To be fair it lasted 5years . That's about it .
Small fold down table fell off last night mind you . Possibly wine related !

 

[PaulW2]

Commercial Vans are a massive market. PVCs are a niche market and converters don't place orders for tens of thousands each year. The RHD ones for the UK conversion market are going to be a very small fraction of the overall number. More like hundreds than thousands, and that includes a lot of options that the UK White Van Man doesn't need or want. RHD vans are probably coming off the assembly lines in relatively small batches compared to LHD ones. The number of RHD vans with paint finishes other than Van Man White is a tiny percentage so other colours are done separately in small batches and that adds to cost and delays. Some Fiat colours have got a bad reputation for the paint quality including the notorious flaking roof paint. It might be OK for builders who are less fussy than us.

Hence we get very long lead times for MHs with multiple base vehicle options and body colours to suit individual buyers. I placed an Order in October (NEC) for delivery in the following April that eventually stretched to June handover. That was before Covid when things really went to pot.

Fiat used to have 85% of the market for conversions and it was their policy to target this leisure market with specs to suit converters. After they became part of Stellantis that priority seems to have changed. Now they have only about half the MH market so we can't expect Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen to go the extra mile to defend a dwindling market share. We are a very small part of the overall Stellantis customer base.

I may be wrong but seem to recall that the UK motorhome market is maybe 1/5 the size of the German one and maybe half the size of the French one. Then add all the other European countries.

Rounding up, maybe the UK is about 10% of the European motorhome sales?

Then take into account that at least some buyers purchase locally manufactured and marketed products. In the UK maybe half of PVC sales?

So possibly 1 in 20 of the vans produced in Europe are done to RHD spec.

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